TTC 10+ months thread 12

[buzzybee123]

A very friendly and supportive thread for those taking way longer than they had ever expected to make a baby.

[viviennewestwould]

Thank you so much for the welcome, ladies, I appreciate it. Buzzy, why does 40 sound so young to me?? May I ask how you are so sure about your eggs being 'crap'? I take it you're going from AMH/FSH scores? I've never had the AMH test but my FSH has been 6.5 and 8.5 in the last four months (GP surgery and hospital consultant respectively). I am convinced it is my DP's 3% sperm morphology that is the problem here. We are having one round of IUI in the New Year.

We have just bought a CBFM but I am convinced it simply encourages rabbit-like sex (who the frig wants to be shagging from CD8??) My DP has 'performance anxiety' issues which makes ejaculation around ovulation monstrously difficult - even Viagra has begun to lose its potency (probably because for it to work you have to be turned on to begin with and having sex now around ovulation has become the least sexy or spontaneous thing ever) So...I think the CBFM is going to turn out to be a waste of seventy quid and I can't help thinking that the Sperm Meets Egg Plan is all anyone actually needs.

[mrsden]

Zara the royal. I have no interest in her, it's just I saw the thread and my reaction was oh gawd not another up duffed royal. It must be another insta duff too if we assume she didn't start trying until after the Olympics.

Viv, that Fsh score sounds good to me. 3% is good too if it was the strict scale that was used, we were told 3 was normal. No one scores much more than that with the Kruger scale.

[viviennewestwould]

Mrsden, wow, I had no idea that score would be considered normal; my ineffectual consultant's lackey told me they considered 5% normal (I, naturally freaked and am now shovelling 200mg of Coenzyme Q10 into my DP every day - he's started smoking again ) What do you think of a 16 million sperm count? Do you agree that >20 million is normal? Could this be why we are struggling?

So, Zara's pregnant, is she? I must say I frightened myself at my reaction when Peaches Geldof recently announced she was preggo AGAIN. I wanted to scoop her eyeballs out with a rusty spoon

[mrsden]

Viv, the world health organisation says 15 mil or above is normal. It used to be 20 mil or above. 20 to 40 mil is considered average. Re. Morphology it depends what scale and how strict they are in grading in the lab. Our lab considers 3 or above normal. I think who says 4 or above. It could be a factor in your case, it can boil down to numbers, some would conceive no problem with these numbers but it might make it harder. My dh has very low numbers and only 1 % morphology.

I thought the same about the peachy one. It also made me feel irrationally angry when she said she thought shed had problems ttc.

[joycep]

I haven't seen the Zara thread but I thought she looked pregnant at the sports personality of the year awards a few weeks ago and she certainly looked pregnant in the photos yesterday. at Viv's rusty spoon reaction at Peaches pregnancy and she then i saw she milked it by saying she thought she was infertile. pah!

Viv - i think above 15 mil is considered normal and above 2% morph is now considered normal. Your fsh is good. I have come across people who have taken a good year or more to get pregnant after a miscarriage. It's not comforting I know but I think bodies must just go in to shock or something and take time to recover. Out of interest did your periods go back to normal after your m/c?

Buzz - it's exactly the sort of thing my MiL would do as well. I'm surprised she didn't.

mrsd - sorry about AF over xmas. Do you have a date for your lap? how are you feeling about things?

[buzzybee123]

Oh I have missed that thread no surprise if she is.

viv depends on who you ask, my FSH was first 1.8 in April and now 9.2 in October, the first specialist said my results of FSH 6.7, LH 3.1 and an E2 170 were good, the next place said with those results I'd need IVF. I've had a fertility MOT where they check your blood flow and how many follies you have, my AMH was 1.1, so either I have been very lucky to get pregnant twice or my eggs have deteriorated very quickly in a year.
As for sperm some places use the old measurements, the new ones since Dec 09 are
count:15 million
motility > 32 %
normal forms > 4 %

Taking the co enzyme won't hurt, Barry has been popping all sorts smoking won't help

I use a CBFM I think its great, I fell first month using it, my ovulation changes so it helps to keep track, this month I ovulated 4 days later than last month

Barry has 'performance issues' so we do DIY IUI well actually its just AI, I was quite surprised that you could actually do DIY IUI to be honest I think we both prefer it

[buzzybee123]

x posts with you joy
I just think buying a book on such a sensitive subject is not something you give someone at xmas, what if there were people present who didn't know, although knowing my MIL I should imagine everyone has a idea

[viviennewestwould]

Buzzy, Joy and Mrsden, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I have charted my temps since I started TTC and was surprised how quickly my cycles regulated after the MMC/ERPC. It only took two months to ovulate on the correctday again. However, when I look back at my post-miscarriage charts, I can see that, until July, my erratic progesterone levels would not have been able to maintain a pregnancy, even if I had got pregnant. The miscarriage was the end of March. Therefore, I tend to console myself that I have actually only been in the running since July - which sounds better than March

DP - one of the most selfless, caring and generous-hearted men I've ever met - started smoking again due to the commencement of a new and stressful job. I now struggle to contain my feelings of resentment that he could be so fucking selfish and cavalier about his fertility and our baby dreams. Bastard

Someone mentioned giving a brief synopsis of yourselves for the sake of the newbies. I'd like that, please.

41 yrs, ttc one year, mmc in March, 3rd Clomid cycle.

[viviennewestwould]

Buzzy, I bought a self-insemination kit from a company in India and we used it once when DP's penis was almost bleeding and he was rocking in a corner, dribbling and glassy-eyed. Do you believe the sperm survives the 30 minute wait in the cup? I was a bit about the whole concept and didn't really believe it could be so easy. What are your thoughts, please?

[buzzybee123]

viv at the bleeding, dribbling glassy eyed. I comfort eat instead of smoke/drink and have the arse and triple chin to prove it I also temp but haven't for the last few months which has been quite nice. I buy my bits of amazon, ha I do wonder if they actually know what its for 30 mins in the cup, is that how long I am supposed to leave it ??? I usually go in and do it straight away, for us its either this way or not at all at the moment, is your clomid NHS or private???

buzzy 39 and holding TTC 1 for 20 months 2 mcs @ 6 and 10 weeks. Diagnosed with high NK cells, 5 x SO one with IUI, possible crap eggs, awaiting IVF with either my own or donor eggs.

[rabbitonthemoon]

Oo, I have missed all sorts. I'm about to start Boxing Day cook off with Hare but will try and get back on here to catch up.

viv welcome, loving the posts already. Is it wrong I've just chuckled about your mans bleeding penis?! how do you know about the prog - temps? I'm so sorry about the mc. This really is a good place to hang out for company and support.

mrsnelly woo hoo!

joycep ffs I cannot believe anyone would buy someone a book about infertility as a Christmas present. Being charitable I can maybe think they might buy it as a thing to hand over on a normal day...no actually I think even that would be totally poo. Is there a book you can buy of similar inappropriate nature in return ?

I really am getting tea beckoning. Back in a bit. General Boxing Day loves all round as an amuse bouche.

Oh and just for viv. I can't bear my ttc story. On paper we are unexplained, like a Miss Marple itv effort. But actually, my fsh is borderline, DH (hare) has morphology that fluctuates between 3-7%, I just turned 36 and had a right hoo ha with a supposed fibroid this year that vanished and my womb is retroverted. Added up like a sum I'd say we are probably reproductively challenged. Ttc for 2 years minus many months of ops and procedures and post op recovery. The longer I go on at this the longer and more tedious the story gets!

[EuroShagmore]

I should probably give a synopsis of my own as I suggested it, eh?

Euro: 36, Mr Euro: 37. TTC 27 cycles (two year anniversary on NYE, let's hope I'm drunk for it). We're officially unexplained although our own investigations have shown high NK cells and two "hidden" infections. We've tried 3 x superovulation (Letrozole) 2 x unmedicated IUI and half an IVF cycle (stopped because I couldn't hack the downregging drugs - they gave me depression and anxiety). I've also tried 6 months of steroids to try to deal with the NK cells. We're trying natural IVF at Create next cycle.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

Hello everyone. I am supposed to be packing but am procrastinating by being on MN and drinking yet more .

Have spent the last few days with nephews and nieces and for some reason (were they all bribed?) they have all been doting on me. A very strange happy/sad mix but I'm so grateful to have them in my life as opposed to not!

I have FB'd some of you. Happy to befriend anyone else too. I am still in a post wedding euphoria - so many people have said "best wedding they have ever been to" type comments. One friend said if they did it again, they'd do it exactly like ours . I know people will always be kind but I do think most of them mean it! We had such a blast, and I think that is coming across in the photos I have seen so far.

Anyway I can't actually remember why I specifically wanted to post other than to say hello to Viv and hi to everyone else too! Should be ok for t'internet for the first few days of our honeymoon but I am going to try not to hang out on MN so much while we are away. Oh wait, I remembered why I was posting. Came back today to the review letter from our clinic, which just gave the overview of the case. Said that the embryos were a 4c and a 3c or something (and I quote..."ie of apparently good quality"). They have potentially recommended using EEVA next time which might tell us a bit more, but otherwise would just recommend another round the same. But the point was for Joy, to say that although my cycle didn't work, it didn't appear to be due to poor quality anything, despite my age and considerably lower AMH than yours. So none of this means you won't get there. Keep strong :)

OK that's enough procrastinating. If MrNelly sees me on here I'll be in trouble (Leave the Bastard?? )

[viviennewestwould]

Euro & Buzzy, what are NK cells and do I need to get me some? Buzzy what does 5 x SO mean, please? My Clomid is on the NHS. It is my belief they are chucking this drug at anyone and everyone as a means of shutting us up until we go for IVF. I was even ovulating, for frig's sake!
The instructions that came with my self-insemination kit said I had to wait 30 mins before transferring the sperm 'to give it time to liquify', which didn't make sense to me when you consider there's none of that bullshit during normal sex.

Rabbit, thanks for the welcome, I am a certified nut job, for sure, with a fucking horrific case of Tourette's, which I will try to temper for the sake of any sensitive types I must say, Rabbit, that yours, Buzzy and Euro's ttc journeys make me feel dizzy, you poor brave sods. I think ladies like yourselves are warriors.
P.s. I have been told that a retroverted womb has no impact whatsoever on ttc. What I have read, however, is that the usual practice of raising your hips after sex is counterproductive for someone like you - instead, you should lie on your tummy with a cushion beneath your pelvis. Makes alot of sense to me, does that.


Rabbit, the temperatures during the luteal phase are indicative of levels of progesterone and if they are rising and plummeting erratically it is evidence that a pregnancy would be unlikely to continue. Progesterone is needed to keep an embryo viable until the placenta takes over.

During my first appointment with the consultant I questioned how a day 21 score of 18.5 could be interpreted as my having not ovulated when my charts clearly showed I had. He replied that I may well have ov'd but with that progesterone score I would not be able to sustain a pregnancy. Since being on Clomid I have released two eggs each time and scored 71.6 and 106.8 on day 21! Shame it resulted in fuck-all both times [each]

[viviennewestwould]

I do not know where '[each]' came from.

MrsNelly, we cross-posted. Thank you for the welcome. Married, eh? Jammy sod I would be entirely happy to share my fb page with any of you if it were not for the fact that my statuses over the last months have been sanctimonious/judgemental/opinionated/ scathing/beastly/fucking filthy/profane/angry/downright rude and insulting...and all because I want a baby. Desperately .

[rabbitonthemoon]

nelly leave the bastard! Your wedding pics look beautiful and it is nice to 'see you in person'. Listen, have the bestest time on your honeymoon, give not a thought to ttc and enjoy. Can't wait to hear all about it.

sar I'm so glad you had a great time at the wedding. I think it is essential to take time out of thinking about procreating at times. You are far more than a womb and stepping aside from MN is essential sometimes. It was important to me in October, I need head clearance. Take care of you and report back on here post lap to let us know you are ok.

mrsden I'm so sorry your period came in Christmas Day. How shitty. And I've left myself in the shit I've got no tampon situation too many times. I resist buying them in the vain hope I won't need them. So last month I bought 6 boxes. Go me. But I'm glad Xmas was ok for you in the end.

euro glad your gran was better this year. Mine is frail and GRUMPY. Love her to bits. But I miss my old gran and it makes me sad that I'm forgetting her as she was.

buzzy how goes the pavlova? Yummmm.

Art how was sober Xmas!? Have you told many people yet?

critter yay at red squirrels. I grew up surrounded by them. But then the pox got them. Boo hoo

pout how was Christmas lovely?

doll how's the uk been?

teu glad to hear about the confirmation

lemon how you feeling?

I've had a good Christmas. Last year I was 3 days post lap and bombshell and beside myself and the year before I was scared after trying and it not working instantly. This year has felt a lot more normal. I think this signifies some kind of acceptance that I am not a very fertile person and that having children will be a miracle rather than a given. And it doesn't feel as stabby and heart wrenchy as it has done. I had a moment or two of how did this happen I should have babies unwrapping presents right now? But mostly it didn't occupy my head too much. Frankly, I am looking towards a future of adoption and dog buying. It will be amazing if I'm proved wrong.

At the risk of being maudlin, there are good things to come out of this whole sorry shit hand of cards. I am immensely grateful for the support that you lot have given me through the horrendous year I've had in terms of medical things. Having met a number of you in real life I know that these are friendships that will keep on going and that is lovely. I realised today that it is often me that my friends call when they are having issues with babies as there is no competition or fixed views on things. It's good to be an auntie. I'm in a good relationship and have no need at all to post on relationships! I think I always get very reflective at this bit of the year. But for anyone reading/lurking - it does get easier. If someone had told me I'd be calmer at 2 years ttc than 8 months I would have laughed in their face. But for me, I have developed an odd serendipity kind of calm. Sure there are shite days/weeks when things look bleak. But it is what is. Surgeries and treatments are hard. Getting my period isn't as hard anymore. What a ramble/essay. Sorry ! I hope with all hope that there are bfps for all of us in 2013. And I don't even like odd numbers!

[viviennewestwould]

Rabbit, what a fantastic message that was. It gave me great hope when I read that you are more at peace after two years than you were at eight months. That is really important for me to hear and I thank you.

[buzzybee123]

rabbit glad you had a lovely xmas :) I agree the longer it goes on the calmer I feel

viv I can't any NHS help, SO is super ovulation which is what you are on, its just to increase the amount of eggs for the sperm to hit NK cells are supposedly the reason why I keep miscarrying, they attack the embryo my AI equipment is just specimen jars and syringes, not an actual pack but will look into it, although when Barry has given a SA we had to get it there within 60 mins so I would imagine that some would die off, I'll have to look into it all :)

[ArtemisTheHunter]

Hello all

Glad to hear most people have had a good Christmas, though i'm sorry about poorliness joycep and AF's unwelcome arrival gin and mrsden. Not fair. Gin MrA went to a work do just before xmas and replicated Dave's enthusiastic vomiting to the extent that I had to retreat to the spare room. At least i was forewarned and could hide my toothbrush

It's lovely to be connected to a few people on fb. I shall pm others to track you down, I've guessed that some mutual friends might be 10+ers but of course I don't know who is who. Would love to see wedding pics MrsNelly. As for MNing on honeymoon - surely you'll be busy doing other things?!

Viv welcome, you've come to a good place for loads of support and I don't recall anyone ever getting told off for swearing, or indeed for grossness, bitchiness or smut which is just as well . I'll be 40 next year and have got very sick of all and sundry assuming I am some swivel-eyed career obsessive who selfishly didn't want to have children any younger and is now selfishly demanding to have them at my geriatric age. My story: 2.5-ish years of ttc, mc at 6 weeks one year in, all tests proved 'normal' therefore we were unexplained. I had 5 months of clomid despite ovulating already which did bugger all (I agree with you, they prescribe it because it's cheap and gets you off their case for 6 months, but the new NICE guidelines no longer recommend it if you are ovulating. Have you had an hsg to check your tubes?). Finally did one round of IVF which miraculously and unexpectedly resulted in a BFP 6 weeks ago. Still haven't got my head around that, hence refusing to leave this thread and go wherever it is the pregnant people go. The smoking thing would drive me nuts. My DP only gave up after 18 months of ttc and an mc, and after me going on about it for the entirety of our relationship. A year down the line he is still reliant on nicotine patches. It is so hard to quit. I lost my dad to lung cancer so feel very very strongly about it. I don't have any advice to offer, just bucketloads of sympathy, but I suspect know that the nagging i did might have been counterproductive.

Sar I completely understand you needing to stay away from here for a bit. We are here if you need us. Do let us know how your lap goes though. Festive tinsel-clad hugs.

Doll hope you're not feeling the damp, or actually submerged...

Critter glad you're having a good trip. Red squirrels, lovely!

Buzzy and Teu I've been watching the Lord of the Rings films, a gift to the NZ tourist board, made me want to book a holiday

Joycep yes I'm exactly 8 weeks (one benefit of IVF is there is no confusion over dates). I still don't feel pregnant. Aside from a few minor bouts of nausea i have not felt sick at all, not been sick, not felt particularly tired, in fact the only real symptoms I have are sore boobs, frequent dizzy spells and continuous hunger. All of those things I could attribute to the progesterone supplements. Keep having to remind myself that I did see a heartbeat two weeks ago but I am very aware that I'm still in the danger zone, though past the point of my previous MC. It's a relief to have another scan booked for next week (the other benefit of IVF is they are keen on early scans).

Rabbit a dry Christmas has been surprisingly OK, though we haven't been to any parties and the people we've visited have all been car journeys so driving is a good excuse. New year will be more of a test as we'll be in a pub from about 7pm and Mr A will be getting steadily and tediously pissed which tends to bring out the uptight judgy pants in me. At least we'll avoid an expensive taxi home . I've told nobody apart from my mum and the couple of close friends who knew about the IVF. We have agreed to wait until at least the 12 week scan, possibly longer. At the moment I feel like I'd prefer not to tell anyone until I have to. It feels like tempting fate . I'm also unsure whether I'll want people to know we had IVF. I doubt it's something I'll announce unless people are rude enough to ask.

sorry that was a very long essay to answer a very simple question! I struggled with the whole thing about telling people my ttc woes and this feels just like an extension of that really. I am a very private person, unless of course it comes to broadcasting intimate details of my personal life to the whole world via the internet

Rabbit I also liked your comments on the good things to come out of this shitfest. I also felt stronger after 2 years than I did 8 months in, to the point where over the past year i've been focusing on the positives of not having kids and coming to terms with a child free life, and went into IVF expecting it not to work. Now I have to shift my perspective again and it's a bit uncomfortable. Every time we see someone struggling with a particularly vile child, or see an advert for one of those godawful 'family' holiday resorts, Mr A raises an eyebrow at me in a 'what have we done?' kind of way and I have to admit I raise one back. That sounds awful doesn't it .

i'm sorry, I came on here intending to catch up and instead I have been selfishly going on about myself . I shall shut up now and just send big waves and tail feather shakes to everyone instead

[Naokosan]

Hi everyone, hope Christmas went well? I've had a bit of a hectic time so only popped in to say hello.

Congrats nelly on the wedding, hope the honeymoon is fabulous.

Welcome Viv, I'm also a newbie but have already found many words of empathy and encouragement from this lovely thread.

Hello to everyone else

Just to mark my spot: me 33, DH 35, teetering on the edge of ttc cycle 14. No tests so far other than some inconclusive investigations into pre-menstrual spotting. Will be starting the ball rolling as soon as January hits.

No AF for me over Christmas do far, just red spotting which is getting heavier. If my usual 10 day LP is in place it means I didn't ov this month (if at all) until day 25. Is that too late for anything to be viable?

Here's to a 2013 thread bursting at the seams with well earned BFPs. I have everything I have two of crossed for us all.

[Naokosan]

P.s I am in shock at the insensitivity of an infertility book gift!

[viviennewestwould]

Artemis & Naokosan (wails: I can't pronounce your name!) thank you for welcoming me. Artemis, I was told I didn't need the tube check as I was pregnant in January. Do you have an opinion on this, please? Congratulations on your IVF BFP...another warrior!

Ladies, please can you help me? I hate to bring first-world problems to the thread but I'm at 4DPO and this morning's temp has dropped below the coverline [wails louder]. Would you please put down your Times/DH/croissant/gin and take a look at my chart? Please? I'm refusing to leave the house to go to Tesco until someone reassures me I could still technically be preggo with these temps

//www.fertilityfriend.com/home/viviennewestwould

[lovesLemonDrizzleCake]

Welcome viv. Although I am definitely a veteran TTC I only ever temped for two months way back in spring 2011, so I can't give you any real advice on the chart. Except wait and see. It is not like you can do anything about it now so go to Tesco's and buy some reduced to clear great christmas treats.

Our Christmas was SHIT. On Christmas day I was all over the place emotionally, and on boxing day SB took over. The year 2012, frankly, sucked. The MC was brought back quite forcefully by seeing friends due on either side of what would have been - they have real diffed bellies and feel things and

Right, quick round up for the newbies:
lemon and SB, both 33, unexplained, TTC since summer 2010, now 11dpIUI for 5th IUI, 4th IUI+SO worked, BFP in August, MC in Sept, couple of months off AC after, just started again in Dec.

Waves and drooping tail feathers to you all. Yay for the fabulous wedding, though.

[buzzybee123]

afternoon ladies,

viv although I temp I usually just write it down in my ledger not on a chart, I did have one month where it did drop but usually it stayed up, it could have dropped for a number of reasons, I'm a bit lax with taking my temp,its supposed to be first thing and at a certain time, mine is as and when so it could be that the timing was a bit off. Try not to worry and see what your temp is like is tomorrow. Like lemon said go get some nice treats and see what tomorrow brings.

lemon sorry about your Christmas, seeing friends in that situation is tough, I had to listen to MIL ask the 'aunt' about her grandsons, I was tempted to say 'do you really think Barry and I want to listen to some woman talk about her skanky non working daughter and her two sprogs by two different dad' do your friends know about your miscarriage???

art I have only seen one of the LOR and was bored to tears, I refuse to watch it or the Hobbit. But home does look pretty in it


nao as long as you have a 10 day LP then anything is possible

rabbit I have yet to look up pavlova recipe, I'm sure my old faithful Edmonds cookbook has it in there.

I have just cleaned the flat and the fridge, have other things I should be doing but just can't be arsed

[EuroShagmore]

Viv looking back at your charts, you've had a dip at some point in the LP most months, so it doesn't look unusual for you. I don't think a temporary dip is a problem and there is something called an implantation dip which means a temp dip can be a good sign.

We've been to The Sales. I want a badge saying "I went to Stratford Westfield and survived". I didn't think the sales were great, tbh. I bought some khaki skinnies that were in the sale and a ski jacket type thing for shooting that wasn't. What I really wanted were jumpers for work and I didn't see anything suitable.