TTC Super Ovulation part 3

[Arianrhod]

Hey ladies -

There are a few of us who are ttc after mc's, however there will be ladies out there who are also ttc for the first time or second or third without success. If anyone is on, considering or had success on a super ovulation programme then do join us. How long did it take ? Did you try IUI with it.. ? Did you have PCOS?

Kicking this off and hoping some of you will join....

part 1 here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1385998-TTC-Super-Ovulation

Part 2 here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1475108-TTC-Super-Ovulation-part-2?pg=1

Ok breezy! Well that does go someway to explaining a few things. My DH was 33 percent last may. We got tested for hidden infections (both had one) despite no other tests picking this up. Got prescribed hard core anti bs for a month. Both of us. Then we had to take a pro biotic to get good bacteria back. Re tested in sep it was 22 percent. He cut down on wine but still drinks it, lots of anti oxidants lots of colourful veg and fruit the more colour the better. He takes a cocktail of vits. Which I can email u when I get home. He cut down on caffine. His level when re tested in feb was 15.1 percent normal. Apparently anything over 30 percent has 1 percent chance of live birth. But it does take 90 days to get new sperm produced so I would suggest you try this for 12 weeks. They can also do something in selection process to get less damaged sperm if they know there r quality issues. I need to look this up. It might seem bad news but on a positive note it might explain that it isn't all down to your bad eggs. His issue is probably fixable.. But I hear u loud and clear. Again another test I think dr s should have on his protocol list. Ignoring the male is just plain ignorant I feel afterall they make up half the baby and these DNA issues are not detectable on standard sperm analysis tests.

Ok breezy! Well that does go someway to explaining a few things. My DH was 33 percent last may. We got tested for hidden infections (both had one) despite no other tests picking this up. Got prescribed hard core anti bs for a month. Both of us. Then we had to take a pro biotic to get good bacteria back. Re tested in sep it was 22 percent. He cut down on wine but still drinks it, lots of anti oxidants lots of colourful veg and fruit the more colour the better. He takes a cocktail of vits. Which I can email u when I get home. He cut down on caffine. His level when re tested in feb was 15.1 percent normal. Apparently anything over 30 percent has 1 percent chance of live birth. But it does take 90 days to get new sperm produced so I would suggest you try this for 12 weeks. They can also do something in selection process to get less damaged sperm if they know there r quality issues. I need to look this up. It might seem bad news but on a positive note it might explain that it isn't all down to your bad eggs. His issue is probably fixable.. But I hear u loud and clear. Again another test I think dr s should have on his protocol list. Ignoring the male is just plain ignorant I feel afterall they make up half the baby and these DNA issues are not detectable on standard sperm analysis tests.

I have tried to post on here so many times since yesterday but had wifi problems and keep loosing my message!!

Brown I was so sorry to read about your scan. I had a long and drawn out miscarriage at 7wks and Mr S took some tissue at the end as was taking so long to go naturally. Even then they were able to tell me it would have been a boy, not sure I would have chosen to know but they accidentally let slip on the phone. Makes it so much more real....
If you need to talk about it or have a rant it anything you know we are all here for you, sending a big hug.

Mel we went to Puerto Aventura in the Riviera Maya and was so lovely, I am sure you will really like it.

Wow Lemon 30 wks, think you need to do some baby shopping soon!

Breezy what a bugger about the results, I know it's no consolation but understand that feeling of one thing after another. You are in good hands though and between the Lister and Duggs and will be able to get it sorted.

Well I get my humira tomorrow and have started back properly on all the vits. Can I ask what vits you all give your oh's? I was just giving mine Wellman fertility ones but wondering if I should give him anything else while preparing for the final push so to speak.

Sorry if I missed anyone, on iPhone do can't scroll back.

Duggs thanks so much for the info. I do remember reading that you'd had the hidden C testing. It isn't something that we have had done, but it was on the mega long list of tests that Dr G said I should have when I popped for a consult with him in November. The number of tests and £££ scared me, which looking back now is stupid, since most are tests that the Lister have suggested and we have done. I went on my own though as OH was being precious about all things IVF back then. Strangely enough the Lister didn't suggest the hidden infections testing and I forgot to ask, but will definitely put it on the list of questions for the next app. I'd love if you could message me the list of vits. I did get some 1000mg vit c disolvable tablets in Sainsburys today as he likes taking them, (but not others!) and will pretend to do some ?research? online tonight and let him know he needs to start back on his wellman conception vits. I mean how hard is it to swallow a couple of tablets every day when you are presented them with your tea and juice in bed every morning???!!
I'll definitely get the fruit and veg levels up, although we do eat quite a bit already and I'll get him on more avocadoes too as he loves them and they are good for vit e which I read earlier can also help. He definitely needs to cut down on the wine, but as he is a stubborn bugger I'll have to wait and see how that one goes.

Pebbles good luck with the humira!

Hei pebbles! Ok I'm sat her in the "passion pit" that is our bedroom looking at all the bottles on each if our bedside cabinets. Looks more like an old people's home than a youngish couples bedroom with all these mess lined up.

BioCare - Bio-Antioxidant 20000
BioCare - NutriGuard Plus ( antioxidant complex with bits A,C,E, zinc & selenium)
Cod liver oil 1000mg (lemon flavour?)
well man conception
And he still takes a Maca tablet a day

Sounds a bit much maybe but the bio care tablets were recommended by zita west clinic. Have done no harm.

Breezy I think if you were able to get hold of a strong anti biotic for you and DH to take ( we took a tablet a day for 21 days) then any infections that lay hidden should be wiped out? All via serum clinic in Athens where ari is going. There were folk who just did that rather than mucking about with the tests and results etc. Am sure you sound like you are in good hands with the lister so at least try with the vitamins. Best of luck. Wouldn't worry too much about the wine DH and I had just gotten back from 3 weeks in Australia one of which was spent in the hunter valley vineyards is all I can say!

Forgot to update as I am waiting for NHS IVF to move ahead. Looks like August is going to be the month? The dr noticed my high TSH result ( hight for ttc). It was 2 in aug 2011 in feb 2013 it was 2.4 in march 2013 it was 2.57 so it is over the between 1&2 range which does explain why I'm not getting pregnant these days at all. Probably a cause of the steroids ( which I don't take these days ) will do on BFP just to be safe. She is writing to my dr asking him to prescribe me a low dose of thyroxine. Seems simple enough.
May as well wait until I have some in my system b4 I start gonal F attempt that dr s sent me.

Anyway who else is where else on ttc journey?

Ari - serum
Breezy - lister
Pebbles - create???
Duggs - hammersmith NHS
Sue - create?
Mel - gonal F

Who else am I missing?

Choccy is au natural so far of course!

Really does the steroids do that?? At least you have a plan now duggs. I
Hope you got my pm I sent it on my phone so never convinced if it gets sent!! X

Hypothyroidism is listed in the pred side effects list yes so it can, but I was prob always borderline anyway? How r you mel?

Mel I think the official line is that no it does not. However, for the one year I took pred I did not get pregnant other than one chemical pregnancy. I had never had a problem before getting pregnant. I stopped taking the meds in the summer and by Oct I had my BFP. I know I am not the only one like that from being on the board. Mr S was suggesting SO because I was not getting pregnant anymore. I suspect the pred stops pregnancy in somepeople but not others. I know other peoples cycles have lengthened or changed whilst on pred. So I guess it is a bit trial and error.

How long does it normally take for the tsh level to go down Duggs? I am thinking I should email Louise and see if I can get a prescription for some thyroxine as well as my levels are higher than yours. Nhs probably won't give it to me as they were quite happy with 2.8 saying it was normal....

Well just taken my first humira and have to say was far less painful than clexane in fact only hurt a bit.

Duggs we are going to the thames spire which is a satellite clinic of the lister. The collection and transfer is done in London but all the scans etc are in Wexham. I am a firm believer that pred messes up my cycles as prior to first taking it in sep 2011 I was conceiving in the first or 2nd month of trying. I didn't get pregnant until December when I started in SO which ended in a chemical and then conceived again in Jan with another chemical on SO. I then stopped all meds for 3 cycles and conceived scarlet on the first try in may 2012 without being on pred. Since losing her I waited until my period came back and then started the pred again. I don't know if its either me being peri-menopausal, the termination messing me up or the steroids but my cycles are still either 24 or 36 days whereas they were 26 before. I am sure its due to the steroids so didn't take them last month and won't this month either. I am still on hydroxy though. In the zita west book it says preds can interfere with ovulation.

I also agree green tea helps as drank that with my last pregnancy so will plan to do it again. I have read that women who miscarry tend to have too low levels of protein too so plan on increasing that this month. Zita west also talks about using a hot water bottle around the lower abdomen around ovulation. Not sure how many things to follow to be honest without it becoming obsessive!

Starting the down reg drugs in a few weeks and then will see next month if I have enough eggs to retrieve. The spire is not wasting any time with me which I am glad of!

Read that ivf has better success rates in spring and summer so if anyone is putting it off to the autumn this might sway them to start earlier.

If ivf doesn't work for me I will be going back to SO as think my body needs kick starting.

I was told at the lister that they could keep testing me for all sorts of things but at the end of the day most of the treatments are the same as I am on anyway without spending thousands which we don't want to do on top of ivf and intrallipids etc. I still think a lot of it is down to luck in catching the viable egg which no one can test for.. A lot of the clinics are stopping ivigs as there have been a few women catching infections.

Good news sue that you can get on with it ! How r u finding the lister? Pebbles Louise said dr s prefers the TSH level to be under 2.5 ( I did raise an eyebrow as he has never suggesting testing this in 18 of ttc with him? Good fertility folk say they like to see between 1 & 2 TSH once you get some thyroxine into you it can take as little as 3-4 weeks to turn things around I've read. Who knows but glad to now know. Hope everyone else doing ok- brown how r u feeling honey?

To be honest duggs the consultant there didn't fill either of us with much hope but I have heard he prefers to be more realistic. We know ivf is likely to fail but stil want to try so that I know we have tried every possible route. Have only had the initial appointment so will see how we find them once it comes to treatment. If they can't collect any eggs they will turn it into a SO treatment instead and won't charge us for a full go at ivf. That pleased DH!

Does anyone know if the docs can test for tsh on nhs? I will try and get it done next week if that's the case so that if I need it treated I can start before ivf.

Yes they can sue- is simple test just need to get the TSH level and then dr s or whoever could write perscription! Don't think GP up to date with fertility TSH levels. Am sure you guys r fine as nice and slim, I'm a fat heffer after all this treatment so trying to get more active!

Duggs that's fab thanks so much for all the vitamin info. To be honest the struggle now is going to be getting him to take anything. He spat his dummy out about it all the other night saying he didn't want to talk about it and was getting sick and tired of the whole thing. Join the club, eh??!! Didn't want keep on and pee him off as we are at SWI time, quite why we bother I don't know, but I suppose I always secretly hope that there might be some sort of divine intervention! Am wondering if I could get these supplements and somehow add them to his food without him knowing!!

pebbles glad the humira shot went well and wasn't too painful.

Sue I've read about the extra protein during stimming and also the hotwater bottle trick too. All things I have jotted down for if/when we get going with our IVF. You're right though, there are just so many things that people swear by and I reckon it must be easy to become obsessed... like I am not obsessed already!
Exciting that you'll be starting to down reg in a few weeks. Have they told you what protocol you'll be doing? It's great news too that they'll convert to SO if they can't collect any eggs. I hear you with the knowing it's likely to fail comment, it's how I feel too, but I think that if we don't try then there will always be that nagging ?what if we'd tried? in my head. I think if we get the go ahead for IVF then we'll have to take it in stages and not get our hopes up, although I always find that very hard not to do!

My best friend has just started down reg on her 1st NHS cycle. Her DH has big sperm issues and she has a very low AMH too. Am really happy for her, but also peed off that she gets an NHS go with an AMH level of 3pmol/l and I get nothing with them because of my AMH and my history of rm and them not wanting me to go through any more distress!! WTF? That reason in its self causes me distress! Different PCT in London to me, but still shows how unfair the whole NHS IVF system is. Rant over!

Hope you all have good weekends and let's hope we get some sun and warmth tomorrow!

This sounds so much more positive now ladies!
Why are some oh hopeless at swallowing a pill?! I got mine to take antibiotics from serum by producing it with tea! He's hopeless at taking wellman. I even bought maca powder and put it in our stews but he noticed!( desperate eh?!)
Well done pebbles on the humira and I bet you did it yourself too so brave!!
Yey the suns out even if it back to work next week :(
Is anyone at newlife tomorrow?? Xx

My DH forgets his wellman tablets all the time so it does feel very one sided. Just got back from a holiday to the Isle of Wight and I was only having one glass of red wine a night whereas he was drinking lots of beer! Feels like I am constantly watching what I am eating and drinking.

duggs wish I was slim but over the last few years my weight has gone up after all the pregnancies. I put on over a stone with the last one but I suppose that's normal as I did get to nearly 6 months. My bmi is now well into the overweight section on the chart. Have lost around 10 pounds since feb but could do with losing another stone. Joined a gym last month but conscious that exercise increases nkc levels. Who knows what to do for the best. Will try and book in for the tsh test at my gp.

On a positive note, glad the weather seems to be getting warmer as I think it helps in TTC!

breezy maybe we should combine our lists and put them on here to help others? It might also apply to natural conception. I am a firm believer in you get what you pay for so think private ivf will be more thorough than nhs treatment. I agree its annoying about your friend though getting it for free!

Think Ari is the true supplement expert. If you want any advice/ knowledge she is usually the one to ask. Would be good to have a list of what is recommended and why though.

Thank you to everyone for your support, and info on the karytyping. I'm okay. Lots of strangely ambivalent feelings, which at first I guiltily tried to repress but have realised I need to acknowledge to know what to do next. To be honest, I had been getting very low while pregnant, partly physical, with relentless exhaustion and the side effects of pred, but also despondent about the chances of success of the pregnancy, and the continual anxiety, and very miserable on my gluten-free diet, and I admit that a small part of what I felt on miscarriage was relief and freedom. While pregnant I was suddenly able to see all the arguments that my DH had been continually putting forward against having a child, my previous mental illness after the birth of our DS, the money, the stress. While we'd been TTC, I could only see one side, the overwhelming urge to conceive, and that it was all a means to an end that was very worthwhile. While pregnant I began to see that the means was also important. That's not to say that I'm not also devastated, because I am, but I haven't felt quite what I expected. But it's early days, and I seem to oscillate between coping quite well and days when I just cry. Sorry, me, me, me.
Out of interest, has anyone had karotyping that showed no abnormalities?
As to lists, mine would include 1.5g l-arginine, 200mg co-enzyme q-10 (meant to be 600mg but couldn't afford it), selenium, magnesium. And Conceive Plus. The month I conceived I had just started using all of those except the co-enzyme q-1o which I'd been using for ages.
Interesting about what people have been saying about protein. I'm vegan and haven't been paying too much attention to my protein levels lately and they are probably quite low.
Sue, I hear you with the weight. I haven't weighed myself but I'm sure I'm a stone and a half heavier than 2 months ago. I'm looking really quite pregnant, and I have to cover my belly with my bag to avoid people asking, just at the point when there is no longer any baby.

Hun just wanted to give you a hug. You will feel so many emotions at the moment feeling rational doesnt come into it! One day at a time I hope you find strength to do what's right for you and oh. Youl be in my thoughts on Wednesday xx and noone should feel they have to justify themselves to anyone be it about weight or otherwise!! Xx

Thanks Mel xxx

Keeping a brief eye on the thread while I'm out of the country but 3G is playing up so can't often post. In a restaurant at the mo and using their wifi! Huge hugs to you brown, I understand exactly what you're saying. Take care of yourself xx

Very quickly but if anyone is interested I'll post my supplement list when I get back - I've detailed exactly what each supplement is supposed to help for too.

Catch up properly soon, love to all xx