We might be over 40 but we are young at heart, taking our supplements, shagging on time and waiting for the precious BFP!Over 40's TTC, join us here...

[Gumblossom]

Starting the new thread, Cloudjumper.

Anyone over 40, trying to conceive, whether it is your first or 6th (or more), we're facing the obstacles together.

I've been at it for 6 years now, but there are plenty of good news stories from these threads over the years.

Come and join us with your worries, woes,successes and milestones, we are here to support one another in our quest.

Oh, and by my dates (charting) I had the scan 37 days post conception, which almost falls in the parameters intuit article.

However, my scan wasn't transvaginal, so who knows how accurate it was. I was given a disk of the scan, I wonder if it would have measurements (such as the heart rate) on it. Unfortunately,my computer doesn't have a disk drive, I will have to see if it works on DH's computer.

Gum sorry you're having such a worrying time, but like others have said, it's hard to be accurate measuring something so tiny and a few days out isn't necessarily anything to worry about. I was told at an early scan seeing the heart beat was the most important factor. I would definitely have another scan next week if you can for reassurance. I had weekly scans up to 12 weeks with my last pregnancy, at 7 and 9 and 12 weeks at the EPU but at 8,10 and 11 weeks privately. It wasn't until 12 weeks that I was given an EDD. It sounds as though your sonographer had decided to be pessimistic before she even began scanning,what a dreadful attitude!
Sorry you had a bad experience at your EPU too annie , you would think people in that position would show more empathy.
Glad your scan went well Grizzer!
Congratulations flotillas!
Hope your scan at the weekend goes well cloud !

cross posts gum but I would think especially if your scan wasn't transvaginal there could be a much greater margin of error in the measurement! Yay for 82% chance of success, that's an encouraging stat!

Hi ladies, I have just spoken to the on-call Dr about the scan results and I honestly think I need to prepare myself for the worst. The report on the ultrasound said that the yolk sac measurement of 6.2mm is associated with poor outcomes. That combined with the crown rump measurement of 8mm (6+4 according to a chart I looked at) just makes me feel I should prepare. The heart rate was 141, which is good at that stage.

I also got beta hcg level: 35,000, which I know is in the range, and progesterone of 77, which is also good.

My symptoms aren't very strong and I have an awful feeling it isn't going to go well.

When I asked the doctor if I should have another scan, he said he'd spoken to my doctor (who is on leave) and she said to "just see what happens". That sounds like I am just waiting to miscarry.

I feel very alone in this right now, not terribly supported by the HCP as I'd hoped.

In tears now and trying to hide it from DS. This really was my last chance, so I feel pretty hopeless right now.

So sorry to be a downer.

Gum, sweetheart, you are looking for answers from GPs who really have no clue regarding scans and sacs and measurements and outcomes; they really are clueless (which is why your doctor could only shrug 'Wait and see'.) The advice and research that has been offered here is sound, I think, but I know you will be feeling doomed by that declaration that 6.2 is 'associated with poor outcomes'. Such an ambiguous and unscientific statement, IMO (what does that even mean in real terms? What about your healthy heartbeat?)

The negativity of that scan has become entrenched in your mind and you are now on a complete downer. I hope you can look up to the sky and see the positives so far. Hold on tight, love

I guess I am trying to rationalise it Flotillas. What I have read is that if the yolk sac measures more than 8mm, then there really is no hope. If it is larger than 5.5mm, then 2 out of 3 go on to miscarry.

An enlarged yolk sac is indicative of chromosomal abnormalities, and at my age, that really is a possibility. Also, it means the baby isn't using the nutrients provided by the yolk sac, and with the baby measuring behind, I suppose I have made the conclusion that it isn't developing correctly.

Also, the comment on the ultrasound report would have been made by a consultant.

I guess I have no choice but to hang on and wait and see. But I feel so despondent right now, it's hard to be at all positive.

I keep wondering how I will cope with another ERPC. I just hated the last two, the anaesthetic makes me so tired for weeks afterwards, but I don't feel brave enough to miscarry on my own.

gum It is an awful limbo that you are in, and it is not helped by the doom and gloom that's being spread by your HCPs. Sadly, there is nothing you can do but hope and wait, which is of course the hardest thing of all.
But you do have reason to hope! Your HcG and progesterone levels are really good, and you had a good heartbeat! I think it is just too early to draw any conclusions about anything else at this stage! Don't worry about your dates for now, as freckled has said, they are only indicative for now, and a lot can change within even a week at this stage.
Can you distract yourself, maybe with a treat, facial, massage? Or have acupuncture?
One day at a time. You are strong, you can do this.

Oh gum I just wish I could give you a big hug.
Waiting is so difficult and it's really hard keeping going and keeping a brave face on for your other DC.
At least your DH knows and will be a support for you.
Like cloud says, you still have hope, I'm thinking of you and saying a prayer for your little bean x

I hope you're feeling ok Gum. Reading stats may give a negative impression but babies are strong & things change daily at this early stage. Hang on in there xx

Hi everyone,
MC with a blighted ovum on my 39th birthday last week. Possibly one of the biggest blows of my life.
Been worried about the whole age thing, esp as DH is 41 this year. Having to wait to heal etc etc is driving me mad but am really keen to have a second DC. Feeling sad/worried and pressured is not a good recipe for baby-making. Someone pass me some gin, please.
Hoping for mutual support and happy stories from the many mums and mums to be on this thread. Xxx

Flotillas, good betas! Congrats! And grizzer, yay for good scaN
Gum, frankly I think your sonographer was measuringmore by your birthdate than that poor little yolk sac! Of course you worry as any one of us would, but really! How precise they think they are with this little wand thing nowadays? Someone pointed already to misdiagnosed mc site. go and read, it should help. If anything can help - as we all know, thw worry stops when they are born. Or 18 years later. Or never!

Sorry for not coming in earlier, I am in London with kids for half-term and wifi is rather limited in my hotel - otherwise wonderful place, can recommend.
Cloud, I hope you are doing better, too?

Gum - does this help?::::
Aust N Z J Obstet Gynaecol. 2006 Oct;46(5):413-8.
The quality and size of yolk sac in early pregnancy loss.
Cho FN1, Chen SN, Tai MH, Yang TL.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Accurate differentiation between normal pregnancy and pregnancy loss in early gestation remains a clinical challenge.
AIMS:
To determine whether ultrasound findings of yolk sac size and morphology are valuable in relation to pregnancy loss at six to ten weeks gestation.
METHODS:
Transvaginal ultrasonography was performed in 111 normal singleton pregnancies, 25 anembryonic gestations, and 18 missed abortions. Mean diameters of gestational sac and yolk sac were measured. The relationship between yolk sacs and gestational sacs in normal pregnancies was depicted. The yolk sacs ultrasound findings in cases of pregnancy loss were recorded.
RESULTS:
In normal pregnancies with embryonic heartbeats, a deformed or an absent yolk sac was never detected. Sequential appearance of yolk sac, embryonic heartbeats and amniotic membrane was essential for normal pregnancy. The largest yolk sac in viable pregnancies was 8.1 mm. Findings in anembryonic gestations included an absent yolk sac, an irregular-shaped yolk sac and a relatively large yolk sac (> 95% upper confidence limits, in 11 cases). In cases of missed abortion with prior existing embryonic heartbeats, abnormal findings included a relatively large, a progressively regressing, a relatively small, and a deformed yolk sac (an irregular-shaped yolk sac, an echogenic spot, or a band).
CONCLUSION:
A very large yolk sac may exist in normal pregnancy. When embryonic heartbeats exist, the poor quality and early regression of a yolk sac are more specific than the large size of a yolk sac in predicting pregnancy loss. When an embryo is undetectable, a relatively large yolk sac, even of normal shape, may be an indicator of miscarriage.

In other words your strong heartbeat is a very very good sign, and large yolk sacs can be ok in totally normal pregnancies. One of the papers that says that there is an apparently significantly increased risk for miscarriage with large yolk sac, was referring to just 3 out of 8 pregnancies, eg most of the pregnancies were ok!!!!

You have already beaten the odds and are doing well, keep the positive mindset of "today I am pregnant". We are all behind you.

Hi Gunblossom, thanks got sharing your thoughts. All the best with your journey. It's refreshing to hear hear that GPs etc don't become 'alarmed' at women over 40 TTC. Also very interesting what you heard with the group of women who had unplanned pregnancies! Best of luck with your journey. X

willitbe really interesting post, seems like excellent info, hope gum is reassured?

Thanks, willitbe, I also read that study and was a bit reassured. I suppose there are so many tales of woe as well as positive stories,it's hard to know which way to look. It doesn't help that my symptoms aren't very strong, and in my successful pregnancies, by this stage I was usually really sick.

I think I will try to get another scan around a week to 10 days after the first one, to see if there's been growth in the baby and how the heartbeat looks. I am frightened of there being growth in the yolk sac too, but I suppose it would be better to have an idea of what to expect.

The large yolk sac doesn't necessarily mean miscarriage, but it may mean a chromo issue, which is equally as worrying. But then again, I should have known I'd be up for all sorts of worry, getting pregnant at 48.

For today I am pregnant. Depressed, but still pregnant at this stage. I am going to spend some time in the garden today, hoping it will help me feel a bit better. It is hard to pretend all is well with the kids and DH when on the inside I am terrified and deeply sad.

Gum - every pregnancy is different, with my last successful one I had so few symptoms, and so different from my previous pregnancies, I went to the 14 week scan absolutely convinced that it was a missed miscarriage, and was in shock for hours afterwards. Even after that I had myself totally convinced it would still go wrong. All to protect myself mentally in case it did go wrong. As a result I never enjoyed my last successful pregnancy. I did not know I would only have miscarriages after, that was not the plan!

I would hate to see the joy sucked out of your pregnancy just because of one thing, that two thirds of the time does not mean a thing.

Please try to focus on the odds of things going ok being higher than it not. You have beaten the odds already, this is still the case today, try to enjoy every day of this pregnancy.

You've had some great advice Gum and there are definitely grounds for staying positive. Good hcg and normal heartbeat, plus regular shape to yolk sack really are great things to hold on to. Hope you can try to calm your mind even just for a few hrs at a time xxx

I love your supportive and informative post, Willitbe, thank you for coming to encourage us

Jass, do healthy betas actually mean anything in terms of a likely heartbeat at eight weeks? Does it at least mean I am unlikely to have a blighted ovum as I have previously?

Welcome Monkey. So sorry to hear about your loss. You are still young & there is every chance you will go on to have a successful pregnancy, especially as you already have one dc. I think it's true that you are very fertile after an mc too so, as soon as you feel well enough, jump back on that band wagon!
Lots of positive news Gum. Hope you're feeling a bit better. I still don't have any symptoms. I'm trying to relax & enjoy that feeling while it lasts. I was very sick every day with my last dd, who was also very sick & didn't survive, so i'm hoping no sickness is a good thing.
Are you having another scan today Cloud?
When is your first scan Flotillas?

All good on the scan!! Measuring bang on 9+6 (which I am tomorrow), heart beating away, it was moving around, and we could even see its nose! So relieved

Welcome, Monkey. I am so sorry for your loss

Grizzer, my scan is 24th June when I will be 7+6. Seems such a long way away..

Oh, Cloud, you must be ecstatic! Congratulations

Brilliant news Cloud. Could they see any reason for the bleeding or is it just one of those things?