TTC with PCOS (Thread #2)

[RoseBud2015]

If you have been diagnosed with PCOS and would like a small group of very friendly ladies in the same position as you to talk to, then this is the thread for you!

You can find our first thread >>>>>>>>> HERE

You can find the stats >>>>> HERE

Oh IsIt Come into my office for a large slice of and a I have tissues too, if needed. You are entitled to be both furious and upset... I think it's awful the way that obs/gynae are together like that. When I was v heavily pg with DS, the registrar couldn't find his heartbeat on her machine (hideous; he'd not been moving either) and made me go round to the 'better' machine with the sonographer and jump ahead of the queasy looking early pg ladies awaiting scans. I was sobbing my heart out, on crutches too, so couldn't move quickly or discreetly. All was fine, but I felt terrible for all those poor women outside wondering wtf was happening. You think they'd have a better system. Anyway, what have you decided? Are you going to wait to see your own Dr? Your DH is probably only saying that because he thinks it would be best for you, but I can see why you'd want to be seen today anyway (Metformin didn't agree with me either btw) Thinking of you...

so I decided to go for the new job :D

also I've been one week on Marvelon so far, just started spotting (I hope it calms down) and sex drive as completely disappeared :S. I hope it settles a bit over the next couple month.

Haha!! I know, feel like celebrating myself!! Got my consultation next Wednesday so hoping she gives me something to bring it inline!!
So far the diets going ok... But only on day 2 ????

Xx

mistletoeprickles Rufus200 and everyone else worried about painkillers. Bit of a specialist subject as I broke my back (if you get the chance to do this, don’t is my advice!!) and I take some pretty mega painkillers to manage the pain on a daily basis - so I’ve been bounced around consultants to work out a plan of action for pain management if (they say ‘when’, I just can’t bring myself to say it!) I get pregnant

My pain consultant, obstetrician and the consultant obstetric physician I saw yesterday - who literally wrote the book on prescribing in pregnancy, and is one of only 5 consultants in maternal medicine in the country - all say there’s no good evidence for painkillers affecting fertility at the moment.

As far as painkillers go, it’s really important to avoid ibuprofen in pregnancy, esp in the first and last trimesters, but paracetamol is fine.

I take mega opioid painkillers (tramadol and oxycodone) and actually it turns out I don’t have to come off my meds unless (until, they say!) I get a BFP, and even then the consultant yesterday says I don’t have to come off them completely, which I cannot tell you is such a relief!

I’ve been struggling for the last 3 months to taper down my meds before TTC and in so much pain I was getting so little sleep and generally in such a pickle my OH said never mind pregnancy, I was in no state to try and get pregnant given I could barely walk. Thankfully things are better now I’ve been allowed to up my meds.

So obv less is better if you’re upduffed, but no need to worry (according to my docs) about anything OTC before getting your BFP

chandelierswinger I so agree about the obs/gynae thing. In the secretary's offices for both my obstetrician and the obstetric consultant I saw yesterday, the walls are COVERED with massive collages of babies from their patients. I know it's supposed to be happy and encouraging and esp from the fertility doc, encouraging to show how many people he's helped to get pregnant (i.e. success rates, and it'll be your time soon). But as my DH pointed out, it's a bit shit if you're struggling, or you've had a MC or other problem, and when you go in to pay (it's private so as a double whammy you see all the baby photos as you're handing over your credit card!!) it's like a kick in the teeth. Bless him for being the one to observe that though!

Welcome to the new joiners

chandelier I was referred to an endocrinologist after my bloods revealed my TSH is higher than normal; will be meeting him next week
How come you were referred before? Have you decided to see the doc again?

Oh isit what a shitty thing to have to contend with. Did you and your H come to an agreement? have some and a hug.

Cobbles I haven't had my bloods done since my diagnosis of secondary subfertility (partially PCOS, partially other things) in 2008 so it's probably time I went and had them done again. I was told that the endocrinologist would be a better route as I already had a child (obvs now have two) but I can't recall why??! Perhaps my bloods showed something I didn't 'pick up on' at the time Regardless, I'll be back at the Drs if I haven't managed to get myself upduffed in 2 months, as I am over the hill a certain age

Banana Eesh. Double whammy, as you say. Thanks for the info re. OTC painkillers too. You sound like you've had your fair share of drugs, bless you.

Okay, so having taken my last (huge) dose of SI last night, I am now experiencing sharp stabbing pains in my left ovary (the one that usually causes most trouble)... Do I take this as a sign that it might be waking up and getting ready to do cool things? Or that I've totally pissed it off with all my 'erbs n stuff?

HUGE WOOP for ShellBell for AFs arrival!!!! Yay! Other than the diet plan, did the nurse give you any other indication of what is next for you?

Vixx Did AF turn up yet? If so you aren't far behind me!

Welcome Banana! Another skinny PCOSer here! BMI of 18 and no ov..... ever! I'm on my second round of clomid (first at 100mg) at the mo so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my ovaries actually do something this month! How old are you? Are you trying for your first? How long have you been ttc? I will add you to the stats
You sound like you have had an awful time with health issues- you poor thing!

Mistletoe We are pretty much clomid and cycle buddies this month!!! Yay! No side effects for me at all yet.... I feel good! Weird huh? How about you- any issues so far?

Isit What did you both decide to do in the end? I think I would have seen them and see what they had to say, then made a fuss if I wasn't happy. I hope you are ok?!

Drew So pleased to hear that you have decided to go for the new job! Great decision! And hopefully it will evoke the law of sod! When do you hear about it?

Chandelier Sounds promising to me!!!! Ovary twinges have to be a good sign, right? Let the opk testing begin! Are you cd8 ish at the mo?

Hi!
chandelier if I had any idea where your office was I would have been in there like a shot!
Also, I would def insist on bloods if I were you. I had mine done by Gp then again when I got to consultant (and DH had to have SA) and now I have day 21 bloods done every cycle. Loads could have changed since yours was done last!

In the end I was a stubborn cow and told DH to either support me or go home because I was being seen today. He was quiet and supportive after that, and I definitely made the right choice. The replacement consultant has prescribed me something to bring my period on, happily swapped my metformin for the slow release version (usual consultant has refused and said I need to build up tolerance) AND he wants me to up my dose of clomid to 150mg. He clearly didn't have time to go through all my notes so he didn't realise that I still have some Clomid at home, so I now have enough for another 6 cycles, on top of the 3 I've done so far.
Dr was lovely, discussed the need to lose weight but made it something that me and DH have to work on together rather than a criticism of me, and was just generally helpful

With the waiting rooms, I think they're just awful. There were posters everywhere about babies progress in the womb, scan and baby pics and information about family support. A lady came in, looked around and walked out. I overheard her On the phone (I went out to use my phone) telling someone that she couldn't face sitting looking at bumps when she's just lost a baby That was awful. My heart broke for her. The lovely nurses sat her somewhere else in the end.

So, apologies for being a ranty mare, I always end up on edge when I have a consultant appointment. And thank you for &

Rosebud thanks so much ???? feel like celebrating! Haha.. The nurse didn't say anything, just need to see what the consultant says next week! When I was there last time she said the consultant may put me on tabs to help regulate and ovulate.. So thinking clomid maybe my next step. Think AF will just be finished when I go next week! Hoping a can lose abit of weight by next week too!

Isit I would have been the same as you!! At least you stayed and got ur medication fixed!! Well done to Dh for being supportive and staying!! I agree with the pics on the wall too, kind of a kick in the teeth in some ways!

Chandlier fingers crossed it's all good signs!! Better get checked over!!

Well I have just found out one of my best friends is pregnant!! She was having trouble and had endrometrosis and had a tube removed.. I'm so happy for her as being trying for ages, but in the other I feel like a bitch as wish it was me!! ????????

RoseBud2015 Thanks for having me! And really nice to meet another skinny cyster - as you know it’s quite tricky when so much of the advice is predicated on recommending weight loss. Keeping my fingers crossed for you that this cycle is the one, and the 100mg gets you laying that egg!

I’m 33, trying for our first. I’ve literally only just come off the pill - last pill was on Friday, and having my withdrawal AF. I do have quite a few health issues, and so had to go round the houses to get a plan in place for IF I become pregnant, before actually starting TTC, as I’m a bit of a complicated patient. I was diagnosed with epilepsy the month after our wedding, before I’d had chance to stop the pill, and had to stay on it until the neurologist was happy the anti convulsants were stabilising things and my seizures were under control. At my 4 months review earlier this year, he gave us the OK on that front, but because the anti epilepsy drugs increase the risk of birth defects, I had to get a minimum of 3 months of prescription strength folic acid under my belt first (there’s a 2-4% risk of defects like spina bifada or heart defects in the general population - which is why you all take your folic acid. The medication I take increases this risk to 5-6%, hence why I have to take the mega dose)

Then with all the pain meds for my broken back, I’ve been going round the houses, tapering down off my pain meds as had to get used to being on lower doses, ready to taper off completely and switch to other meds if (when!) I get a BFP. That’s been an absolute nightmare, as I mentioned before, so OH rightly said the ‘tough it out on as little as possible’ wasn’t working (I wasn’t sleeping, couldn’t walk properly, and was getting the visual aura that precede my seizures, so was risking having to go back round again if I had a fit because I was in so much pain and so shattered physically and emotionally). Saw consultant no 4 (neurologist, pain consultant, obstetrician and now obstetric physician) to better work out meds whilst TTC and then have a plan in place to prepare for what will hopefully at some point follow.

VERY longwinded I know, but it’s bloody complicated tbh, and been really tough just to get to the point where we could even start the TTC journey!!

So yes, all that before we get to the PCOS and infertility, haha. Obstetrician is happy to start Clomid whenever we want, though needs OH to go and get his swimmers tested first. We decided I’d come off the pill and ‘try’ naturally (well, try and let my hormones adjust a bit to being off the pill / try and get me to ovulate - trying to conceive feels somewhat optimistic!) while he ‘swots up for the test’ with a wee while of super duper clean living before he goes to jizz in a cup ;-)

So I’m going hell for leather rattling with supplements (drawer full!!) and trying fertility acupuncture in the mean time. After all this time, a couple more months of just getting everything else health wise on a bit more of an even keel, before we start on the Clomid, feels like the right thing to do

Bloody hell I do waffle on!! x

chandelierswinger ooh, saw you mention taking SI, do you mind if I ask what dose you're taking?

I've gone a bit mental with the supplements to try and regulate things / kick start my ovaries, think I may have gone overboard!

Soy Isoflavones
------
I debated Agnus Castus vs Soy Isoflavones - I know you ought not to use them together, but as AC can take months to build up (and I'll be starting Clomid in a few months), and SI is supposedly a natural alternative to Clomid (selective oestrogen receptor modulator - i.e. is thought to block oestrogen in a similar way to Clomid to trick the brain into pumping out the FSH and LH to kick start ovulation), and is taken for 5 days at the start of the cycle, much like Clomid, I thought I'd try SI rather than AC...

Would love to know if anyone here has any thoughts!

inositol
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I also read up about Myo Inositol performing well in trials to stimulate ovulation when tested against Metformin and placebo - bit concerned about losing weight, though in the US it's pretty standard for lean PCOS women to be prescribed Metformin, as we're generally still insulin sensitive even if we're less likely to be insulin resistant. Anyone here taking inositol would also love to know how you're getting on

Evening Primrose Oil
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EPO for CM until ovulation (so that could be just ongoing if I don't lay an egg!!)

Vitamins
--

I know the obstetric physician said yesterday in my consult about all my various meds, that I should throw out the Pregnacare, and that he was adamant about multivitamin supplementation being a waste of money and vitamin C in excess risking pre-eclampsia - and that all we need is folic acid and possibly vitamin D supplementation if not getting enough sunlight. I know he's published a medical textbook nutrition in pregnancy so I should listen to him, but I bought the bloody VitaFem tablets and though I will take his advice and not re-buy them, I feel like I've bought the damn things so I'm going to finish this month's supply!

Plus my prescription super strength folic acid, Zita West's Vital DHA, and BioCare Bioacidophilus probiotic to help my buggered digestion from all the opioid painkillers.

All that plus my prescription medications means I must be half pills by now!

All and any advice v gratefully received

ps: sorry for barrage of posts, a bit over excited about FINALLY getting to start the TTC journey and I'm like a kid hyped up on too many party rings haha

Just popping in to say hi. Will have to catch up on the thread later.

for everyone.

Hey RoseBud2015
I have the job for sure, it wasn't through an application process :)
I had a long talk with my partner, he was getting worried and upset and wanted me to promise that regardless what happens if we fall pregnant during the probation period, we have to go for it.

I'm still here! Sorry I've not been posting much, I haven't really been posting anywhere. I prefer it here to the antenatal club thread, I don't like the busy ones!

Not much to update from me. I haven't really had any symptoms but today I've been feeling like I could easily rip off someone's head and smash it against a wall multiple times. I don't know if that's the pregnancy hormones or the fact I appear to be surrounded by idiots sometimes, but I don't particularly care, I just want to commit an act of violence.

I saw my diabetes doctor yesterday and he was thrilled for us. Got a strict plan to follow now with my diabetes so, true to form, I've been going hypo left right and centre since I left his clinic. Added to that that my cats stole my insulin pen from beside the bed and hid it somewhere and the fact they scattered my glucose biscuits around the bedroom with gay abandon, I woke up a bit hulk-like.

I have told 2 people at work so far, and suddenly 3 know The 3rd came up to me and asked outright if I was pregnant. Never wearing that outfit again. Anyway I said I just want to get through the first trimester so I can relax a bit. She then proceeded to talk to me for 15 minutes about all the miscarriages she's had and how she once had a stillborn baby at term. What the actual feck?!? How the hell is that appropriate to tell someone a) who you barely know and b) who has just indicated she is anxious as it is?!?!

Grumble grumble grumble hulk smash....

Omg Abfab!!!

That's do insensitive!!! Should bloody have told her where to go!!!

IsIt That is fab news I'm so pleased you have had your meds changed and are feeling more positive! Have you started the progesterone today? Was it Provera? It only took me 4 days for my AF to show after taking it!

ShellBell I'm convinced the doc will out you on 50mg clomid next week! Eek! So many of us are starting to get there now!!!! FINALLY!!!

Banana Wow! Just getting onto start TTC has been such a long journey for you I hope that your time with us here on this thread is short and you get your BFP quickly- It really does sound like you deserve a break from the difficulties you have been facing. What dose of inositol and AC are you taking? I'm on 4000mg inositol and I definitely feel like it's having an effect on my appetite- but nothing else so far! (And I realllllllly don't want to lose weight so keep eating even though I'm not at all hungry!) You can see details of what everyone else on this thread is taking meds-wise by clicking the link on page 1.

Drew That's even better! Congratulations!!! I think your partner is right- if you fall pregnant in your probationary period, it doesn't matter. You will still be working there for at least another 6 months before maternity leave kicks in and I would imagine you would be out of your probationary period by then, so no problem there! And if you don't fall pregnant that quickly, you have a nice new job to keep you busy and happy in the meantime! win, win

Ab!!!! Let those angry monsters out of you- let them out!!!! You will feel soooooo much better! You should have laid in to that bitch at work (maybe not literally )...... she sooooo deserved it! What an awful thing to do in the first place- asking someone if they are pregnant is NEVER a normal thing to do! And then....... to tell you all about her problems!!! As awful as they may have been for her, it's not at all helpful for you! Seems to all be kicking off on your Feb ante-natal thread though! You're not missing the action are you?!

Rosebud - thanks for the link to the stats, ta muchly! And thanks for good wishes. Hope that for everyone here :-)

I decided to take Soy Isoflavones rather than Agnus Castus, as AC is supposed to take several months to work, by which time I should have started the Clomid. SI seems to work (if it does!) in a similar way to Clomid ie an oestrogen blocker to trick the body into producing FSH. So sounds great for us pcos chicks with massively irregular cycles who don't ovulate!

I'm also doing 4mg Inositol. Started on the SI today (CD3). Also taking EPO (which it turns out IS ok for epileptics, the warning on the bottle is from 2 studies in the 80s which have been debunked, it seems) and DHA.

Will keep an eye on making sure I eat enough on the Inositol - thanks for the tip. I'm so crap about remembering to eat, I prob need to set an alarm or something. Keep us posted with how you get on xx

Sorry 4g inositol! 4000mg, same as you :-)

isit what fab news for you and so glad your H bucked his ideas and supported you. Sounds like this stand in consultant was better?

banana welcome, welcome! sounds like you're having a long and interesting journey towards TTC. Best of luck.

drew congrats on the new job. If you get pg whilst on probationary don't worry, just go with it. You'll probably be out of that period by the time due date comes round anyway!

abfab what an awful thing for that woman to say to you. Did you say anything about how upset you were? I suppose she has a right to talk about her losses, but you were obviously indicating you were anxious.

anyway as for me, chart is already looking like rocky mountains as Atilla predicted. Poked self in eye with thermometer by accident this morning so thats going well.

what are all these isoflavones and inositol? are they natural remedies?

susurration Thanks for the welcome - it's great to be able to be a TTC lunatic on here, as I know DH thinks I'm obsessing madly (and he's right!)

Inositol is thought to work a bit like ‘nature’s metformin’ - the idea is that it does a similar job to Metformin, helping to regulate insulin, which is what causes the hormonal imbalance in PCOS. Even in lean women, who are less likely to be insulin resistance, studies seem to suggest we are insulin sensitive - i.e. we don’t have elevated levels of insulin, but our ovaries overreact to the insulin that is there. It’s why my consultant recommended a low GL diet - cos PCOS is a metabolic condition.

This explains it way better than I can

pcosdiva.com/2012/07/de-mystifying-myo-inositol/

And I found this quite a useful summary of the evidence & research around Inositol:

sites.google.com/site/miscarriageresearch/supplements-and-miscarriage/d-chiro-inositol

Soy Isoflavones are thought to work a bit like ‘nature’s Clomid’ - they’re phytoestrogens (naturally occurring oestrogen from plants), and it’s a bit of a weird one, cos lots of stuff recommends avoiding Soy in general because of extra oestrogen messing with the hormone imbalance we PCOS-ers already have. But Isoflavones specifically, seem to possibly have a similar effect to Tamoxifen or Clomid - they’re ‘Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators’, which block oestrogen and trick the brain into pumping out more FSH to stimulate ovulation. The evidence for this seems to be pretty thin, as studies don’t seem to really have been done to test its efficacy, although there’s a tonne of anecdotal evidence on TTC boards from women convinced SI played a role in getting their BFPs! If you google it there are tonnes of threads of women extolling its virtues, though I'm a bit nervous about self medicating with this given there isn't any proper research on it...

It seems to be recommended NOT to take this all the way through the cycle, but if you do take it, to take it for 5 days the same way you’d take Clomid - CD 3-7 or 5-9.

Also v important not to take Soy Isoflavones AND Agnus Castus, in the same way you mustn’t take AC and Clomid - as they can cancel each other out.

That's my understanding and why I'm taking them - if any of that makes any sense at all!

Oh and this is quite good at explaining the benefits of Myo-Inositol (which is what Inositol supplements are) over buying specific d-chiro-inositol. Basically seems to be the case that while d-chiro-inositol has been shown to be effective at improving insulin, myo-inositol seems to be more effective at improving fertility - i.e. d-chiro-inositol would prob be a the right choice if you're a PCOS-er looking to try and manage symptoms but NOT TTC, whereas for those of us trying to lay an egg to get upduffed, the Myo seems to be the better bet...

www.pcosnutrition.com/links/blogs/myo-inositol-proves-better-for-fertility-than-d-chiro-inositol.html

I too I am taking inositol banana not been on it long put noticed a few good changes. Glad you've found somewhere to vent the TTC frustrations, it can be draining at times and can take over your relationship, it's important to try take time away from it, unless your on Meds etc and timing when to try around OV xxx
Congrats on the job drew I hope it's the start of a lot of new positive changes for you and your partner xx
abfab how rude is that women?! Some people should think before they speak!!
Hope everyone else is doing dandy
Early night for me, got my preop in the morning, hoping I get a date for a Lap and Dye... I am so inpatient, cannot wait to start some sort of treatment and get some solutions xx night all

Hi! I naturally conceived my daughter4 years ago after loosing 8 stone. I'm now trying to loose weight again as 4 of it has gone on and we want baby number 2! I was diagnosed with PCOS 13 years ago. X