Assisted Conception (and the bits in between) Volume 10

[MoJangled]

Our new home, hope you all find me soon...

Ginger I am so sorry.

Mo am amazed and delighted and just want to say hope all goes well.

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Hi all, just for anyone who remembers me, we are through the first bit, the initial visit and we are going to do training in January, still a long way to go in our adoption journey but we are finally on the bus!

Hugs to all.

Mo, huge congrats! I am thrilled for you!

Italian, so glad you are on your way with the adoption journey. Hope all goes well and smoothly for you and DH.

Sarlat are you testing today? All the very best of luck.

Thanks all of you lovely ladies for your messages of sympathy. I am still shocked, and desperately sad but trying to get my life back on track and look to the future. I'm not ready to give up just yet.

Waves to all.

Morning all,
Ginger I think you are being really brave. Make sure you spend lots of time on yourself and look after yourself.

sarlat good luck!

Mo Congrats! Great news :)

Everyone one else hello hope things are going well for you all.

AFM day 8 of stimming, awaiting my daily blood test right now. Think I'm 'coasting' as they've told me to stop the Gonal-f injections. Haven't had any scans (NHS) but am gonna push for one. Feel a bit nervous now, nothing has been really explained to me and I'm finding out things from Internet research which I know is always dangerous! I realuse i have to be more pushy but i do feel it woulde be nice just to be TOLD stuff without having to push. Anyway....Still feeling positive and fairly chilled but do keep get nervous flutters. Really hoping everything is ok.

Best of luck ladies, thinking of you all.

Mo - that is suberb news. Congratulations - what a well deserved win.

Not so good here, I'm afraid. BFN this morning with signs of period on her way. I'm ok but very sad of course. I need to hurl myself in to making a new plan. Ladies I would really really appreciate any pointers of what to do next......

2.5 years of ttc. Conceived 2.5 years ago easily but m/c at 5.5 weeks. Since then - nothing. I am 32. I have had reflexology, accupuncture and maya massage over the months and years to help me. DH'S SA is bordeline / ok morphology / motility and very high counts.

1 fresh ivf failed and now 1 FET (natural cycle) failed. Both SET and good blasto's and good womb lining with no signs of problems on the scans. Collected 10 eggs, 9 fetilised and got 4 good blasts and 2 bordeline blasts - egg and sperm does not appear to be an issue.

They found a hydrosaplinx (swollen and toxic fluid tube) at HSG in Jan but no sign of inflamed tubes on ultrasounds which mostly suggests a small amount of swelling, if any which is not always present - also I have no symptoms of this such as discharge or pain. The Dr's advised me to consider tubal removal to increase IVF chances of success - gulp, don't feel this is the answer and very frightened by this. However both tubes are open although slow flowing dye which suggests some level of damage with both. This leaves me with a very small possibility of natural conception and this is one of the reasons why I can't stand the thought of tubal removal. My current consultant isn't in a rush to remove the tubes as she isn't sure that the tubes are causing signicant problems at this stage - although can't be discounted either and she may come back to this. They think the tubal damage was caused by the miscarriage (sometimes nasty blood can find it's way in to the tubes). No history of STD's.

My gut feeling is something immune related could be happening. I have recurrent but mild mouth ulcers (thought to be herpes symplex 1 ie cold sore virus) on the hard palate about 6-12 times per year and these flared up terribley 2-3 days after this transfer, along with a heavy cold and very sore throat. I did unfortunatley got a bout of herpes down below years ago (not STD) and this was the same strain as the mouth ulcers (symplex1). I know mouth ulcers / herpes are a sign of ongoing virul attack - could this be effecting an embryo too?

My clinic are not inclined to do immune tests but my new consultant is a little more open minded and I'm guessing would discuss this with me. I am on my first NHS round with 3 blasto's left in the freeze (2 likely good quality).

I want to do FET again but fear another failiure as everyone expected this to work.

So sorry for the me me me post, any pointers about what could be going wrong? Thank you. x

Crossed post

Cat - good luck hon - I would push for a scan. It's nice to see the size of the follies for reassurance.

Ginger - really sorry that you are going through this. Sometimes I just want to press the fast forward button to the next bit. I agree to planning for the future. Good luck my lovely. x

sarlat i'm really sorry about your BFN. I'd definitely push for immune testing as quite often unexplained problems in getting pregnant or miscarriages are down to immunes. They are also more likely to occur the older you get. I have a ds (5) conceived naturally and easily. Two years later I got preg again quickly but miscarried. After more years of trying and failing to get pregnant we went to the ARGC. They diagnosed immune issues and put me on medication to bring down immune levels in prep for IVF, but we didn't get that far. As soon as my immunes came down I got pregnant naturally.

Sarlat I am so sorry. I can understand your need to find out what other issues there are before using your other blasts. I woudl push for immune testing - we did that after our first failed cycle. The best money we ever spent!! I just couldn't wait for 3 failed cycles before we did it, and was at a Care clinic which thankfully did Immune testing. Some of the medication for immune issues is really simple, such as aspirin etc. I learnt my thyroid was too high explaining my weight gain over the years, so it helped a lot. Also my dh took supplements to improve his motility and numbers, although it takes at least 3 months for sperm to replenish so he could start them now if not already on any. All the best.

Sarlat honey I'm so sorry about your bfn. . Sounds like you've been v diligent with the acupuncture.

It really might be worth looking into immunes. After my mc in jan I was mentalling about immunes - there's so much info out there. Also there's a v good thread on ff, will look it out for you and repost. I went to see an immunes specialist - dr Gorgy. Well reputed but I just wasn't feeling it. Also the prospect of £5/10k was impossible for us (in addition to the £???? we've already spent and are spending on donor cycles). In the end I had mini immunes done at my own clinic which showed something. And therefore meds were tweaked for round two (sadly we got a bfn with that FET). But I do feel a bit more in control as I face into round 3

Sarlat Sorry to hear your news, sending you a virtual squeeze. I don't know anything about immunes but know that lots of the lovely ladies on here do so I hope that info helps. Pushing for testing can never be a bad thing to try and get some answers.

Cat I don't think it's unusual for you to not have been scanned yet on an NHS cycle - I can certainly remember long periods between mine on my cycle. I know what you mean about lack of information from the clinic some of the time. I hope yours give you some more info as that helps to feel at least a teeny bit more in control of things!

Mo Mini-badger and I are both doing a little jig of joy for you - congrats!!! Mini-Mo has a nice ring to it too

Sunny Nice to hear from you again. I'm due 21 Jan which creeps ever closer!

wooo hoo! mo that is absolutely fantastic news! As my Mum says good things come to those who wait. And who's to argue with a wise old Greek lady! I am so, so happy for you. You rest up and enjoy this special time.

And Italian wonderful news your adoption journey is progressing. How much longer do you think it all may take?

pocket you are next my friend. Glad scan went well.

badger wow Jan 21 will really be here in no time. And now that you know you are team pink you can shop up a storm!

Cat I had 2 IUI cycles on the NHS and from my memory we had quite a few scans, but I think each NHS hospital/clinic is quite different. Although don't be afraid to ask about these things.

ginger I know how you feel about making a plan. Definitely don't give up yet. I'm only now just feeling ready to start really planning about our next move after our MC in June, but all this time I've been mulling over the options and forming ideas or plans in my head. Don't stop believing!

Sarlet I am very sorry to hear your news. I don't know heaps about immune testing, but from what I understand of it, it makes perfect sense to me. There's a book called 'Is your Body Baby Friendly' but the original Immunes guru Dr Beer. Actually Dr Gyorky worked or studied under him. I found the book a bit too much, quite a lot of medical terms, but the essence of it made a lot of sense to me. I'd definately look into it. In the meantime big hugs to you and your DH.

Yes Sarlat - I really recommend the Dr Beek book sunnyg recommended, it really helped me realise that immune testing ws the way to go for me. Also if doing immune testing Dr Gorgy will do stand alone immune testing - however not everyone likes him, he is hard to understand apparently and is very expensive. That is why some people get their clinics to do the immune testing for them. My Gp (I forgot to say this) did half of my level 1 immune tests for me (the basics - blood clotting, thyroid, prolactin levels etc).

Sarlat here's the link - this is a massive thread but its quite famous for being so comprehensive. Hope it helps www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=242395.0

Italian that's really fab news. Hope the process works quickly for you x

Sunny my dear, what's next for you?

I got a call from the clinic about an hour ago. Donor is ready to go. So we're both on all the meds to prep here for ec and me for transfer.... just taken a handful of pills and done my first clexane jab. so far so good....

Dont stop believing

ginger I am so, so sorry to hear your news. I was so hoping it would turn out differently. Thinking of you.

sarlat I'm really sorry to hear about your negative test. I can tell you about argc if you are interested in immunes as they are one of the best for that.

Mo congrats on mini mo!!! Rest up and hope you have an uneventful journey from here.

Warning - me post! I'm really struggling tonight. I'm exhausted from all the early starts and was so sure would trigger tonight but got the call at 7:15 to say am coating again. Which means 5:30 am start again tomorrow. Just don't think I have it in me sorry for the self pitying ramble

Yeah Pocket, good to hear your donor is ready to go, and you're both onto the next stage - woop woop!

Mini Hang on in there. 5.30am starts is enough to make anyone miserable (and I entirely empathise as I am waking up at 5am at the latest every day at the moment so know how depressing it is) but think of it as one less 5.30am tomorrow than you ever have to do again. Early night for you and then try and get a nap in on Saturday to recharge your batteries...

Just came across these lyrics from a song called Believe. I rather like it.

Believe in me
I know you've waited for so long
Believe in me
Sometimes the weak become the strong
Believe in me
This life is not always what it seems
Believe in me
Cause I was made for chasing dreams

Believe - and chase those dreams ladies xx

Sarlat, so sorry to hear of your BFN. I think it would be worthwhile you pushing for immune testing too, even if it turns out that is not your problem, then it is something else to cross off your list and if it is that and it is treatable then it has to be worth a go.

Go Pocket go!

Cat, I know what you mean about NHS cycles and lack of info.. unfortunately you do have to do all the pushing with them. Hope you get the scans you want/need and things go well for you.

Sunny, thanks for the encouragement. I hope things work out better for you too on your next cycle, or however you decide to proceed in the future. I won't stop believing!

Mini, hang in there sweetie. This process is so stressful and emotional and exhausting, but we are all here for you, and it could be so worth it! Keep believing.

Badger, I love those song lyrics, really lovely.

Thanks Ginger and Badger. I do feel better today. I had a self pity cry and an early night and feel ready to do this all again! Am just taking each day as it comes so hopefully won't be any more 'surprise' early starts. Either way I am 'working from home today', have the next two weeks off and so can catch up on some much needed sleep. I know this is just a test for all the sleepless nights ahead of me and I wont be defeated at this stage

Morning Mini - good to hear you sounding more positive this morning! A good cry is always quite cathartic I find. I cried on Saturday night because DH woke me up coz I was snoring so much and I was so tired and utterly convinced I wouldn't be able to get back to sleep for ages that I couldn't help a few tears even though I knew I was being utterly ludicrous. And in the end I was back asleep within 10 minutes anyway!

Happy weekend ladies. My insomnia means I've been at work for half an hour already so am contemplating and early Friday finish...

mini so glad to hear you are feeling better today. Sometimes it just gets all too much and I always think things feel sooo much worse when you are overtired. Not long to go now so keep your chin up my dear.

pocket fab news about donor being ready to go. Not long for you either then. I'm still not sure of our next move yet, I was hoping it would come to me (sometimes I've felt like my hardest decisions or biggest decisions have really just eventually 'presented themselves' like something cliche like an epiphany so I was hoping this would too). We are thinking about a private cycle, but have lots of unanswered questions at the moment, like when, how (financially) and where. Whilst at the same time trying to get on a NHS waiting list. Sometimes I think it's about going with your gut feeling. Anyway I hope to have some news for your all soon, but thanks for asking.

Actually I have 2 kind of random questions to put to you all:

1. When looking at clinics, or comparing, which do you give more importance to a) clinical pregnancy rate or b) live birth rate?

1. What would be the reasons in your opinion to return to a clinic, in doing another cycle or when would you think of moving on to a new clinic?

Oh and sorry one more, so 3. Sorry if this one is TMI, but I'm wondering if I'm becoming peri-menopausal. Over the past year I've noticed my AF getting much shorter (in terms of it now lasting about 2 days, instead of the 4 or 5 in the past). It's still super regular, every 28-29 days, but with all the treatments, MC etc I've found it a bit hard to monitor it exactly. But at 35 it definitely seems to be lasting less time and is perhaps a bit lighter as well. Any thoughts?

Happy weekend to all oxox

Pockety Pocket you're off! Hurray! I have a really good feeling about this cycle and your lovely donor. Wishing you Massive Fat Pregancy vibes all over the place!

Sarlat honey, so very sorry about your result. It doesnt help that you had sort of realised it was going to be negative, does it, just makes it sad for longer. I would definitely add my vote for immune testing - the combo of a miscarriage and potential tube inflammation suggests it's something that should at least be ruled out. The FF thread is a goldmine. Very good luck with deciding, but in the meantime, be gentle with yourself and recover. xx

Ginger I'm wowed by how strong you're sounding. I totally get the need to get back on the horse and have a plan, it's the way I survive too! I hope you're being smothered with love and close times by your DH.

Italian brilliant that your adoption journey has started! Wishing you a quick process, supportive adoption workers and a wonderful DC to welcome into your home and heart.

Mini it does sound like your process is being streeeeettttchhhheeeed out; no wonder it all got too much! Glad you're feeling better. Have you made plans for sanity preservation during the 2ww - apart from your trip? I'm a fan of the Zita West relaxation cds - 30 minutes a day of snoozing with someone telling me it's all going brilliantly is quite good therapy!

Frosticle are you still there? How is the downreg going?

TheCatSofa definitely ask for info! Not knowing what's going on is v stressful and you don't need any stress at the moment. But I'm glad to hear it seems to be going well.

Sunny I'd go with clinical preg rate, as that's the bit the clinic most directly control - but I'd also go with other factors as clinics can manipulate their success rates by eg only taking uncomplicated cases where they'll have a good chance of fast success, so not developing expertise in whatever your individual needs might be. We parted from our first clinic on bad terms after a botched cycle when we felt they were only after our money, and the second when we realised we would need donor eggs and made the decision to go abroad. A good source of info is the Fertility Friends clinic boards, you can get quite a lot of the sense of a clinic by following what the people undergoing cycles there are saying. Re your periods, one option might be to chart for a while to see whether you're still ovulating every month? That would tell you quite a bit.

AFM it's gradually sinking in and I felt properly excited today for the first time. I've had lovely messages of congratulations (and a massive bill for weeks-worth of drugs) from the clinic staff. I need to nerve myself up and book a 6 wk scan now but a bit of me would almost rather not, as I know how uncertain everything is, and the pregnant world seems a bit scary to join at the moment! I have however worked out my EDD: 3 June! Seems a lifetime away!

Chase those dreams xx

Thank you for all the support ladies - I am going to look further in to immunes. The only issue we have is that we are currently in an NHS cycle with a clinic that doesn't view the immunology stuff as valid. We are very lucky that all our FET's will come under NHS funding (cohort from first full cycle) but then again we are tied to thier policies. But I will quote some research to my consultant and see what she thinks.

Mini - sorry about the early starts - keep focusing on the 2 weeks off that is coming up.

Sunny - sorry you are worried about your periods. I don't know much about perimenapause but I think missed periods are more likely than short periods. I'm sure period length generally changes over our life times. Maybe a lighter period means less gunky build up in a positive way. I'm sure someone else will be along soon who knows more. Hugs to you - it's awful when you find something new to worry over.

Morning all,

Mo congrats again! I'm excited for you and you've got a great EDD, June is a good month for birthdays ;)

Pocket exciting times for you too! Wheee!

Sunny I don't know much about premenopausal either but what Mo said sounds sensible. Hugs to you.

mini early starts are sh*t and really knackering, hugs to you too.

Oops stupid phone
AFM had a scan yesterday, lots of lovely follicles growing nicely. Will go in for another scan Sunday/Monday then hopefully EC next week. Is it now I need to start eating pineapple? I remember reading something about it on here. Any other advice on good things to eat or avoid much appreciated!
Have fab weekends xx

Cat I think that brazil nuts are supposed to help the embryo stick, and are also good for your DH's sperm. I ate loads of them during my cycle. Helped along by the fact that I think they're very tasty!

Just a quickie to say to Sarlat that the Zita West clinic always used to do nutrition and other support alongside cycles at other clinics, and they are now doing immune support with their own IVF programme, so it might be worth checking whether they would offer immune therapy alongside an NHS cycle?

Cat excellent news about your follies!

xx