Yo yo!! Calling all Ladybros over 30 TTC #1. Join the Berries aboard the Charabanc of lurrrve. Bring real Champagne, from the actual Champagne region. No Colombian builders allowed.

[happylass]

The small print:

The Berries have strict entrance criteria: TTC #1 for 12 months+, over 30, NO instadiffers, must have a special pimping pot and absolutely no mention of baby dust/dancing. Not that we're fussy

Current passengers

WildflowerMarmalade 40 - TTC for three years. FET done in June with immune treatments - waiting for result... Six embryos in the freezer after two freeze all cycles.

Minx 35 in August - TTC 2 years. Stage 4 endometriosis, both tubes blocked, 1 buried ovary, IVF booking in appt in July, hoping to start IVF soon after

Smidge 39, TTC since Jan '13. Unexplained. IVF#1 Short protocol July '14 BFN, IVF#2 Nov'14 and IVF#3 Feb '15 both Long protocol BFNs. High NK cell immune treatment. Natural FET in June '15, awaiting result.

Happylass, 37, TTC since Aug 2012. 2 failed ICSI cycles and 1 failed FET. Hoping to start long awaited NHS cycles in late August provided pesky smear test is sorted by then.

Beaky 35, ttc coming up 3 yrs, 2x failed iui 1x long protocol ivf cancelled 1 BFN following IVF

Tigerdog, 34 (soon to be 35) TTC since Jan 2013. Unexplained. IVF#1 May 2015 resulted in a chemical pregnancy. Now transferring clinics in the hope of a second round of IVF on the NHS and considering an NK cells biopsy in July/August.

barkingtreefrog 36, ttc 3.5 years. clomid bfp summer 2013 then mc @7 weeks, iui bfp summer 2014 then mc @6 weeks. Factor V leiden thrombophilia diagnosed at the repeat mc clinic. IUI bfn Jan 2015, IVF bfn April/May 2015. Currently awaiting nk cells results before a FET possibly in August/September.

Lumen, 35, ttc since Nov 2011, unexplained, two IVF cycles in 2014, both bfns, waiting for lap&dye and results of numerous bloods, aiming for one last IVF cycle.

Kuma - 40. TTC 2.5 years. Low AMH high FSH - DH antisperm ABs. Failed IVF June 14 and March 15. Looking to change clinic and try another natural cycle in June 2015.

Lucieloos, 35, TTC 18 months, low AMH & sperm motility. 1st ICSI in Czech Republic in April BFN.

Rain, 33 ttc since March 2012. unexplained. mystery bfp oct 13, MMC Nov 13. NHS IVF starting in June

Tiger that sounds like a good plan, new running shoes are always an incentive! I'm fine, just a bit nervous for the next scan on Saturday. I'm going to put the meditation track on shortly as it helps me chill.

Yes Barking how was the consultant appointment today?

clem don't get me started on whether you should run when ttc - I've ranted on and on about it on past threads...

I just need to purge my brain - I've spent almost 2 hours researching stuff after the clinic appointment and I'm about to explode and am not really any closer to a conclusion!
I won't even go into the IVF side of things, I'm trying to deal with one bit at a time and right now that's the immunology side of things. Any opinions very gratefully received!!

We were given lots of information including this paper which is pretty inconclusive but dates from 2008, so not that up to date.

In their own literature they say that up to two-thirds of early pregnancies miscarry (the highest figure I've heard) and chromosomal abnormalities are the major factor, but it mentions the possibility of the women's immune system compromising successful embryo implantation in the case of failed IVF or early miscarriage. The consultant stressed that the research is in the early stages and many possible treatments are not universally accepted.
They suggest that the following couples are at increased risk and should consider immune testing:
a) women over 35 who have had 2 mc or 2 failed IVF cycles
b) women under 35 who have had 3 mc or 3 failed IVF cycles
c) less than 6 eggs from an IVF cycle
d) unexplained infertility of over 3 years
e) previous pregnancies resulting in small babies
f) repeated mc while trying to have a 2nd child.

I can tick both 2 mc and 2 failed cycles in a), and d) as well, so seems like a good idea.

After research so far though, my conclusion is that CARE are expensive! From what I've read (I've now read a lot) the Nottingham clinic are the leaders in the field, and the consultant there worked closely with Chicago, but the consultant we saw works closely with the Nottingham bloke anyway...

These are the tests we've been recommended/quoted:

TH1:TH2 ratio abnormalities £590
C4/M2 variant £155
MTHFR £160
PAIP Gene Polymorphism £176
Auto Antibody Profile 1 £108
NK Panel £670

Just these add up to over £2000!!

The TH1:TH2 is apparently £350 at Lister rather than £590 at CARE which is a significant difference! (although I don't know whether you can just rock up for tests without paying for a consultation, and I don't particularly want to travel to London). This is one of the 'Chicago' tests though, so one that you can also get done yourself directly with the hospital cheaper, you just need to fedex your blood across. Haven't found all the details yet, that's a job for tomorrow...

The other level 2 /Chicago test is the NK Panel and I'm really torn on this one and could do with some advice - if my nk cells biopsy came back as 'normal' is there any point doing the nk blood test? I do understand they are different, but is it worth £670 if nothing showed up in the biopsy?

The treatment for the C4/M2 variant seems to be heparin - but I'm going to be on this anyway due to the factor v leiden thrombophilia, so it seems pointless getting tested if I'll be having the treatment either way?

And I haven't looked in PAIP Gene Polymorphism yet...

Rain congrats on your egg collection that's a brilliant number for you. Hope you get good fertilisation results tomorrow.

Barking, would your clinic be prepared to give you treatment for immunes just incase? I was going to have the tests but my clinic are giving me the treatment anyway so didn't see the point. I'm having prednisone, aspirin, clexane, gestone and intralipids.

Lucie, no, because of the possible side effects from drugs I might not need.
The heparin I'll be on anyway, but that only rules out one of the cheaper tests...

Ohh I was told they won't do any harm even if they don't do any good so worth a try.

barking literally no helpful advice from me other than to say wow, that's an expensive list of tests, especially when even the clinic is saying clinical evidence is thin on the ground so making an 'informed' decision is even harder. My default in the absence of that would be gut feel, but that's not very helpful for you!!! What does DH think?

Clinic have called, out of our 7 eggs 4 fertilised normally, phew!
I know statistically that's a good % (I think the benchmark they aim for nationally is 60%?) but it's still sad/disappointing to lose 3 already. I am sure you all understand what I mean!

barking
Those are a lot of tests! Have you thought about speaking to ARGC? They are the leading place for immunes, I think, but god they make you pay for it... We didn't end up going for our initial appointment with them, because the common theme on Fertility Friends was unless you've got £10k to spend to see it through, don't come here for IVF. But you could go to them for the immune diagnosis/testing and go elsewhere for treatment?

I'm having a similar thing to Lucie for this round - intralipids, pred and clexene. The doctor said the only risk from Intralipids is the minuscule risk of infection at the injection site, and while there is a small risk of birth defects or miscarriage when prednisolone is used throughout pregnancy, there is no risk when it is just used for a week around transfer (they start me on it 2 days before, and then continue until 5 days afterwards).

rain
Great news on the embies! When will they confirm the transfer date? Will you have 1 or 2 back?

clem
I ran up until I started stims, then switched to walking, because I was worried about ovarian torsion, but also just felt too uncomfortable to do anything. I remember running for the bus a few days before the last EC and it felt like I had a bag of potatoes in me! I've been trying to do as much walking as the weather will allow this time.

The scan yesterday showed 7 follies around the 10mm mark, with a couple at 7 that might catch up, and lots more at 6 that won't.
So most likely on for around 7 or 8. The only question for me is whether to do a fresh or frozen transfer.
The committee meeting to discuss on our NHS funding will be on the same day I'm due in for EC, although we won't know about the decision for 5 days. So we could freeze all of this lot and potentially go straight into another round if we get funding. But then we also risk paying for freezing to be told we haven't got funding.

all this discussion about tests is making my head spin (like normal). . barking hope your able to come to a decision soon.

I know the second we move to IVF (should it come to that), I will have to get upto speed on it all, but I think I'm actually trying not to start looking into it all just yet.

beaky/minx/seasame so I'm on CD26 today, as my last few cycles have been 35 days, I'm going to wait until then to test...only 9 more days

rain love the polo's idea...

tiger not symptom spotting is failing, as you'd expect , although currently all symptoms seem to be regular af due next week type symptoms...but we'll see.

That's good news Rain. I know what you mean about wanting them all to survive, but your survival rate is good. Willing them on to keep growing.

Barking it's a tricky one about the tests. There are no definitive answers, which doesn't help! If you don't go for the tests would you always be wondering 'what if...'? And if you would then is spending the £2000 worth it for peace of mind when you're 80 that you did all you could?

You ask a very good question about the womb NK cells and the bloods - I have no kind of an answer for you. Bluntly, there is no scientific grade proof of the NK cells theory - either blood or womb cells. There is no proper double-blind, large-scale trial proof for any of the immunes treatment.

On the other hand, all the clinics with the highest success rates use those treatments.

I think there is a difference between a treatment working in practice and having scientific proof of the exact mechanism which makes it work. So when Dr. John Snow took the handle off the pump in Broad Street it stopped cholera spreading - but nobody had identified the exact bacteria, they just had a new theory that cholera was waterborne rather than airborne.

For me it's similar with the immunes stuff. If it's working in practice then I really don't give a stuff if scientists are constantly proving that there is no link between NK cells and fertility. That's looking at NK cells - not the overall efficacy of the treatment. Those are two different things.

The immune system does play a role in conception. Exactly how it works is not fully understood. See this paper…..

If the immune system has a part to play in getting pregnant then I don’t find it hard to believe that it could go wrong sometimes. I don’t know of any part of the body which is known to never fail. It seems highly unlikely that the immune system’s role in conception is the only bodily function to always work perfectly. Unfortunately for us, there is no hard proof of how to identify the exact problem or the most effective way to correct it. It’s all just a shot in the dark.

Barking it’s hard to make a choice when there are no definitive answers. I would suggest you either go for the tests and take the treatment your clinic recommends - and weigh the expense against peace of mind over your lifetime. Or fully research all the risks linked to the treatments and if you feel you would like to give those treatments a whirl then go to a clinic which will offer them without the full testing. It really is all down to personal choice. Do what will bring you peace.

Spare - in your position I’d go for the freeze. Even if it costs more it takes the pressure off for a bit. Just my two-pennorth.

Excellent advice from wild there. I'd just add that there's some info on the hfea website (sorry if you already havelooked) on risks etc, which are esy to underestimate.

www.hfea.gov.uk/fertility-treatment-options-reproductive-immunology.html
The research they cite is getting on a bit but it's still the best available evidence on these things, as wild says. I have a degree in Mol bio so feel free to ask specific qs if that would help. But at the end of the day, it is about giving yourself peace of mind.

I wouldn't bother with the NK test personally though. Or the gene polymorphisms, especially as there's no associated treatment.

IMpressed with all this excecise chat. I had profiteroles for breakfast yesterday, gives you some idea of where my head is with that at the moment ;)

tiger hope the chasing works. MAybe we should develop some template letters for berries to use. "Sir, I refer to my previous correspondances of the 18th, 19th, 20th am and pm, 21st, and 22nd of this week. ANSWER ME PLZ"

tough call minx. I think I'd just go with the "specialist" appointment - people usually don't ask too many questions...

hi sesame, Beaky, congrats rain, hallo to anyone I've missed!

Rain fantastic news on your embies, Barry was obviously blasting out his lurve overnight. when do they tell you if you're a day 2 or 5 transfer?

Barking what a mind fuck. Do you reckon from your research that all of those could potentially affect you? I would say go with what you feel you need to do, bearing in mind this is your last potential round and as Wild says if you don't have the tests, and things didn't go your way, would you regret not having them. What does Mr Barking think?

Wild thanks for that info - very informative. I'll miss this when you're not around as much!

Nolly thanks as well, that link was really helpful and actually has made me think a little more about the potential risks of these kinds of treatments. I'd have probably merrily accepted anything offered! Having said that, I've not got any reason to think I've any immune issues anyway.

Spare it sounds like your consultant was bang on with what they said re pred, i.e. Over a short time v.low risk. Great news on your follies so far too! I think I'd go for freezing and see how the NHS decision turns out, given what you've said about this it seems likely you will get the funding as they clearly have no good reason for a no decision. Then you can do your next cycle and stock up I do also find the amh decrease concerning, my blood results have changed significantly in 2 years so for me I agree about wanting to bank what you can now.

Clem fx for you! Don't worry about all of these terms etc and you definitely don't need to know them all now, hopefully you will never need to.

minx did you decide what you were going to say to your colleagues?

Tiger how you doing today? Did you harass the fc? You should definitely send Nolly's letter to them

How's everyone else? Hope everyone has lovely bank holiday plans.

Evening Berries. Sorry for the silence. Can't even blame work at the moment - just been plain lazy this week!
Rain great news on your embies. Hope you are recovering well from EC.
Beaky great news on your follies.
Barking it's a tough call on the immunes. I looked in to it for a bit after the FET failed as I was convinced that there must be something wrong given the FC kept raving about the quality of my palace/embies yet it still wasn't working. They are sooo expensive though. I was reluctant to spend the money given that there may not be anything wrong, if there was I'm not sure we would have then been able to afford to have the necessary treatment and, after all that, there's no guarantee it would result in a BFP anyway. But as Wild very wisely said, it's a personal decision as everyone's situation is different. If you feel it's something you need to do as if you don't you'll always wonder "what if...." then go for it. When I asked our consultant said she thought them unnecessary for us but, had she said differently, I may still be considering them.
Spare what a difficult situation to be in with regards to the funding. I think I'd be tempted to go for the freeze. Fx they make the right decision and you get your funding.
Nolly lol at your letter "ANSWER ME PLZ"
Clem keeping everything crossed for you. Don't worry about all the IVF terms. I don't know what half of them mean and this is my 3rd cycle! Everyone's protocol is different so most of it isn't relevant to anyone else.
Minx I would go with "medical procedure" to explain your absence and, if anyone is nosey enough to ask for more info just say "it's gynaelogical" - that usually shuts people up!! I'm in the position of having to take time off on my first day back after 6 weeks for a scan. Then a few days after that I'll have to take more time for EC/ET (well hopefully, see below). Not ideal but what can I do??
Not great news for me today at the FC. Only 5 follies and they are all still fairly small. They weren't at all worried though and said to stick with the same dose as it's still early days. Feeling a bit deflated but have only done 5 shots of stimms and the last one of those was less than 12 hours before the scan. Fx for a better result on Tuesday. Realised earlier that I was very conscientious about my water and protein intake in my first 2 cycles as the private FC were quite insistent on it. The NHS haven't really mentioned it and I thought it was just to ward off OHSS but decided it can't hurt so had egg and goats cheese for lunch and invested in some protein milk drinks. On the up side was far more impressed with the FC today. Nurse was absolutely lovely (there was no sign of any nurses there at all on Friday - think they were severely short staffed) and it was generally more organised so I now feel more confident that they actually know what they are doing!
Slightly awkward situation when we bumped in to DH's cousin and his wife in the FC waiting room this morning. We aren't massively close to them as it's such a huge family. We knew they'd been TTC for a while but they hadn't previously been eligible for IVF as he has a child already. Not sure if they knew about us (I wouldn't be surprised if they did as MIL is not the most discreet!) but they obviously do now. None of us mentioned the IVF though we just sat there making small talk - huuuuuge white elephant!!!
Well that was a mammoth post! Hope everyone else is ok. Almost the weekend!

Barking there has been some good advice from others about testing, not sure much I add. I think I would draw up a list of tests and then the corresponding treatment if the test was found to be positive and see what that throws up - I think you've already identified some things you will be prescribed already so perhaps can avoid tests. I think I'd defintely want to know what changes these tests would lead to for your next cycle before committing to them.

My new clinic do not support immune testing, and dismissed me firmly when I brought it up. It is so frustrating that the approaches are inconsistent in each place. It is also difficult because you are being asked to make judgements that even an expert clinician would find hard, but without a medical degree and with the price of everything in the back of your mind.

spare I would go for freezing if you can spare the cash. Takes the pressure off and leaves the door open for NHS funding.

I'm alright ta, beaky apart from hating my job and no joy in chasing the clinic. No cancellations. I'll be ringing frequently until something comes up. How are you? When does dh go away?

That's a decent fertilisation rate rain although I know what you mean about being disappointed, not that you should be as hopefully you have four excellent embryos doing their thing!

nolly profiteroles for breakfast sounds good. My head is probably somewhere similar. Have you started the new job?

The two week wait is a nightmare clem! Do you know when you ovulated? It must be late in the cycle if you are 35 days. I still symptom spot - this month we only dtd once during the window, due to being away, and that was the day after ovulation. So naff all chance and I'll still be over-analyzing the odd twinge no doubt.

Hope everyone else is ok. On way home now and working from home tomorrow, yay!

Oh berries, I’ve been trying to get in all day, honest, but now there’s no longer an app…

barking sorry I’ve unfortunately done zero research on immunes, but there’s some great advice here. I’m probably with wild on the whole ‘what if’ which is probably what got me in to the mess I’m in in the first place

Waves to nolly, loving the profiteroles for breakie, very continental... My friend turned up last weekend with posh salted caramel choc spread which I can also recommend.

rain well done on the fertilization stats. Go embies go!

spare looks like you’ve got some nice folli growth going on there. I don’t know what to say about the freezing cept to say you had already won me over with your previous banking scenario. Good luck working out what you want to do.

clem go get some polos, and as for symptom spotting, when I got my bfp I didn’t have any symptoms at all. Tho perhaps that’s a symptom in itself….?

Tiger, well done on getting your running shoes ordered. You’ll have to go out now, to at least make sure you get your value for money…

beaky yes I’m taking CoQ10 now. I’ve been casting aside my scientific suspicion of all things not proven and I currently have a much more pill happy approach.

happy 5 follies sounds like a good start, it’s still early so hopefully they’ll grow on nicely. I once bumped into a guy from my work in the fc waiting room with his wife. It was so embarrassing, but I just said hello, how are you, completely ignoring the environment we were in, as if we’d just seen each other in Tesco or something. And when I next saw him in the office, neither of us acknowledged it either. I do sometimes wonder what happened to him after tho.

All this talk of running motivated me to go out for the second time this week. My first consultant didn’t approve of running during IVF, I think it was risk of falling and twisting an ovary or something… So I ended up quitting for 5-6 weeks and it was really really hard to go back to it. My current clinic don’t care about such things. I’m going to see how the scan goes Monday and then decide what to do. I may still be able to squeeze in one more run on Sunday before that, depending on how I feel. In other news, the stabbing’s still going alright, tho my fat IVF belly is starting to look a bit spotty now and I have a nasty bruise from the Gonal F not a fan of the pen design.

happy glad you have more confidence in the clinic - 5 follies is fine, give them time and they'll get there . Eeek for meeting your cousin there - awkward! DH bumped into a colleague at our NHS clinic, they didn't acknowledge each other!

rain when do you get your next update?

Sorry I haven't got time to reply to everyone, just posting quickly before work ignoring the fact that actually I'm sat at my desk and should have started
Thank you to everyone who has given me advice. This is my current thinking -

a) as far as my internet research tells me, Chicago is the birthplace no pun intended of all the immune stuff, and still where all the level 2 bloods are sent. In the UK, Dr G at Care in Nottingham worked closely with the Chicago dr (Beer?) and Dr Shehata is the other name always mentioned. We're with Care, just not in Nottingham (where there's usually a massive waiting list anyway) so our consultant has worked with Dr G and follows the same procedures so that's good enough for me.

b) We could go somewhere that would give me the pred and the intralipids anyway, but they aren't without risks and the Care clinic is walking distance from our house, and close to my office as well. It also has a car park. This sounds ridiculous, but there isn't anywhere else in our city apart from the NHS clinic that I never want to go back to (they also do private patients) and the private clinic that didn't give me gas and air for the horrible biopsy, which sends their patients to the NHS/private clinic for bits of the treatment anyway, so I don't want to go anywhere else unless there's a really good reason - the convenience of it reduces a lot of stress around work and travel when going in during the cycle.

c) ARGC doesn't do immunes for patients who aren't having IVF with them anyway (although I'm not sure how they could force you?!)

d) Doing it all the long way round would take longer as well as add to the stress, and I don't know yet how the clinic would react to us side stepping them (when he quoted us over £1000 for the drugs and I asked if we could source them ourselves he didn't say no but he kept going on about how potentially stressful that could be, and what if I ran out etc.) even if we make a decision this weekend, we've probably missed the boat to start in mid September by the time we've had the bloods done - and we'll be doing long protocol this time, so that then jumps to November/December being the month it will all happen, and that would mean an August baby (I'M JOKING!!! What I mean is the consultant told us we could start immediately if we wanted to - ie in 2 weeks, so Nov/Dec is far too far away for my impatient mind)

e) On the other hand it's MiL who has offered to pay for this, and I feel like I should be travelling round the country/posting my blood to the US myself if that's what it takes to get the costs down.

f) Oh, and I'm also considering the hidden infections test with Serum... (haven't told DH about that one yet).

Argh!!! No closer to making a decision....

nolly what can you tell me about the PAIP Gene Polymorphism?

Clinic just called. They're all still going but only one doing well. They've therefore scheduled us in to do a D3 transfer tomorrow morning. If any of the rubbish 3 catch up, they will put two back. If by some miracle they look better tomorrow they'll let us know and go for D5. Despondent is not even the word for how I feel right now. Whatever happens looks like we won't be freezing anything.

Oh Rain please don't be too despondent - there is still hope! I've had a total of 5 apparently perfect hatching blasts put back and it hasn't worked. Meanwhile others (Bunny?) have had lower quality day 3 transfers and it's worked first time. Also try to see the freezing as a bonus - I read somewhere that only 20% of cycles end up with something left over to freeze. I've had 10 embies make it to blast but, after the 4 we had put back, only 1 was suitable for freezing so it really is the exception rather than the rule. However, having said all of the above I know full well how you worry and stress over every stage of this hideous process. I had a total meltdown last night doing the jabs. I've convinced myself that I'm not doing the Menopur correctly and that's why we only had 5 follies yesterday. Had a proper blub all over poor DH. Thinking of you, keeping everything crossed and sending a huge Berry hug

Hello everyone. I'm back, and have just finished reading through all the posts while I was away.

Barking I would have thought that if MIL is paying for this grandchild, the upside might be that she can pay for all these tests as part of that process - I mean, if she's going to forever make you feel your child is all her doing, then you might as well get your money's worth!

Regarding the NK tests, I was completely under the impression that the biopsy test was WAY more conclusive / relevant for ttc than the blood test, and that the blood test was done only as an easy test but knowing it is inferior. (I may be wrong but that's what I'd read and am sure my FC said the same). Therefore if you've already had a negative biopsy I wouldn't bother with the blood test. Might save a few pennies.

I'd definitely second the suggestion to put the related treatments against each test to see if that helps you make a decision.

Rain I'm so sorry you only appear to have one good embie. But just remember that the reason they're suggesting a D3 transfer instead of D5 is only because of the numbers - it doesn't mean this particular embie wouldn't have happily gone on to become a blasto. They just figure that if you don't have others from which to choose, you may as well put it back sooner.

Having said that I totally understand what you're feeling.

I'm supposed to be cooking spaghetti bolognaise so will have to come back later to post about my last AliG appointment (which contradicted much of the Prof's suggestions ahhh )

but I had to laugh at minx getting better at flicking the bubble , and I'm with Nolly on having thought that snakebites and black were illegal - suspect it was just our Uni campus trying that on to avoid the resultant carnage! We just bought them as two separate drinks and mixed them ourselves out of sight

Thanks smidge and happy - had some excellent berry support and wisdom off the thread too so am feeling a lot better. Just got myself into a bit of a tizz this morning (probably didn't help that the embryologist rang before I'd even got out of bed, so wasn't fully awake!).
I think our one good (and possibly, hopefully, two) good embie(s) have every chance of doing well. Just need to keep thinking positively! Going to go and listen to some Blind Melon for magical number 3 vibes, have lunch with a friend, and come back later to add a less self centred post!

Minx are you a teacher? I thought I was the only one left (with the exception of our best in show of course!). We had lots of teacher Berries once upon a time but they have all gone on to pastures new. Great news that your deputy has been so supportive, my Head has been fantastic about it too because she has no choice as it's written in the LA LoA policy. I'm on 375 of Menoupur and they've give it to me in doses of 75iu which means I have to inject and draw it back up FIVE times . By the end I've only got about 0.75ml left so I wouldn't worry about losing 0.1ml!! When I did my private cycle I had a massive 1200 dose vial that would last me just over 3 days. I'd just mix once from a pre loaded syringe then draw off the 375 - far more straightforward!!
Smidge welcome back. Hope you had a great trip.
Well I'd better get moving as I'm still in my PJs and I've done nothing but tit around on MN and research next year's holiday!

barking, I totally get what you are saying about convenience being important. These things do have a lot of value compared with the stress of extra travel and shopping around for treatment. That’s why I’m sticking with my current clinic for this cycle and not doing the London/abroad thing just yet. I still have to take a half day off work to travel to my clinic for appointments, but it’s still the nearest place where I can go private and without my local NHS hospital’s waiting lists. Luckily they do also have a satellite clinic near my house where I can get my scans.

rain, I’m sorry it’s not the news you were hoping for but hang on in there, you’re still in with a really good chance with a day 3 transfer and the other 3 embies may yet pull through. These clinic phone calls are total menkul though, but you will get there.

happy sorry about the menopur meltdown… Every cycle is different, I’m sure you’re doing everything you need to. I hope you are feeling better today.

Hi smidge, hope you enjoyed your spag bol, I just had a chuckle about the illegal mixology from your uni days .

minx I’m really glad it worked out with the school . For menopur, I sort of tilted the vial, forced the needle to bend right into the edge (it has to be very secure on the syringe to do this), flat side down, and sucked everything up including some air as the last few bubbles rise up. Then after withdrawing the needle I held the vial up to the light to check it was empty. I remember the nurse telling me it’s normal to lose a little bit of liquid between the 4 bottles.

In other news, after 4 years ttc and 3 lots of ICSI, my colleague just shared his first baby photos. .

Hi there, will catch up properly later but just wanted to say to rain try not to worry hun although I know it's far easier said than done. I was in exactly your position on day 3 but we only had 2 embryos to start with. On day 3 the one was only 4 cells so I really thought that only left us with one still in the game but by some miracle which I would never ever have expected both made it to day 5 hatching blasts and are now safely frozen away. I'm just trying to say don't get too despondent as you never know what will happen in this process. The other 3 could be looking better again tomorrow. Keeping my fingers tightly crossed for you.