TTC/ pregnancy on Prednisolone or similar part 3

[freelancegirl]

For those who are TTC/pregnant undergoing immunotherapy treatment. Current list as it stands, do feel free to come and join us, it's moving quickly round here!:

Tuesday 22nd November

TTC
Waiting to test
Snoopygirl - V High NKC TTC, will be Ist try with Pred, Intralipids on bfp Testing from 21/11
Havingkittens - Upgraded from High to V High NKC TTC #1 after 2 month break/testing 29 Nov -2 Dec depending on my resolve.
Waiting to ovulate
coleyoz - V High NKC. TTC #2 - ov 3 Dec (Pred and Intralipids at BFP)
duggs1976 - High/V High NKC - TTC #1 - Superovulation cycle1
batteryhen - High activation NKC, factor v leiden. TTC#1
Suemays - V High NKC TTC/ov 30th Oct. TTC#2.
Cherrycheeks - V high NKC, TTC#2/ ov 25th-26th Nov/ 4th cycle of pred
pureequeen - High NKC TTC #2 again from November (BFP cycle one but mc)
eurochick - TTC#1 awaiting first appointment (in Nov)/ov expected 28-30 Nov.
BFPSeeker

BFP
2nd Trimester
Stogan - V high NKC - BFP 9/7/11 cycle#2- 24+3 Due 10/03/12 next scan 30/12
Digitalgirl - High NKC - BFP cycle#2 -19+1 Due 16/04/12 anomaly scan 23/11
Coconutfeet - V High NKC, Factor II gene mutation, underactive thyroid - BFP pre-pred, started at 6 weeks ? 16+1 next scan 14/12
Comedy - V High NKC - BFP cycle#2 - 13+3 due 26/5/12 next scan 12/12
Iggi - High NKC & Hypothyroidism - BFP cycle#2 - 12+6 anomaly scan Jan

1st Trimester
BrownieGecko - High NKC, Hypothyroidism, & Glucose Intolerant. BFP on cycle 3 of Clomid - 11+4 next scan 28/11
Scooterchaser - V High NKC - BFP cycle1 - 8+1 Due 01/07/12. Scan 25/11
Freelance - V High NKC TTC#1 Hydroxchloroquine, Pred, Intralipids. Thyroid/hashimotos. MC 1st cycle. LMP18/10 - 4+6 - Scan 3/12
Arianhod - V High NKC, MTHFR homo, hypothyroid, TTC#2 BFP 2nd pred cycle LMP19/10. 4+5 Scan 7/12
Cheerfulcharlie - V High NKC, MTHFR/TTC 1/ (metformin, intralipids, no pred). LMP17/10(Ov'd 3rd Nov) 4+5 Scan 6/12.
ChoccyPud - V High NKC / TTC #1 BFP 4th Pred cycle LMP20/10 4+4. Scan 3/12.

Breezy, WTF ? I can?t believe that woman. Don?t worry though, we can all relate to the Pred bloat. I have started taking the Omeprazole to try to address this. I am even waking up early in the morning looking somewhat distended. To think this time last year I was a full stone lighter. Very annoying. Especially this early pregnancy bit. I have had been in the early pregnancy stage for 9 flipping months of this year so far. It?s like having the gestation period of a flipping elephant.

I am however slightly envious of your involvement with miniature doll?s house food!!!! How fabulous. I just love that sort of thing and have never had a whiff of it in my life. Even my old doll?s house was a plastic Fisherprice one.

Adding to your train of thought about the mc on Pred Choccy, I can?t say how it will be for you but for me my mc on the Pred was actually much easier than my previous one as I never even saw a baby there. Actually with the previous one I never saw a live baby there (I found out about it?s demise at the 12 week scan after cramping started two days before) but the emotional fall out was a lot less with the previous one as there was only ever a yolk sac even by 8 weeks. It was over quicker than the natural one too as I had the op so no prolonged bleeding. I am not sure whether it will help you in the way that this one is over quickly, but for me it certainly did help. Mr S made me have two months break before TTC. Don?t get me wrong, it was still hideous and upsetting, but the previous one where there had been a baby seen was much much worse for me. Physically I did get some weird post-Pred things (limb vibrating being the weirdest!) but they do soon go. And you never know what is post pred and what is post preg. You are bound to be emotional and tired. It?s good that work is a distraction for you and the one good thing about not being pregnant anymore (this is how I felt anyway) was being able to have a good drink.

Unlike Iggi I was on the 40mg but I think she has a good point about the Progesterone prolonging things.

Ari, how are things with you today? Hope you are feeling ok. And Scooter.

Duggs the stats are pretty interesting. Are we deducing that the level of NK cells actually do make a difference? When I asked Mr S about this he said there had not been any research done but I don?t know if he was trying to calm me down being that I am in the highest 5% of levels he sees (myself and Cherry too I think!). Shit, I think that the cells levels is actually what makes the difference. I need to study our list. It doesn?t make me super dooper confident given my very high levels. And ok I might still be pregnant when others have just lost their pregnancies but I am not even 7 weeks yet!!

Sue in answer to your question my furthest out of 5 pregnancies was the 12 week one, but the baby had died at 7.3. I would say the next week is a really crucial time for me but who knows if there is any pattern? It seems the rest of you have had ones that have gone on longer. Yours sound very upsetting too Cheerful. I know we can all relate to that wanting it to go wrong sooner rather than later thing. It?s a weird place to be in isn?t it!

I have to say I am looking forward to having these conversations in person on Tuesday! I know it will be a bit weird at first but I think we will soon get into the swing of things. Isn?t is so amazing to have people know exactly what you?re going through?! Especially when we are going through such bloody weird shit. Comedy have you been PMd? Glad you can come along! We will all have to have post it notes in front of us with our mn names and rl names on them as it?s going to be confusing! I am happy to PM anyone my mobile if we need another point of contact. PM me to remind me, as my head is like a sieve.

Talking of motorbikes, the 4th Dec is always a very poignant day for me as it is the day I lost my two best friends on one in an accident in 1994. One was my ex boyfriend of 4 years, we had just broken up but were still the best of friends. He?s the reason I moved back to England from Spain and also the reason I am in Brighton still to this day. I love bikes too. They were young, foolish and drunk though. Wild boys, both of them. Paid in the most awful way of course. I always like to have a drink to them on this day as (although I am over it now) it?s a day that really altered my life for a long long time. I will have to raise a glass of ribena! Although I?ve actually gone off that now?Am thinking Lilt maybe.

The 85% success rate is Mr S? overall rate I think, but that is pretty impressive given that the people who come to see him have a lot of problems and they are not just all about NK cells. I don?t know what happens to the other 15% tbh. I really over-thought this when I was going through the mc on the Pred but there are no real conclusions. Someone on BC says that they thought that was 85% on the first go and then more or less everyone else on the second!

BTW, have just got up! Really enjoying bed this weekend! Lots of love to all xx

choccy your post made me cry...it doesn't take much to bring back those mc memories. I remember after the 4th mc was picked up on the scan dh took me home and went to his office (he works alone) to pick up his laptop to work from home. He told me weeks later that he just sat there and cried. I pretty much let myself cry whenever I wanted. I also took 2 weeks off work and it was the best thing I ever did. Work can be a great distraction but for me I just didn't want to have to think about anything serious. I also found lots of walks in the fresh air did me the world of good.

scooter you must still be feeling so raw too. The enforced ttc break is good for the soul. Not having to worry about ovulation, pred, 2ww for a couple of months relieves a lot of pressure.

iggi low risk for ds is great news!! Good luck for your scan tomorrow - another chance to see your little one wriggling. Will you consider putting the doppler away for a couple of weeks after tomorrow?

duggs commiserations on af arriving - but sounds like you'd written this cycle off anyway so it's not too much of a surprise. So do you start on the letrazole again tomorrow? And when do you get scanned? How's the metformin going? I found I got quite nauseas on the full dose for a couple weeks but after that was back to normal.

ari How are you this morning?

breezy Italians, pff! They talk too bloody much! Nice food though (I'm half italian btw)

stogan how's the itching?

Have been for a walk in the woods this morning with ds. We are now watching a spongebob DVD while waiting for the roast pork belly to finish off in the oven. DH is drilling holes in the wall swapping a mirror with a bit of art.

Am worried I sounded a bit hard-hearted about my last mc now, especially given what some of you are going through this week. I just seemed to take it a loss less hard than the first one of the year. I guess maybe I was expecting it in some way due to the scans not showing any growth. Sorry - I didn't mean to say it wasn't awful and I know how awful it can be. I think I voiced my concerns on an earlier incarnation of this thread, that it was going to come back and bite me in the arse and hit me with a wave of emotion. But so far is hasn't. Strange.

Iggi - forgot to say great news about the low risk for DS! And that Dopplar just sound worrying, it is really hard to always find a heartbeat but you just have to trust it is there. Hard as that is I realise. Where is that womb CCTV?!

All sounds lovely in your house this morning digi! No Christmas activities yet? It's far too early in my house for any, in fact as we go away I might not have any at all. But all is up in the air for Christmas anyway at the moment. Did I tell you that Mr S was very reluctant about the idea of me travelling?! He said maybe just to get the train somewhere like France rather than fly. But I didn't clarify whether that meant he doesn't think I should be on a plane (something about flying?) or doesn't think I should be too far away. Either way we said we would talk more about it if I am still pregnant on the 13th.

Het free.. no I didn't make the link between the V HIGH and HIGH.. just the link between people who have MC on Dr S treatment first time, seem to be successful 2nd time, which pretty much ties into the post you read on BC.

As for you travelling.. umm... how many weeks would you be when you fly ? Is there any chance you could "post pone" christmas ?
x

digi yes metformin for me 3 times a day 500mg each time.. and letrozole supposed to be from day 2 or day 3. AF so so light today I might start CD3 as a 24 day cycle is pretty darn short so I wouldn't mind it being a little longer.
Did you do letrozole Digi or just metformin ?

Has anyone else tried letrozole here ?

I just ate 5 after eight mints (I mean I didn't even realies they still existed) someone bought them over a few weeks ago at my murder mystery party. Since the insulin PCOS news there is nothing sweet in the house... but today with AF and post pred feeling I hunted the damn things down and stuffed 5 in half a second. Now feeling a bit sick. Is it the pred, the met, the letrozole... AF, PG.. for fecks save or is it just because i stuffed too many sickly, circa 1985 choc mints...haa!

Who fancies a week or 2 in the cocoon house ? The butler is a bit lonely, and I've heard he makes a smashing cocktail.. even mocktail for the PG ladies...choccy, scooter you could have daily massages - people can come and go anytime and leave at 30 weeks safely into the world to deliver their babies.
They have fresh flowers delivered and cleaners too.. !

choccy I really feel for you, and you vent all you like, you're entitled to!

duggs Glad you're relieved AF is here, at least you know what's going on! Here's to the next, less super-sized, fertile egg! :)

Just a very quickie as I'm supposed to be finishing off the pre-trampoline garden clearing at the mo, much the same with me today - more brown yuck. Also did another CB Digi test out of pure curiosity as to what it would show my hCG is doing and sure enough it's dropped down to showing just 1-2 weeks now. It's what I expected. Good point about the progesterone delaying MC, it's exactly what I've been thinking and I've decided to stop mine. I know full well what's happening, so it makes sense.

choccy that's actually a comforting thought, I think, that your body can feel it has permission to "let go" and get on with the job of cleansing itself. Good in you girl for your strength and overall fabulous attitude. Yes Christmas may be difficult (my second such :( ) but you're looking forward which is just brilliant. Yay you!

/waves and hugs to all (iggi excellent news about the low DS risk), off to more ground clearing for me.

And yes please duggs, I could def. do with that 2-week cocoon house break please. Stop the world, I want to get off!

free I didn't take your post that way at all don't worry. I like to think we can speak freely here in the safe knowledge that no one is likely to take things the wrong way as we can all relate to most if not all the things everyone says. Hope so anyway!

Don't know anything about metrozole etc... Maybe I'll be finding out in the new year.

I'd love a red wine drip and twice daily massages and relaxing reflexology sessions in the cocoon house please, with totally no hangover.

Right. I'm off in search of my next round of maybe slightly unhealthy food..:)

Aw, thanks Ari, thats really sweet of you. Sorry you're back down to 1-2 weeks. You've been saying all along you could see where it was going and I was so so hoping you were wrong. I would say think about whether to keep going until your scan though? you'll be able to see if anything is there on Weds and just in case you're wrong you wouldn't want to look back having had a gap in the cyclogest/Pred. It must be right about the cyclogest tho, I obv didn't do one last night. Hadn't connected that one stoopidly.

choccy you are admirable, sounding so strong.
ari so sorry for your news but I know that in reality we do have to listen to our instincts as we know our bodies better than anyone.

I am particularly gutted because I really hoped beyond hope that I had taken one for the team.

In solidarity with both of you I am also still physically miscarrying but the pain is less today. My HCG takes a long time to reduce so as one of lifes cruel jokes I have had quite a few pg symptoms over the last few days but I think they're beginning to fade now too.

I have properly been grieving this time, it's felt like physical pain in my heart. I have two speeds at the moment, keeping busy crying and staring into space crying. I allowed myself to get attached to this one, I saw it three times and it was doing so well.

Most of all, I am really worried that my experience has destabilised and frightened all the pregnant ladies so I wanted you to know that seeing a heartbeat between 7-11weeks usually means a 90% chance of a good outcome. I read today that even with bleeding, only 4% go on to miscarry after seeing a heartbeat at 9weeks or later. I fall into these minorities very sadly, but please don't let my experience colour yours, heartbeats and growth are massive signs of hope for most people.

I have had really promising scans with no obvious dangers, only hours before 3 of my miscarriages now, the way it happens with me seems to be so predictable and clockwork that I suspect the NK cells are just part of the problem, I took all the treatment religiously, two lots of intralipids, the baby had grown well, I'm convinced it was fine. I am not sure NK cells can take a baby from fine to gone in a matter of hours like that. I intend to rule out a lot of other things and actually have the doctors LISTEN to my instincts about it all (I feel like my migraines, the problem with my son's heart at 35weeks etc is all somehow connected and there is an explanation out there somewhere) before I get back on the bandwagon again. I guess with an enforced two month wait I will have time to investigate.

Oh I wish to God I was a drinker (allergic to alcohol - the irony!)

I just wanted to say how much appreciate all your thoughts, because you really really know what I am going through but mostly I wanted to say DO feel positive, hopeful and not be disheartened because this whole process usually turns out well. The odds are still good.

choccy last time I MC, I was on 2 x 400mg cyclogest per day. The baby had died at 9.5 which I found out about at about 13 week scan. I stopped the cyclogest immediately and MC started pretty strongly within just over 24 hours.

Although it is annoying that cyclogest delays you realising you had a MC, it is reassuring that it maintains the womb lining so well. However, I think it is a good thing to remember that when we do take the cyclogest we must be really really careful not to forget it or delay it too much otherwise the drop in progesterone could presumably lead to the womb lining breaking down pretty quickly, unless of course we had good progesterone levels naturally anyway I suppose?

Good to hear you are being so practical about things, Choccy, but then I suppose we have to be really.

breezy i bet you could have kicked that woman.

freelance I have also been advised by a few docs to avoid flying in 1st trimester as we are classed as high risk. There are a few reasons - radiation (although i think that's only if you fly a lot), increased risk of blood clotting due to the pressure, just the general stress of airports / travelling etc. and also that you wouldn't really want to be travelling if you did miscarry suddenly. Personally I have cancelled my Christmas back in the UK as I don't want to be taking any risks. I'm a bit upset about it as Christmas in the desert isn't a patch on a UK Christmas, but I think i would regret it if I went and it all went wrong. At least if it goes wrong anyway, I will know I did all I could (well, apart from taking pred of course....).

Ari, really sorry to hear your test is showing only 1-2 weeks again. Are you going to still go for your scan?

scooter you are so sweet reassuring us of the stats. My last miscarriage, I was convinced everything was fine after seeing the baby kicking around on several occasions too, then it seemed to stop suddenly after one scan. The shock of it going wrong is pretty hard to take. I'm not sure if NK cells can stop things suddenly, but i had gathered it can happen that way, although I maybe just assumed that. I would be interested to hear more on that if you find more out on it.

Just a very quickie because apparently I'm supposed to be making something to eat (sigh .. hate cooking) .. choccy I've thought all day and decided you're right, wise woman. Yes I am 100% certain I'm miscarrying and it's just the progesterone supplements that are delaying the actual bleeding, but on the very slim chance that somehow I've got it all wrong (and the hCG drop is too - yes, I know, can't be) I'll keep taking the progesterone till the scan till Wed. It's only delaying the bleeding by another 3 days, I guess I can wait (and it will make the scan less messy :) ).

cheerful yes I'm still having the scan, if only for Mr S to see what's going on in there. I'd like to know if there's nothing but an empty sac or what. I am wincing at the loss of £220-odd (and wondering if I'll have to have a follow-up scan later on to make sure everything has gone? Hope not, can't afford to lose yet another £220!) but I just can't face yet more EPU visits, too many bad memories.

Hugs to everyone, scooter hope you're coping with your grieving, you are morning a death and you take all the time and tears you need. Likewise choccy, hang in there - we may get to have dual intralipids again yet! :)

Ari that has to be the right decision overall. Worst case as you say he can check there's nothing left, if you do turn out to be right. It was an awful shock for me to see nothing, I was obviously more hopeful than I'd realised, but in retrospect, I'm hugely relieved it's done and gone.

Tuesday's meet has come at the perfect time for me I think. Not sure I'll get through it without having an embarrassing meltdown though so you've been warned!!

Breezy thought of you just now - there was a doll's house on Antiques Roadshow worth £2500 odd! The owner's daughter had put a Christmas stocking up in one of the rooms, which was very sweet.

Scooter I've never seen a hb, or even a potentially living bean, best I've had was a sac with nothing yet visible at 6wks. I seem to tend to not implant and/or the highly efficient nkcs zap them by 5/6 weeks though I must say that dh keeps reminding me that we mustn't set too much by previous mc's as this was the first on the treatment... I can't imagine how good it must be to see a potential life there and then how utterly awful it must be to then lose it. I do hope the outward ongoing reminder of the bleeding ends soon for you, I find being able to stop using horrible pads is a milestone. You can't help but feel them and it's right in front of you every time you go to the loo. Hateful. hugs

Just back from a weekend away and so sorry to read your news Choccy. It sounds like your dh is brilliant and I really hope you're able to support each other at the moment.

Scooter - Good to see you back again. I really hope the physical side at least is over for you quickly.

Ari - Sorry it's not looking good for you too. You've had an instinct all along that it wasn't right, but I was so hoping you were wrong.

I feel so angry on behalf of all of you. It's just so bloody unfair that you're going through this. God knows it's so hard to pick yourself up and put yourself through it again and again. Big hugs to the three of you.

Free - Good news about your scan. I imagine this next week is going to be a testing one for you, given your history. Hope the time till the next scan passes quickly.

It's looking unlikely that I'll make it on Tuesday but can someone PM me anyway, just in case please.

Waves to everyone else!

Hello All,

Choccy I hope you are doing ok. The shock that comes after mc is awful so, I hope you are getting lots of cuddles and love xx
ari I want to say 'you never know etc' but sometimes you do know your own body, and someone being hopeful and helpful is not what you want, but I hope you get some answers from Mr S ( I hope that makes sense)
scooter Glad to see you cak too, nice and gentle is the way forward xx
duggs sorry about AF but next month for you my girl! :)

Reading the stories about peoples mc is sad. Makes me well up.

My last one in June (3rd one) was at 12 weeks. I had had scans at 6, 8 ,10 and then went for my nuchal at 12. The wierd thing was I had been hearing the hb on a doppler but the 2 previous days before the scan I hadn't heard it. When I got on the couch - I remember dp telling the sonographer this. When the scan came up ( the tv is on the wall in front of the couch) I asked if there was a hb and the sonographer shook her head sadly. She had to get another dr to confirm and then it hit me and I howled like I had had my heart ripped out. DP held me up whilst I sobbed into his neck :( The poor sonographer started to cry too.

Afterwards dp said the hardest thing was he could see the liitle chubby cheeks and lips :(

Sorry about that - sometimes you just have to write things down I think. My dd was new years eve. Great.

Well we need some good news - who is testing next? Oh... I can't check the list as I can't scroll back but is it me?? !

It's sues :) - not changed the list as I don't want to mess up xx

Can I ask for some hand holding. My SIL has just announced her pregnancy and it is when my 3rd miscarried baby would be due. Am struggling a bit.

I've not had a proper chance to catch up today as I've been at work and so only able to skim read on my phone. I just wanted to post quickly about the subject of air travel. The consultant I saw at Mr S's NHS clinic said it was perfectly fine to fly until 36 weeks and that as long as I was cautious about DVT, ie. getting up for a walk around every couple of hours there shouldn't be a problem. I will ask again when I see Mr S this week but I really hope he concurs as I am going to be doing a lot of flying back and forth to France for the foreseeable future - albeit short journeys. It's costing me a fortune as it is, the train costs 2-3 times as much and takes twice as long.

lemon announcements are so tough, feel for you and when due dates match it just makes your heart sink because you know it's a significant date on someone elses calendar now and a constant reminder for you. My best friend was induced last week on my November due date (Baby 4). I will always remember feeling pregnancy symptoms when she showed me the two lines on her test and imagining our DC being best friends. Does your SIL know about your experience? Are you close enough to let her know? Sometimes people can be more sensitive than you expect. I talked about my mcs with my brother today for the first time, a real surprise how understanding he was. Hugs for you x

battery I cried reading your story. Perhaps the scans statistics are not all that accurate and this sort of thing is a bit more common with us immuno bunnies. I had started to think I wasn't really in the right place and searching for different answers but hearing from you and cheerful has been a strange comfort, just in shared experience (although I know I was earlier in weeks and am grateful for that small mercy). I think I remember duggs you had an equally horrifying scan experience. battery so heartbreaking what your DP said, their pain is so hard too. Sometimes it is important to write it down and remember, I can really relate to that feeling of sobbing like you are totally out of control.

choccy I also didn't realise how high my hopes were, we think we protect ourselves and dare not be too positive but I think being on the treatment let's hope creep in more than we anticipate. DH and I also still reeling from why it couldn't be different this time. It's so confusing. Let's hope Dr S can answer some questions for both of us. Do you have an appointment with him yet? They say about 6-8weeks for mine. Big RL hug coming your way on Tues.

ari thinking of you constantly, it's so hard to have all the signs and it feel so familiar but having to wait to know for sure. This is my second Christmas in a row like this too, it's tough.

Agree we need some good news now.
Feel like I brought down the house of cards a bit this week. Things had been looking so hopeful.

Scooter take time to grieve over the lost little one, we all completely understand how you feel - it's such an awful time. You are bound to feel more devastated this time after seeing the baby developing and letting your guard down but you will bounce back as you have done it before. It could just have been a chromosome problem with you this time so try not to obsess that you have another underlying problem (we all do that though).

Lemon at my daughters christening today were 2 close friends who would have been 4 weeks ahead of me from my last MC, another friend then told me she was 6 weeks pregnant! I now have 4 friends who are all pregnant plus 3 others who are TTC. I feel the same as you as it's so hard to put a fake smile on your face and try to be happy for them. I feel like I am constantly trying to chase a train I can never catch and everyone else is headed to some fantastic place I will never get to! I do believe our time will come eventually so long as we have the strength to keep going.

One of my friends said maybe the reason we are all going through this is because we are stronger than everyone else and that others wouldnt cope with it and keep going. I guess it speaks volumes that we are all chasing this dream and are prepared to keep putting up with the risk of more miscarriages. Don't forget ladies how strong we all are even though it doesn't feel like it at times.

Choccy I try and tell myself its just a heavy period when I see the pads etc. It helped me last time as I only got to about 6 weeks so I told myself I was having a long cycle, otherwise i used to obsess about the blood being a baby etc and tried to look for the foetus. Call it denial but it helped me get through it easier. My mum said that years ago thats how they used to view early miscarriages. You only went to the docs after missing 2 periods so if you bled before then it was not looked on as a miscarriage but just a heavy period. I think the emotional attachment is the worst part as all your hopes and dreams are dashed in one go. If we didnt have the early pregnancy tests it might make it easier on us as we might not even know it had happened.

free how would you feel if you did fly and then miscarried? Would you blame yourself as I know I would??? I also dont think you came across as being harsh about miscarriages. Sometimes I think we need to hear the truth rather than being told what we want to hear. At least we have all been in the same situation so we can be honest with each other. Sorry to hear about your 2 friends who died in the bike accident, hope today was not too emotional for you.

Battery you will feel sad on New Years Eve then. Maybe you should light a candle or something as a reminder? NYE is always an emotional time anyway. I remember last NYE we were at a friends party and everyone was hugging and all happy and DH and I were standing in one corner in tears. We thought that 2010 was behind us and that 2011 would be better (little did we know). Lets hope that 2012 will be the year for all of us.

Ari I think you are doing the right thing by seeing Dr S for a scan. He might see something that a normal sonographer wont which could help his treatment plan next time for you. So sorry that you are sure this one has ended for you but I think you knew all along.

Iggi I forgot to say in my last post about the doppler but it helps if you hold your breath for a while. My friend had to do that with hers everytime! Hope it works.

Duggs glad to hear your AF has come (in one way). Lets hope that you hatch a good egg next time and it will be the right one. Enjoy the cocoon house!

I got a BFN this morning at 11DPO. I am spotting now, only a tiny bit of pink when I wipe so I have only lightly bled for just over a day with 3 days of spotting. My temp shot back up again this morning too but I dont want to read too much into it. I am hoping its not an eptopic pregnancy if anything - here I go again worrying and its probably just a light period! I am going to test again on Wed but already worrying if I am preg as I didnt start taking the preds until 5DPO.

Forgot to say Duggs Comedy and Snoopy (and anyone else who fancies a trip out) I am free next Sat 10th for an afternoon coffee if anyone can make it?
We could try to meet at the same place we arranged as before - the Royal Oak in Farnham Common for 2.30pm????

Lemon what appalling timing, that is so tough. I just found out my sil is having their second, due May. Actively not thinking about whether I will be able to cope with seeing them and their dd at Christmas. To be decided near the time...

Take comfort in the fact that you are taking steps to do something about getting there yourself. Unfortunately there are no guarantees but you will hopefully find out more soon and can put a plan of action together that will make you feel like you are in as much control as you can be at this stage.

Why don't you think about coming along tomorrow? PM Duggs for details.

I'd be up for that sue ! X

Agh! There?s so much going on here and I want to reply to it all! It is all so bloody important to us and I devour every bit of it. Right, will have a go.

Choccy glad you were ok with my rant about me being rather ?switched off? about my second mc of the year. I remember saying it here at the time and I think Digi and others could relate a bit too. There are times we might all feel a bit hardened to the process as we have had to be to a certain extent haven?t we? I think I tried to put it behind me very quickly and move on to the next one. And here the next one is ? in full mentalling mode.

Ari, sorry it really does seem to be all over. I do hope you too can take some comfort in the fact it happened early this time. You are so strong, going about your business and making way for trampolines! What time is your scan on Weds? I agree about avoiding EPU, I feel like I can?t face it either. I have to go to the hospital for thyroid tests and am already dreading it.

Scooter, my heart breaks when I read the grief you are going through. I can imagine how you must have allowed yourself to get attached to this one, having seen it alive and well three times. I just don?t understand what the hell has happened! But this seems to have been the same experience others of you have had too, am I right? That it all seems alive and well and then suddenly something goes wrong. I am guessing that there was nothing you could do this time to save anything for testing, being that you had a natural mc at home? I wonder what Mr S will say when you see him. Have you any specific questions lined up? I am not sure NK cells can take a baby from fine to gone in a matter of hours like that either. Maybe there is something else? It?s such a nightmare as a lot of the time it is us and Dr Google against the world. I hope Mr S comes up with something else for you. Maybe it really is just the killer cells?

Thanks for the positive words too. I worry that those good stats ? the slimmer chances of things going wrong after seeing a heartbeat at 7-11 weeks ? are stats that unfortunately apply to other people. According to my LMP I will be 7 weeks tomorrow. The first baby of the year ? the one that was actually a baby there ? stopped growing at 7.3 so this week is going to be a particularly anxious week for me. I just keep thinking PLEASE WORK - DRUGS! I am so fed up of having been in the early stages of pregnancy or miscarrying for the whole of the bloody year I don?t think I could face trying all over again. I guess you can all relate to that in some way. I?ve been pregnant or miscarrying for the whole bloody year!

Oh Battery your experience with the last miscarriage sounds just devastating. Again to have successful scans and then it all go wrong at 12 weeks is just unspeakably awful. Is this before treatment? You can see it looks like a baby at that point can?t you. I remember my 12 week scan and it looked like a tiny little dead baby :(

Choccy and others. We are all allowed a meltdown on Tuesday! I was crying within moments of meeting Duggs the other day! If any group of people can relate to what we are all going through it?s us. So we are allowed a few tears. I hope we can get a nice table somewhere in a corner!

Oh Lemon, you poor thing. Do they know about your miscarriages? Is it her first baby? It is so very hard to take I know. We are here for hand holding, venting, everything. Like Choccy says, are you around in London tomorrow? Do join us. Breezy too, and anyone else for that matter. How many of us are there going to be now?

Sue I didn?t start on the Pred until 3DPO I think. It?s not an exact science so try not to worry about that bit. Bleeding and a temp rise is an interesting combination ? implantation? I have to admit I know sod all about implantation bleeding. Yes you are right about the flying, best to be aware that you have done all you can. I think we should get Digi to re-do the list, she is so much better at it than I am. Yes it is you and Battery that might be next on the list of BFPs I think.

Cheerful that is interesting what you say about the flying. I hadn?t heard it until the other day and I didn?t question Mr S further about whether it was the flying process or the distance away. I guess either way I might do well to avoid it this time too. With my first (non-treated) pregnancy of the year I flew around the world and back in the first few weeks! Sorry you are not going to be able to come home for Christmas. Are you going to travel after the first trimester presuming it all goes well? Kittens let us know what Mr S says about the flying. That would indeed be a nightmare for you and your situation with your mum.

The Cocoon House is wonderful right now. It sounds like the sort of place I want to go over Christmas now I probably can?t go home to see my parents in Spain or to get some sunshine further afield come New Year!

It is a bit of an emotional rollercoaster on here at the moment isn?t it? You know what we could do with? We could do with a few of Mr S? many (and there are indeed MANY) successes to come on here and talk us through it all a bit. We need support from the graduates! But the thing is they are all off happily looking after their babies. And good on them too. We have to bear it in mind though, that hundreds of success stories are out there. And look at the ladies on the 2nd trimester part of the list! We need to try to draw strength from that when we can. Hard as it is.