The Elderberry Pavlovas head into 2014 which will be full of ivf, berry babies and BFPs!!! (thread 17)

[Bunnygirlie]

The smallprint –
Berries have a strict entrance criteria (TTC #1, over 30, TTC for 6+months (preferably 12+) NO instadiffers, must have a special pot and def no mention of baby dust or baby dancing UGH !!! Ooooh aren’t we strict!

The 17th thread, wow! This had better be it ladies, time to get off the Sofa of Pity onto the Pouffe of Positivity and beyond!

[BoodleDoo]

Ambler, I don't mind you asking questions, although there are several better qualified than me on most subjects; Professor Merkin for example!

My first progesterone test, way back when I first went to the doctor, was 29.6, which he reckoned was good enough. (Why have a cut-off of 30 then?) I switched doctors due to a house move and had another test 3 months later. That one confirmed ovulation but I never got the result. My 3rd test was iffy because I argued with the doctor over when I should have it done, due to short luteal phase. She said 7 days before AF, which I did, even though I only ovulated 2 days earlier. Surprise, surprise - progesterone level of 19. My FC then used this to justify putting me on clomid and scoffed when I brought up the short luteal phase as, apparently, the follicular phase can vary but, no matter what, all women have a 14 day LP. End of. [shocked]

My IVF is now at a completely separate, private (though I'm NHS funded) hospital and the difference in attitudes from medical professional is jaw dropping.

I realise you didn't ask for this information - I'm just in a whiny mood!!!

[BoodleDoo]

PS: I missed my mumsnet 1st birthday; it was the 29th December.

[Pipbin]

Ambler I took Vitamin b for a while and found that it added a day to my cycle. However I did learn that it needs to be taken as a complex rather than just B6. It did turn my wee bright yellow and make it stink though.

One thing I have to say though is that my IVF clinic have warned against the use of any multivitamins like pregnacare. They say the only thing that anyone should be taking are folic acid and vitamin C. Multivitamins can be dangerous www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24563590

[CatsCantFlyFast]

Ambler you will be here forever if you try to read back all the other threads! Ask away with your questions, nobody will mind answering or giving their experience. I'm not going to be much help with the tests etc as I got an ironidiff just before I was about to start tests with my gp, but as you will see, there is huge amounts of experience within the berries
Kitty I at you inventing a new scan!
Pip - where are you on cycle 2?

[barkingtreefrog]

pipbin didn't someone say a couple of days ago that their fc raved about pregnacare?! Can't remember who it was and I'm too lazy to read all the way back! So typical of the non standard advice and procedures. You can't bloody win!!

Happy 1st mn birthday boodle. By your 2nd birthday you'll be on the baby boards not knowing what to do with your screaming kid who won't sleep .

I hit my 2 year ttc mark at new year . Annoyingly with AF and Ov completely awol, I feel further away than ever .
However, off to see new acupuncture lady this morning and she will magically bring back my cycles ignores the fact that these things can take months

[FeatherFeather11]

Welcome ambler - you've come to the right place!

barking and boodle - anniversaries are hard, aren't they? Hope all goes well with your new acu lady today barking. boodle, where are you at with your ivf cycle now? Too lazy to scroll back on my phone!

bunny how's the jabbing going?

Sorry if I missed anyone else as me is actually not letting me scroll back to other pages this morning.

As for me CD15 now. Yesterday's temp shot up by nearly two degrees and I was getting stabbing pains in my ovaries but negative opk's. Not sure what that was all about.

Dreading today at work. Pregnant colleague is announcing her news today. She's now nearly 15 weeks and exactly where I would have been. We sit next to each other so I can't avoid her. Wish me luck...

[barkingtreefrog]

Thinking of you feather, 4 months on I'm still avoiding DP's best mate's wife. Keep telling myself to just invite her round, face the bump and get over it as I can't be a social recluse until she's had the baby. Easier said than done though, especially as I don't particularly like the woman!

[Thunderpantsarego]

Sod that barking, I wouldn't invite her round if it were me! Has she been in touch with you/invited you over?

Good luck today feather - that is not easy at all. Sending you thunderpower.

[funkymonk]

Hope your day isn't too tough feather.

Everyone here is well overdue their bfp. I'm confident we will all be diffed by 2015.

Hope all going well with your IVF so far bunny and pip.

Welcome Ambler!

Barking your situation must be very frustrating. If you don't get the answers you want from fc then you can get private blood tests for around 30quid. At least you can round here anyway. I'll try and fond a link to post when I'm on a laptop. In other news, glad your wedding plans are all ob schedule.

I had a negative clear blue digital test yesterday. I am relieved about not needing surgery and despite knowing the bean had gone 2 weeks ago seeing 'not pregnant' was especially hard.

I should have been 8+2 but baby was measuringr 6+2. After first pessaries I bled heavily for around 3 hours. Spotted the next day or 2 and then literally nothing at all. Surely this means my suspicions of low progesterone are correct? If progesterone had been as it should then surely my uterus lining would have been much thicker and I would have bled as they said I would? If only I had begged for tje progesterone supplements sooner then all might have been ok. When I went to Epu with spotting 2 weeks before the mc tans asked my fertility nurse about progesterone she said "oh we won't be doing that here". 2 weeks later I skipped her and went straight to consultants secretary who got me a prescription from him in literally 5mins. Thinking of going private next time to avoid seeing my allocated nurse again. She was the same one who has still not given me clear information on the scary thrombophillia diagnosis as well.

Confused as to whether it was low progesterone or a poor quality swimmer after getting dh sperm analysis. Hmmm. I guess there's no way of knowing so I may as well give up!

Sorry for the long rant!

[funkymonk]

And spelling errors from my clumsy fingers on my phone!

[barkingtreefrog]

funky you can drive yourself insane wondering why it happened. Bottom line is you'll never know for sure, best to concentrate on preparing for the next one instead it's great to give advice you struggle to follow yourself

thunder she's not been in touch at all other than to say she won't be coming to the wedding phew. She wouldn't normally anyway though, we're only friends through our DP/DH being best mates and spending lots of time together. I'm not thinking of making an effort for her sake, it's purely selfish! At the moment I'm avoiding all social events in case she's there. If I could face it it being the bump and not crumble then I might be able to turn up to stuff without worrying whether she'll be there and if I'll burst into tears. I'm coping much better with other bumps and babies, I just have a huge block with her as it's a marker of how much of a bump I would have had by now. On the other hand I've avoided her for 4 months, another 3 or 4 shouldn't be so hard . I don't think I'll have so much of a problem with the baby, I wouldn't have had the same baby and I don't want hers. I would have had the same bump though.

Anyway, sorry for the waffle. Feeling emotional just writing about it. Maybe it's something I do need to face in the hope that fear of it is worse than reality and I'll feel better or maybe it would be worse as I'll have a clear mental image to plague me.

[funkymonk]

Ambler I experimented a lot with vit b. I took a vit b complex and found it worked best when taken 50mg from around 7dpo until af arrived. The same amount taken throughout cycle stopped ovulation and taken from ovulation day gave me an 18 day luteal phase (i stopped after 14dpo and getting bfn). From other posters on mn and elsewhere on internet it seems to work in all sorts of different ways for different women.

[funkymonk]

Oh barking. Sorry cross post. You've done a good job at avoiding her for so long so far. No one can give you any advice that will make you feel any different about seeing her with her bump. Did you ever look into counselling following your mc? My friend found it so helpful. Your gp should be able to put you in touch with someone.

[Thunderpantsarego]

I can see what you mean barking and I guess only you will know if facing the demons will help with the bigger picture. From this outsider point of view it seems like it might be putting yourself through an ordeal that isn't strictly necessary, but of course I don't know how much the general avoidance of situations where she might be present is affecting your life. Wouldn't it be easier to face her at a low key social situation? I know it would be horrible to feel upset there but if you were just popping along to say hi with a pre determined excuse not to stay long? Might dilute the effect vs having to sip tea with her in your own home?

funky good but sad news about the bfn. I know I felt exactly the same after my mc but I remember eventually feeling like it was a small corner turned towards the successful journey ahead.

[barkingtreefrog]

thunder we've got a large, local group of friends, so once or twice a week there's any number of us meeting up for a variety of reasons. Obviously if we're meeting up for a run or bike ride she won't be there, but she still could be meeting us afterwards, or if it's a race she might turn up to watch. Each time a text goes round saying what pub everyone will be in on Saturday night, or that they're going for Sunday lunch somewhere, my immediate reaction is 'will x be there?' and then weighing up how much I want to go given the possibility I might see the bump. I'm missing stuff she's not even at as I don't want to keep asking DP to find out if she's going every single time.

funky I asked the GP about counselling and he said it's normal to be upset it just takes time, and by the time I'd chugged up the waiting list and was able to access any counselling on the NHS I'd be ok so there was no point joining the queue.....


Anyway, so the acupuncture. Definitely feel a lot better about it. Totally confident in this acupuncturist. Didn’t mention the running and she didn’t ask anything about exercise. Explained to me how the pill works and why it can cause problems when taken long term. Also explained why my blood tests could be fine but there still be a problem. She talked a lot about what she was doing and why. Apparently it’s common to still have cycles without the bleeding, which I related to – ie still get PMT/outbreak of acne at about the right time, even though there’s no ‘actual’ AF. Downside is the expense. After feeling my pulse and mentioning my stress levels (ok, I get it, I’m stressed) she recommended using wet herbs as well as the acupuncture to get everything going quicker. Which obviously costs more. She’s very old school Chinese medicine.
Happy to waffle about it if anyone is interested.


Anyway, off to have a shower as I stink (she did the smoking pot on the stomach thing) and then going for a very long overdue haircut. I think I last had it cut in April....

Hope the rest of the teacher berries are milking the last day of the holidays!

[FeatherFeather11]

Thanks all. Boss is avoiding my gaze - can tell he has made the calculation and it's awkward. As for the rest of the team, they've not been told yet, but it's just a matter of time. I'm ok. Just feel like I have a bear sitting on my chest and I can't concentrate.

Anyway!

funky so sorry about what's happened with you. A bfn is sad but good in that you don't have to have an op. It's true what barking said about wracking your brain for reasons why but it really is futile. I've done the same: I was even wondering if wearing skinny jeans caused my ectopic at one stage. Just take the time to heal. My ectopic was only a couple of months ago and I have days where I'm devastated and days where I feel positive.

thunder love the idea of thunderpower!

[Thunderpantsarego]

barking I reckon if you're going to bite any sort of bullet, so it through the group social events rather than one to one. You might find that after the first one the situation becomes a lot easier. Brilliant news about the acu though- no idea about smoking pots but it sounds great!

feather only a few hours to go. Does the rest of the team know you will find this painful?

[BlueBirdy]

Hi all,

Pip thanks for explaining that all - it all makes sense now! I really hope I get the planning appt sooner than they said. Hope your cycle is going well! Barking it was my Dr that raved about pregnacare (well, she said it was good and mentioned the recent study that showed a link between it and successful IVF cycles). It is weird that there is so much difference in advise given! I definitely agree that excessive vitamins can cause more harm than good (prime example is pregnant women vs pate).

Barking I also avoided DH's best mate's GF (who I really liked) until her baby was 4 month old I think the others are right as far as seeing her briefly in public may be better, and with seeing her then at least you take away the chance of an unexpected public confrontation with bump. Hope you figure out what's best and it all goes smoothly, and good to hear this acupuncture appointment went well!

Feather hope you got through the day ok

Funky can't you ask to have a different nurse? She doesn't sound very competent. Good to hear you didn't need any op at least.

Boodle you'll be on the baby board by your next one!

[CatsCantFlyFast]

Funky sorry to hear that. I would also be pushing for progesterone next time
Feather a jump that big sounds strange or a strong indicator of O. You don't have PCOS do you? Chart link so I can have a nosy?
Barking, great news the new acupuncturist sounds positive. Here's to getting your cycles sorted ASAP
Anyone heard from RP recently?

[Pipbin]

Barking. I'm going to be blunt here. You are going to have to man up and see her. It's going to be hard but you can do it. Have her over for a cup of tea and explain it to her. Tell her it's going to be hard for you. If she isn't sympathetic then tell her to fuck the fuck off. We have a friend who has recently had a baby and we have been trying longer than she has been with her DP. I struggled to see her and explained why. I recently met up with her and baby in a social situation and she was lovely. Said that I could hold the baby if I wanted but understood if I didn't want to etc.

Baseline scan went well. It seems I have a quiet uterus. Which they said was a good thing! So it's all go on the Gonal F from Sunday.

[barkingtreefrog]

I do agree with you pipbin but at the risk of boring everyone again as I'm sure I've ranted about this before the difficulty is that she has no people skills. Like zero. I explained to pg colleague it was difficult for me and she was great. It took me a couple of months to visit my mate who gave birth to twins on the day I miscarried but she understood and just gave me a hug when I got tearful. This woman is not understanding. She considers no one but herself. She is openly bitchy and upsets people on a regular basis. She will not consider my feelings, she is more likely to say something hurtful, deliberately or otherwise. Mutual friends (including DP and a mate who was her bridesmaid) have agreed that there's no point expecting any compassion for my situation. When said bridesmaid recently split up with her partner of 12 years and was in a complete mess, a few of us went out as just girls to try and cheer her up. This woman just went on and on about her wedding. Continuously, and ignoring all the not so subtle hints and attempts to change the conversation.
I think thunder is right, I need to start showing up at social gatherings she might be at and face the bump discreetly without actually having to talk to her beyond pleasantries.

[barkingtreefrog]

Are you done with work yet feather? You deserve a nice glass of wine tonight. Do others know about your history and will be sensitive at the time of the general announcement?

[HappyAmbler]

Hi again

Just catching up... I'm so sorry to hear about all the crap you're all dealing with

Boodle I'm about the 14 day luteal phase thing!!! How can a HCP working in a fertility clinic FGS think that all women have the same luteal phase???

Although I'm not surprised - noone has said that to me outright, but the GP, fertility nurse and doctor have all dismissed me when I've mentioned my concerns about my luteal phase.

And herein lies my rant...

What I'm worried about is the NHS don't seem to believe the problem I think I have exists:

I do ovulate every cycle
My luteal phase isn't great - 10/11 days
My post ovulation progesterone level is 'borderline'
I nearly always have mid-luteal spotting
My periods are light - indicating to me that my lining is probably crap

To me, it makes sense that I would have trouble getting pregnant. But AFAI understand, the NICE guidelines don't recognise so-called 'luteal phase defect' and don't advise on treatment (I think this might be where the reluctance to prescribe progesterone comes from).

Just wondered what other people's experiences are in this respect?

I've realised I have a lot more rant left in me, but I think I'll stop there for now

So finally... Since apparently you're happy to answer questions that may have been covered previously... What's the elderberry pavlova thing about?

[Pipbin]

Elderberry pavlova came from the term elderly primigravida which is used for any first time mother over the age of 34.

It's because there was a group of us on threads ages ago who were fed up with people either trying for number 4 and bitching about it or who were trying for number one but were about 23 and didn't have the same worries as us berries.

[BoodleDoo]

Oh Ambler, rant away! I get so frustrated about the luteal phase thing too. Now that I'm off clomid I've gone straight back to a 9/10 day LP with 3 days of spotting beforehand.

There was a Q & A on here awhile back with some specialists. I asked a Q and mentioned my luteal phase concerns. I was dismissed with the message that I must be ovualting around day 9 or 10 as I would definitely have a 14 day LP.

AAAAAAAAAAARGH!

So my OPKS, CBFM, CM and temps are ALL wrong then? Sulk.