Bus 9 - Donkey Cart departing soon, all aboard with ivf, pcos, endo, sub/unexplained fertility jump on

[Marvellouslymadmum]

New thread 😊😊

Seems like a wise plan @Misty84. Well done for not laughing when he mentioned the cost - ha! Thanks for the extra luck too.

If we go down the injections route (very likely) I’ll remember that thank you @OrangeBengal hope next Friday goes well and you have some fun bank holiday weekend plans!

hope everyone enjoys the long weekend!!

No worries @Alexis7890. I forgot it was bank holiday, so no plans here, hoping everyone else was a little more organised!

@OrangeBengal I think they think it will slightly increase my chances, which is what the stats say anyway. I wouldn't have gone with two a few months ago, but after two have failed, I'm getting nearer to 40 each month, and the odds of these lesser quality two taking seems slim to me. The other reason is that this is my last funded NHS transfer and I don't see any point in paying them £1500 for my final FET when the embryo may not survive the thaw anyway, and we need that money for private meds really for the next EC.

I haven't thought about ERA because I do natural modified transfers, and someone on the EMMA/ALICE/ERA thread told me it's really a test that's useful for medicated FETs. Have you considered a natural transfer? Or are your hormones too unpredictable?

Not sure what the max is for us, but we only really have the money for two private cycles so we're going to get an Access package and pay for that in the autumn. I suspect that may be our lot, that and getting DH's varicocele embolised, just in case that makes a difference.

Similar to what @Sunbird24 said, the key for me is having tried I guess. I'm already resigning myself to it not working with each failed cycle.

@Alexis7890 I took letrozole but I seem to ovulate naturally. So it didn't work, it made me cycles slightly shorter probably, ovulation was earlier. There's lots of good YT videos on the injections, after the first one and with an ice pack we were fine.

@Misty84 It's really tough how IVF just isn't the answer for lots of us, it seems. Makes me sad they don't put more effort and research into finding out why it fails.

We're trying naturally this month. I know there's zero chance it'll work but it's so hard not to hope. I know it hasn't deep down, same old cycle, no change, but at least I can transfer next cycle. Doesn't feel like that will work either tbh.

Bank holiday wise I'm chilling out, applying for a job, and nosing at the new neighbours moving in with their baby and small kid

That’s really interesting @thislittlebird, if our unknown one is good I’ll have a 4BB and 4BC left. I’ll bring up the double with the clinic, but the advice might be different as they’ll know if the embryos are euploid or not.

Our second transfer started off natural, but in the blood test pre-transfer they realised my progesterone was too low, so added Lubion in and then later oestrogen. It’s strange actually as on that cycle it took one daily 25mg Lubion injection to get my level up over 150 (after I’d ovulated naturally) and this time without natural ovulation, 50mg of Lubion only got me to 79, they added in an additional 800mg of cyclogest daily in the end, which meant the levels were great, though coming off all that was intense!

Something new I’m thinking about doing is fertility acupuncture. I’ve been wary about it previously as it seems to help if there a delays menstruating, but I’m unsure what it does if this isn’t an issue, I’m not sure I could handle my cycles changing! Anyone had a good experience?

@OrangeBengal yeah if they know they’re euploid it’s probably different.

I’m going to ask for a pre-transfer blood test, they didn’t do one last time. It was a lot of nonsense but they kept saying it wasn’t standard, then they had an IT failure and then by the time they sorted it my period was due and had started :/

I started acupuncture last February. I enjoy it, I think it helped sort my periods out (they’d got very light and short for a while) at most, at worst I don’t think it can do any harm. It’s just sort of relaxing and gives me someone neutral to talk to. I haven’t been since my first failed transfer though, for cost reasons and just feeling like nothing will work for us.

I hear you @thislittlebird and completely emphasise. I think if I do the acupuncture I’ll feel like I’m doing all I can do to help. My friend has been trying to get me to see a naturopath for while, so if the acupuncture doesn’t seem to work I might add that in too. From what I gather naturopath’s look at the whole, so they provide massage and reflexology, therapy, nutrition advice and some medical advice too I think. I’ve not been yet as it seemed pretty bogus, but now almost anything seems worth a try.

Have all your treatment plans been the same, is there something you could change there? We’ve tried natural (no oestrogen or progesterone), which then we had to change to natural modified by adding in both progesterone and oestrogen, then we did a kind of stims plan where I was on menopur, gonasi and an ovitrelle trigger (it was supposed to naturally increase progesterone levels by growing multiple follicles), with the fresh cycle and the last transfer being more standard medicated. Even if you don’t change do insist that they do bloods a couple of days pre-transfer and couple of days post-transfer in case something isn’t looking right.

@OrangeBengal you should definitely give it a go, or anything else, sometimes it’s good to feel like you’re doing something. These things can’t hurt to try 🤷‍♀️

Yeah, same plans. They wanted me to do medicated but I had to point out to them I suffer from hormonal migraines. I’m not supposed to take oestrogen via the pill or other things. So it kinda irked me that I had to raise it and no one asked if I should be having a medicated cycle at all. Anyway, since then I’ve stuck to natural modified (can’t do natural with my progesterone levels) and will continue unless a doctor suggests medicated is an option. I’m not convinced it is with my history. Will definitely push for bloods!

Had a family wedding yesterday and a newborn was there, I steered well clear, as we had expected to have a newborn there too. Found it so painful to look and imagine what could’ve been.
Instead I got absolutely blind drunk🙄

@thislittlebird I know this may sounds foolish but I really have hope for your double transfer.

@OrangeBengal I did fertility acupuncture for about a year, I quite enjoyed it but I’ve had to stop because of cost.

Thanks @thislittlebird and all booked in, so we’ll see!

How were the stats for your fresh cycle? The stims plan didn’t work for me, but if your fresh round looked ok, it might be an alternative to natural modified if you ever just want an alternative that won’t set your migraines off.

@Misty84 hope you managed to enjoy the wedding and not have too much of a hangover!

We went to the zoo today as it closes next weekend and wanted to go one more time as I went so much through my childhood, loved it but never the easiest when it’s full of people with their babies and children!

@Misty84 totally makes sense to get smashed! Hope you’re feeling better today. I have new next door neighbours with a baby and toddler. I feel a bit sick tbh, just the idea of seeing them every day having the things I cant have stings.

Same with me and acupuncture. We’ve had to put the money into other things lately and then it’ll be ivf soon.

You sound like you’ve got more hope than me lol! We tried naturally this month. Spotting/AF started today right on cue and I feel so gutted that it hasn’t worked, even though I know it won’t really, it never does work, we aren’t the lucky ones. It’s just so hard to keep doing this and keep failing, it’s been nearly three years of naturally trying and not a single BFP. Nothing from IVF either. I just can’t see a future where this will work for us right now.

@OrangeBengal do you mean do a fresh transfer after a cycle? Yeah I could, I just have high AMH for my age so I had a bit of a panic when they kept pushing me towards fresh in case I ended up with OHSS. I may try it next time just because none of this has worked to date so nothing to lose.

@Alexis7890 yeah that’s difficult. There’s people with their babies everywhere.

Oh @Misty84 that sucks re newborn. I have two second cousins born this year (born to younger family members) and they’re all over my family WhatsApp channel, some days I just can’t look at it. It was difficult spending time with them earlier in the year, but thankfully as they live in another part of the country I don’t need to see them often. I appreciate that you feel it much more keenly though.

@thislittlebird the treatment plan for one of my transfers was like a fresh cycle in that the ovaries were stimulated, but the transfer itself was a FET. I think it was an usual approach. My AMH is high too, so as long as they know that the dosage should just be able to be modified accordingly. I think that’s why they use Menopur rather than something like Pergoveris.

My next door neighbours are only 6-7 weeks away from their due date with their 4th. I’m hoping to have moved house before then.

@Misty84 @OrangeBengal @thislittlebird I get the surrounded thing. Next door got pregnant and had child while we're still trying. See them all the time. It hurts. People constantly share kiddie photos and videos on social media and whenever we see friends it's with kids in tow. Hurts a lot!

I'm now getting high readings on my clear blue digital OPKs so 🤞 my body is resetting and I'll be ovulating soon

@MIW01 Fingers crossed for this cycle for you x

I was just in the garden bringing in my washing and heard the little kid talking to his dad and it's like a stabbing pain. I don't know how to deal with all of this anymore, it's never-ending. I think coming up to 3 years and our final nhs transfer is causing me more stress. Hopefully @Sunbird24 can move before another kid lands next door.

@OrangeBengal my nhs clinic weren't interested in modifying much really. As expensive as it is, I'm hoping my private clinic might have some ideas.

@MIW01, I’m really looking forward to when it doesn’t hurt! When we first became aware that there was something wrong, my younger sister announced she was pregnant with her second child. One of my husband’s friends named their first child a name we love. The majority of our friendship group has two children, with their first now school age. I always had a cut-off age, but that’s obviously a joke now!

@thislittlebird, yes private should be more willing to think outside of the box, plus you can be more insistent (or demanding, whichever you prefer)!

@OrangeBengal can’t be too demanding because it’s so expensive lolol.

I’ve got my prices for a private package, it always feels so harsh how much extra they charge for ICSI. I have no idea how many additional cycles to go for. We’d discussed two, this current one plus two private would make three, which is what NICE suggests. It’s such a headfuck.

Going through a cycle with my final embryos this month, need to book a consultation at the Lister soon I guess in case this cycle fails.

@Alexis7890 @OrangeBengal @Sunbird24 @MIW01 sounds like we all completely understand and experience the pain of being surrounded by others success with fertility! It absolutely sucks.

@thislittlebird I know there’s only a few months between when we started TTC (I was July 2019 and I think you were Oct 2019?), it’s madness to think we could easily have 2 kids by now if our bodies worked properly!!
I just think you’re capable of making blastocysts, that’s really incredible, why the hell shouldn’t one of those be your lucky one?? You’ve got 2 more embryos this round then a couple of private rounds- I just don’t see why it wouldn’t work for you. Only one of those has to transfer!!! 🙏 I know there’s no guarantees but Jesus, you’re really throwing everything at it here, you deserve it to work at some point.

Tell me about the expense of ICSI, IMSI was even more🙄
I wasn’t eligible for refund package so that was never an option for us (low amh strikes again) but do you think you’ll do that? It’s so much more than the 2 cycle multi package isn’t it…

Our next steps are follow up consultation with Faris next week (hope he’s just real with us) and then Ramsay booked in Oct.

@thislittlebird And there’ll be meds on top of those prices of course which are around £2k per round. Mental how expensive private is.

In hindsight I wish we’d thought about a refund package, but never mind now. I’m at The Evewell and I don’t think they offer them.

Choosing a package is definitely a tricky decision. I listen to the BFN podcast and a couple of weeks ago they had a guest on who said that according to ‘the stats’ couples give up too soon and if carrying on further are likely to get their child, obviously this peaked my interest, but it was said as a kind of aside, so no real details given, I’m going to try and follow it up and I’ll come back with what I find.

Re ICSI vs IVF @thislittlebird, have a real think about this. My clinic seemed to want to do ICSI as standard, but I was trying to hold on to any natural bit of the process and therefore we agreed to do 1:1, which as we got 11 in the end, meant 6 for ICSI and 5 for IVF, after testing it was the ICSI batch that had a couple of abnormals in there. As 3 eggs in our IVF batch were actually immature, the hit rate was really high, 100% if my ‘unknown’ comes back as euploid. With this in mind I think I’d push for 100% IVF if doing this again, regardless of my husband’s frag issues, which are probably better now then they were then.

What’s IMSI @Misty84?

@OrangeBengal IMSI is a step further than ICSI- the sperm is viewed at very high magnification. Rated red on HFEA so not enough evidence to support it, but we knew it was our last round that we could afford so trusted our consultant and paid for it. Waste of money really, as no blastocysts. But at least we tried.

Interesting what you say about couples giving up too soon. When is enough enough though? It’s so difficult. Definitely follow up if you find out anything further.

Looks like the stats will be kept secret as these are used for his company’s modelling - ttps://www.eu-startups.com/2022/02/london-based-gaia-raises-e17-68-million-to-redesign-access-to-fertility-care/

And thanks for the IMSI info @Misty84

Sorry to interrupt your ivf chats, does anyone have any advice for when people make comments/ask when you’re going to have a baby or the oh your turn next/when you have a baby etc? Going to a whole extended family event at the weekend and seeing them all again the following weekend at a wedding, immediate family know everything and extended don’t and I don’t want them to, they are the sort of family members who do and will comment and to make it worse all of my cousins that have recently had children (all children will also be at the wedding), it happened instantaneously for them which just digs the knife in even more! Just knowing we’re seeing them, makes me not even want to go and just sends anxiety levels through the roof dreading any comments, any suggestions welcome!!