abc IVF experience sharing - 2021/2022

[Millymillymillymillymilly]

Hey everyone,

I've benefited so much from the last 2 abc ivf threads that I thought I'd start a new one and hopefully can contribute back to the community.

I'm 33 years old, AFC around 24 (based on the initial treatment scan) and the reason we are doing IVF is due to male infertility issues (morphology lower than 4%) and irregular ovulation. We are undergoing treatment at the Harley Street branch.

Here's my treatment timeline so far:

09/11 Tue - Bemfola injection 125
10/11 Wed - Bemfola injection 125
11/11 Thu - Bemfola injection 125
12/11 Fri - Bemfola injection 125 + 1st scan
13/11 Sat - Bemfola injection 125
14/11 Sun - Bemfola injection 125 + Cetrotide injection
15/11 Mon - Bemfola injection 125 + Cetrotide injection +2nd scan
16/11 Tue - Bemfola injection 125 + Cetrotide injection
17/11 Wed - Cetrotide injection + 3rd scan + Ovitrelle injection (exact timing TBC)

After my 3rd scan today, the nurse said I didn't have to do anymore injections apart from morning Cetrotide shot and the Ovitrelle which someone from the Create clinic will call and let me know when to inject as it needs to fit into their egg retrieval appointments (I still haven't received the call and my scan was at 08.30 this morning).

My follicles' growth was as below:

1st scan
11 < 6mm
10 10 mm

2nd scan
2 < 6mm
12

@waitingmyturn Hey I'm okay thank you! Started Bemfola yesterday got my OH to do it for me and bless he was great! I was worrying for nothing!

Just had my second one this evening and feeling quite bloated already - is this normal after just 2 injections?

Have you heard anything back yet?

Anyone else have any other updates this cycle? Hope you're all doing ok!

@star2022 I think I was quite bloated quickly but I stopped noticing after the first few days, how's it going for you?

No still waiting frustratingly, I've phoned today and again been passed around 3 people (having to explain to each one why I'm having to phone back again) and told someone will phone me before next week, it's going on far too long now and trying to pin somebody down to talk to has been impossible, I'm devastated to say that as up-to the test date everyone had been brilliant, so welcoming and just the other end of the phone from me, since then has been a totally different story, it's an emotional time anyway but I'm really disappointed.

Hey everyone,

I am new to Mumsnet and can I join the chat please? Would be great to have your support and share our experience here. It's such a difficult process both mentally and physically.

We had a failed 1st cycle with ABC London last year and are just about to finish the 2nd cycle. I am 34, AFC 31, so have some PCO, low BMI so high risk of OHSS and had to freeze all with both cycles.

First cycle, 19 eggs collected, 15 mature, 14 fertilized with ICSI, 13 day 3 embryos and mostly grade 1 8 cells, and then told NONE of them made it through to blast on day 5/6. Transferred the only day 3 embryo they saved earlier on, chemical pregnancy. They said we have server male factor and recommended donor sperm.

2nd cycle with donor sperm, 14 eggs collected, only 6 fertilized with IVF, all 6 were grade 1 embryos on day 3, then again only 1 made to day 5 which is a 4CC. TBH I didn't have a great feeling from the start as the fertilization rate is low that usually indicates immature eggs and I don't have any 8 cells embryos this time. Should be arranging FET this week but I haven't and am not convinced it will stick at all.

So in total 33 eggs and out of 18 grade 1 day 3 embryos, only 1 4CC blastocyst!

I was told by Create up to day 3 is more egg issue and between day 4 and 5 is more sperm issue but our results from two cycles are not much different and still no good quality blastocyst even with perfect donor sperm. It says on Create's lab report to me below 35 years old, it's 40-60% blast rate and we are like 0-20%. They also told me at the beginning of the 2nd cycle that they wanted to reduce the number of eggs collected to improve the quality, though I did have fewer eggs this time, the quality is actually a lot worse than last time. So not sure if there is any actual science behind or I am just very unlucky......

@Millymillymillymillymilly

Do you mind I ask what do you think of CRGH so far? I actually had a consultation with their consultant after the 1st cycle for a 2nd opinion but decided to give ABC 2nd go since we decided to go with donor sperm ( I thought we are going to be an easy case but I am totally wrong!) CRGH has a lot more injections/medications and also have to down regulation before start stimulation while the process is a lot easier and shorter with ABC. Also heard we will have injections and blood tests even for FET. Plus the nurses at ABC are really nice.

With CRGH cycle, would you say the quality of blastocysts is better than the ones with ABC cycle?

@Piaopiao Hello. Not at all, happy to share.

At first I wasn’t too happy with all the additional medications I had to take with CRGH. Extra pills and shots. And some of their nurses are less friendly than the ones at abc (not sure is it because I’m there via NHS and not private).

However, I’m very happy with the end results:

abc - retrieved 11 eggs with x3 day 5 blastocysts
CRGH - retrieved 12 eggs with x6 day 5 blastocysts

Also, I noticed, during my stim to before the fresh transfer with abc, my womb lining thickness has changed (became slightly thinner but still thick enough for transfer) The nurse did not comment on it at all and still booked the embryo transfer whereas with CRGH, the consultant noticed it happening again and said even though the lining is still thick enough but the fact that the lining changed its thickness meant it may be unstable hence it’s probably best if we went for the frozen transfer instead.

So currently I’m injecting again to prep myself for the frozen transfer. :)

I’m definitely happy with CRGH but we probably couldn’t have afford them if it weren’t for the NHS. Also, every cycle is different. It might also be that I was on the supplements a lot long longer when I started my cycle with CRGH. Personally, I think the supplements did work for me.

Hope everything goes well for you!

@Millymillymillymillymilly

Great news on the blast rate and fingers crossed for your FET! You have so many in the freezer, it only takes one!

I am trying to prepare myself for moving to CRGH and the thoughts of a lot more injections on the way. My DH is also really concerned about the down regulation process as it's basically putting me on temp menopause with lots of side effect. I am on the low side of BMI so don't have many injection sites unfortunately.

How many injections we will have to do for FET at CRGH? I also heard at CRGH, they constantly check E2 level during FET cycle and I don't think we have any blood test or injection for FET with ABC. What are the supplements you have been taking?

@Piaopiao Here’s hoping🤞🤞🤞

I had to take norethisterone and then started on buserelin about a week and a bit ago. Depending on how my scan goes on Wednesday, they will tell me the other drugs I need to start taking (there’s boxes of other drugs, patches, pills and suppositories

The things we have to do to become a mum eh?🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, I’ve had blood tests each time with the scan. Because I was on the NHS, I did my weekday scans ans blood test at UCLH and weekend scans and blood I did it at CRGH. It’s a lot easier at CRGH because the blood test room is next door whereas at UCLH the scans and blood tests are done in different buildings.

Can you ask to inject at a different site? I know the thigh area can be injected as well, even the bum I think.

@Piaopiao

And supplement-wise, recommend you reading ‘It starts with an egg’ - it’s a good read for the various supplements that you can take.

I’ve been taking prenatal, vitamin D, Q10, vitamin B complex, inositol.

Hello! I've just had a 3bb transferred into me on day 5 and feeling a bit worried about the grade! The doctor said it was good but i'm suspicious :( Also got a 5bc to freeze. Does anyone know much about grades? Did anyone have any luck with grades that weren't AA/AB/BA? Thanks

@Millymillymillymillymilly

Hey,

Thanks so much for sharing! Yeah have to say the process with ABC is so easy. CRGH's FET process is more complicated than ABC's stimulation process. lol

I have seen other ladies posting and there are more injections even after FET up to 12 weeks....Honestly not looking forward to my 3rd cycle treatment but like you said, things we have to do! I just don't have much fat on me, tried thigh once and it really hurts and had to change back to belly area. I can't even use the injection needle in the cetrotide box, it's too long for me and had to ask for the smallest needles from the nurses.

I just booked a consultation with CRGH for the 8th of March and let's see what is my new treatment protocol. Fingers crossed for your FET and hope it all goes smoothly.

@friendlyBadger

Hey,

BB grade embryos is good to fair quality so please don't worry. I would be more than happy to transfer a B grade embryo but sadly mine is 4CC which is actually poor with very few cells.

There are lots of successful stories with B grade embryo or even C grade embryo and sometimes perfect A grade embryos just don't implant for no obvious reasons. I read a paper that says if a C grade embryo is still growing, it might well turn into a higher grade embryo on the next day and once it implants, it makes no different to the higher grade embryos but it can also go the other way either stop growing or higher chance of not surviving thaw.

Actually I decided not to transfer my embryo not just because of the quality itself, it's because my blast rate is so low (1 out of 5 plus poor quality, I used donor sperm which was perfect quality) makes me really worried that the general quality for the eggs collected this time is just not good and not mature enough. I also have a day 3 grade 1 10 cells in the freezer from this cycle, if both FET fail I will lose another 6 months. So I thought I could just do another cycle with a different clinic and can always come back to these two embryos if I need to later on.

Fingers cross for your embryo transferred!

Hi all sorry I've been MIA been such an overwhelming week that I just didn't expect!

So to cut a long story short, I started on Bemfola 150 last week Monday and my first scan was booked in for Friday morning. So there I was expecting some small follicles nicely growing, to only find the nurse going quiet as she did my scan. Turns out, after just 4 days of stims I had 2 dominant follicles already at 15/16mm 😳 and one smaller one at 7mm - obviously not what I wanted to hear at all especially after having 15 follicles at my baseline ultrasound.

Does anyone know if this means I responded poorly to Bemfola? Or did i respond too well too quickly? Was it too high for me? Can't find any info on this at all as its unheard of.

Anyway, she said we'd need to book egg collection as they didn't want to risk losing those 2 dominant follicles. My anxiety was through the roof as you can imagine as i wasn't prepared for it to happen so quick and I kept thinking are they even going to be mature having only stimmed for less than a week!?

I was told to start cetrotide that evening, and my trigger was planned for Sunday 21:30pm.

My egg collection was yesterday and they were able to retrieve 2 eggs as planned which of course I was grateful for but still really disheartened that there's only 2. I've started antibiotics for 3 days and have begun my progesterone pessaries too.

On top of this, my OH sample yesterday was showing low motility but the embryologist said it's still within the range for ivf and that icsi won't be necessary. So all night we both tossed and turned thinking maybe we should have just pushed for icsi? Anyway, we had the call this morning that both eggs had been fertilised thankfully and they have now booked us for transfer on friday which is a 3 day fresh transfer. If they make it to the 3 days, one will be transferred and the other they will leave for 5 days and then freeze.

To say its been an overwhelming week full of anxiety is an understatement. I'm still on edge expecting the worse and thinking we will turn up on friday and they will say they didn't make it. I really didn't think it would be this hard so i commend anyone who's been through this journey several times!

Hope my journey helps anyone reading, and anyone deciding on abc to go for it as the service has been incredible. To be honest, i've only actually had 1 blood test done at abc and all my appointments and scans have been with Create anyway.

Hope you're all getting on okay whatever part of the process you are at!

Thanks so much @Piaopiao. That's really interesting about how a C grade can improve quality. That's really frustrating about your blast rate. Do you know what size the follicles were when you triggered? I've heard of people responding differently to different protocols so hopefully CRGH will be much better for you.

@star2022 I'm afraid i don't really know but i would have guessed that they might be able to grow them more evenly with different drug protocols? Or I'm guessing some clinics might have let the dominant ones over ripen in order to get more of the smaller follicles? that's just my guess. i only really had 2 follicles that were growing on my first 2 scans. I was a slow responder so they upped me to 225 for the rest of the round (collection was day 14) and this made 5 more grow (although I ended up with 4 mature eggs in the end). It's frustrating you only got 2 eggs but good that they were both mature and both fertilized. Hopefully it's quality over quantity! Good luck 🤞

@star2022 congrats on the two fertilised, that's promising! How are you feeling?

Not sure on the drugs either I'm afraid but something to phone and ask the nurse maybe? What dose of Bemfola were you on? Maybe if you needed to do it again they could start you slower on a lower dose?

Had my consultation to start again in March and they're changing me from Bemfola to menapur? (Spelling might not be right on that) from what I can see online it helps with the maturing of the eggs but could lower the overall number of eggs, so again if you needed to do it again it seems different medication is an option too

@star2022 I actually had my nhs consultation today (in case my abc round fails) and they were talking about wanting me to take buserelin to down regulate before starting stims because it switches off the ovaries and means the follicles grow at the same time when the stims start (so in theory should get more eggs). My NHS protocol is the long protocol whereas I think we did short protocol with ABC. Anyway hopefully you won't need to think about future rounds but thought I'd share just in case it was helpful/reassuring! All the best

Hi everyone, sorry haven't been on here for a while. I wondered how long everyone had to wait for their medication to be sent out? I paid the remaining fees on Tuesday and they said the pharmacy would be in contact within the next few days. Haven't hear anything and af is due in a week... Should I chase? 🤔

@star2022 Sorry to hear you've had such a stressful time. I can only imagine how worried you were when they said they just got 2. Was so delighted when you said they were both nature and both fertilised. It only takes one 🤞 Keeping everything crossed that you have one for the freezer as well x

@Mazzaroo2022 not sure if it's different in different clinics but the nurse I spoke to said if I hadn't heard off the company within 48 hours to give her a ring and she'd contact them? Might be worth chasing up just incase.

@waitingmyturn thank you. I rang and ending up being on hold for 30 mins. Then they said someone would call me back which they did, but they said the prescription had only just been sent! Probably because I rang in the first place. First delivery slot I could get is Wednesday so lucky I chased or I would potentially have to delay another month. Can't say I've had a great experience on the treatment call either. But hopefully things will improve.

@Mazzaroo2022 you're welcome! They've been a nightmare to get to on the phone for me recently but I'm glad they got back to you when they said they would, and thank god you did phone and got it all sorted 😊 here's to the next steps 😄

@friendlyBadger thanks for that info! yes its definitely an idea if I need to repeat the cycle didn't know about down regulation so its something I could definitely consider, thanks! How are you getting on in your 2WW? Will you be testing early?

@Mazzaroo2022 fingers crossed you can start soon! I didn't have any issues with my prescription - if anything they were trying to chase me and I kept missing their calls as I was at work. But glad you've got it sorted now! All the best with it! Do you know what meds you'll be starting on?

@waitingmyturn thank you that's also great advice! Hope you're doing okay? And I was on Bemfola 150. I went for my egg transfer yesterday, the only thing I found really nerve wracking was that they got me all gowned up and ready but I hadn't even had an update to let me know if the embryos were still ok (as I hadn't heard anything since finding out the 2 collected both fertilised) so i was a nervous wreck again lol.

Luckily, I had good news that both eggs were still going strong! One was a tiny bit better than the other so I had that transferred yesterday, so i'm officially PUPO! (pregnant until proven otherwise!) I also asked for a photo- to be honest I thought it was just routine that they gave it but apparently you have to request it in advance and i'm guessing there's an extra charge? But my Dr was so nice, he managed to give me a photo of my embaby ultrasound and one of my actual embryo too so I could see its cell division which was pretty surreal. OH was sad he wasn't able to come in, so i think the photo cheered him up.

So might be worth asking for one and they may give it to you!

Now the dreaded 2WW....

@friendlyBadger

Hey,

Looking back at my notes, I had 2 follicles at around 16mm and 7 smaller ones between 14 and 15mm on the day before the trigger shot (28 follicles in total). I didn't have a scan or blood test on the day of trigger shot but the day before and I was concerned that they were immature, the nurse said it's fine.....

I read the trigger shot should be given when 3 follicles reach 18mm, so I didn't have a good feeling about this cycle even before the egg collection and I don't think they got it right for me. My 1st cycle was a bit better, I had 3 follicles at 19mm, 18.6mm and 17.9 mm on the trigger shot day.

Did NHS by any chance explain to you the benefits of having down regulation? Create seems to be the only clinic don't have that. There are long protocol and short protocol with down regulation (check Millymilly's note with CRGH, I think that was a standard short protocol with down regulation), with ABC, it's short protocol and no down regulation.

The protocols are so different across clinics. My E2 level was 9000 during the 1st cycle, CRGH doctor said in that case, 15 eggs were just mature enough to perform ICIS but not actually all mature. If they were all mature, the E2 level will be over 16000 (so E2 1000 means one mature egg?). I was told by ABC, E2 level over 6000 is already at risk of OHSS but CRGH doctor said they can go ahead with fresh transfer with E2 level of 16000!

Also with ABC, we had FSH only stimulation, other clinics will use combined FSH and LH stimulation, so instead of 150 ui Bemfola, for example they might use 75 ui Ovaleap plus 75 ui Menopur and duel trigger shots (ABC only use 1 trigger shot).

@star2022 i really struggled the last few days of the 2ww and was convinced i was out because i had no symptoms at all (my sore boobs disappeared a few days ago) but I tested today (8dp5dt with a 3BB embryo) and i got a BFP on a frer! A bit worried the line isn't dark enough though (I've had a chemical in the past) but i have my blood test tomorrow morning so not long now :)

@Piaopiao
They said the reason for down regulation was to make sure my ovaries were completely asleep and no follicles were growing at all before starting stims. She also said that it ensures that certain follicles don't soak up all of the drugs. I think that means that the drugs get more evenly spread between the follicles? But not 100%...

Hope your 2wws are going well!!!

@friendlyBadger OMG congratulations!! That's amazing news! how are you feeling?? It gives us all hope so thank you for sharing your result! I'm a week away from testing and its driving me mad. I have no symptoms at all, I'm 6dp3dt so maybe still a bit early.

Just to update, of the 2 eggs i had retrieved, one was a Grade 1 transferred last week (3 day transfer as I only had 2 embryos) and the other one made it to 5 day blastocyst so we've managed to get 1 frozen. It's a grade 3AB which i'm really happy with considering I did think at one point I wouldn't have any! Now I just need this one to stick, but I'll be honest I don't feel very hopeful.

Hope you're all well!

Hi all, hope all of your cycles are going well. I had my egg collection today and was so impressed with the care I received. I was a bit apprehensive as I felt my treatment call was rushed (although I did flag this and they said it would be investigated as 15 .ins is far too short) and they were slow to sort out my prescription (definitely chase if you haven't heard anything from the pharmacy within 48 hours).

I'm taking it easy today but honestly don't have any pain so far, just quite bloated. I was told based on my amh they would get a max of 8-9 eggs even though I had 18 follicles at the end.... But in the end they got 12 eggs! So I'm really delighted.

@star2022 I started on Bemfola 150 as well but ended up taking it for agessss as they wanted smaller follicles to catch up to the bigger ones. I took it for 12 days in the end. Congratulations on the 2 embryos in the end. What a massively great result after 2 eggs. I really hope all goes well with testing, but if not you have that frosty 🤞🤞

@friendlyBadger Congratulations!!!! I live for these positive stories! So happy for you.

Did anyone find their hormones went a bit mad on the progesterone pessaries? I've been fine for the injections but have heard the pessaries are worse and am a little worried. Any experience / advice would be appreciated x

Hi all do they test for covid before egg collection - just worried incase I catch covid and have to cancel or do u have to bring a neg test or anything ! The stress !

@Carolineanne They didn't at ABC St.Paul's. You just had to fill in a covid questionnaire each time you came in and they checked your temperature. Fingers crossed you'll be ok. Is it soon? Good luck! X