Just MC and ready to try again? Pack your leathers, black nail polish, air guitar and jump in the mosh pit for some serious metalling. All welcome! (Part 18)

[Summerbird73]

New thread for some serious metalling. We are ramping up the amps and churning out some Metallica, Nirvana, ACDC, Stone Temple Pilots... with the occasional 90's rave music!!

If you have miscarried and are ready to TTC again, come and join us in the WTF cycles with the odd VIP ticket to the padded cell for some serious mentalling (now known as Metalling)

Welcome!

pie Have you looked at/considered agnus castus? It is great for improving egg quality, lowering fsh, and improving progesterone levels after O. Also, high dose complex b vits are known to improve egg quality (it's been shown ivf patients produce consistently better eggs when taking it).

Consider trying these two together, to tackle your issue (which, also as I understand it, is not set in stone - you absolutely can improve the values of your tests and if it helps you fall pregnant then it won't matter on iota that an ivf clinic wouldn't treat you!)? Out it this way - they can't hurt. Or, at least the b vits definitely won't hurt and although agnus castus can screw up some women's cycles anecdotally (which is surely just one step away from statistically if such anecdotes are collated?! (listen to me putting a positive spin on everything!) for women with test results such as yours they see a big improvement.

I know the 'sensible' way to approach this would be to go to a herbalist to get them to 'prescribe' it for you but I've taken this combo three times now with success (yes, I took it to concieve DS2, DS3 and was taking 1200mg AC in the AM and a B100 complex when I fell pregnant this time - seemingly the first time I was technically able to fall pregnant because of my wonky cycles after the mmc)

If you really do want another child, I think it's definitely worth a shot. Give it at least three months (the AC contains no hormones in and of itself - it acts upon your hypothalamus and pituitary to balance things).

Oh, and when I say it acts upon your hypothalamus and pituitary, the effet is it lowers fsh and increases LH, which, it would seem from your results, is exactly what you need to balance, normalise, your result.

Chin up, pie. Things might not actually be as bad as they seem.

Thanks guys, I am sitting at work trying to stop myself from crying :) I just had to facilitate a meeting and the whole time am thinking about it all and what it means. I just wish I didn't know :( To be honest, given i'm 39 i'm not sure what kind of FSH level I was expecting! I guess 'normal' or even 'fair' would have been good, not 'poor'!

manda I was going to get a 50mg B6 complex at lunch (there is already 10mg in my multi-vits). Or should I just go for the 100mg? Does it need to be a complex, or just the B6? My understanding is that you are only as good as your highest FSH level :( I doubt if, deep down, we would have done IVF anyway but I guess it's not having the choice makes it hard(er). Are you still taking the 100mg of B6 now? I'm a bit scared of AC having heard so many 'yes take it' 'no, don't take it' stories! But you are veering me towards the yes take it route! I think I will give it a month with extra B6 and also some wheatgrass which is supposed to help (listen to me, I never thought I would turn into a shaking vitamin junkie, this is ontop of my conception multi-vitamin and extra D3!). Do you take B6 and AC all the way through your cycle or stop AC at ovulation? Sorry for all the questions xxx

I am also cursing how stressful my job has been this year as stress seems to definitely play a part in raised FSH levels. PAH!

summer I do have private healthcare & already have approval from BUPA to see a gynae, just need the referral from my GP. She's off today but should be able to do it over the phone. I think at least an u/s scan would be good and possibly an HSG?? I'm sitting with you now on the huge leather sofa with a large mojhito and drowing my sorrows!

So happy to read the success stories from this thread though! And manda sorry if I didn't say so already (in my doom and gloom!) but I am sooo happy for your good scan yesterday!

I think I need to get a GRIP and not wallow in my crap blood tests. If there are ways of helping my body right itself then i'm damn well going to give it a go. At least then I'll know I did my best. DS is such a sociable toddler, he is always going up to other kids (strangers) to play with them that it breaks my heart to think he might be an only child (but, I am eternally grateful to have him and know we are blessed).

Thanks for being my sounding board, sorry to bring doom and gloom to the thread when we've been doing so well with lots of BFPs!!

, thanks for all your helpful info xx

PPS - There obviously shouldn't be a smiley face on the first sentence of my long post!

pie go for it - get that referral super quick. shocking that we have to rely upon private healthcare but so be it. if youve got it flaunt it as they say!! Fingers crossed and good luck.

Ok, with regards to the b vits, all the recommendations I've seen are to take a complex rather than a stand alone (such as B6). This is because they all work best 'hand in hand' as it were - and also, supplementing one can mask a deficency in another (not suggesting you're deficient, but because of their interlinked nature that's what can happen).

As for dose, I'd be inclined to start at 100 (I got mine from holland and barrett; the ac too, actually). If you're one of the very rare people who experience side effects at that dose (usually it would take 250-300 to cause side effects which includes tingling in limbs/hands) you can always reduce (by snapping the tablet in half, presto! you've got B50's!)

Be prepared for flourescent yellow pee! That's a degree of the vits that your body isn't utilising coming straight out in your pee.

Take throughout your whole cycle (no need to wait for a new cycle either, although they do their real 'good' work during the follicular stage). Incidently, high dose b vits have also been shown to help mild depression/boost mood/relieve stress. Again, not making any assumptions, but every little helps!

I stopped taking it at bfp, as I was also taking pregnacare which had everything I needed wrt the pregnancy. The B100 was to help me get there

The agnus castus. Well, in addition to the 'take it!/don't take it!' debate, there is the twin school of thinking that you 'take only until O/take your whole cycle'.

I can only give you my experience, and you can make your own mind up:

When I took it to concieve DS2 and 3, I took 800mg all cycle long (again, AM), and then stopped at bfp. DS2, I was pregnant the second cycle, DS3 the first.

This time, I was taking the same dose for two cycles. At that point, cycles were still all over the place from the mmc, with woeful 9 day lp. So, I thought, I'll up the dose (to 1200mg (3 capsules)) but the increase made me a little twitchy about whether I should take the whole cycle. I figured I had two months worth of 800mg in my system so it would be ok and make me less twitchy to stop at O. Which I did. And got my bfp at 11dpo.

I don't wanna seem like a pusher - I certainly have nothing to gain from you trying it too! - but if your results give you a cats hope in hell of concieving naturally right now, what will it hurt to try?

Oh! One more thing. I read something in the weeks before my bfp cycle about calcium aiding conception/implantation. I barely eat any dairy AND I'm bf so I should imagine that I was deficient. So I also started taking osteocare from vitabiotic that has calcium, D3, magnesium and other trace elements that can also be useful when ttc. The cheapest/best way i found to purchase them was from sainsburys of all places. One pack is £2.50 (cheaper than anywhere else I found) plus they are 3 for 2.

Wow, don't I ramble on?

If there's anything else you wanna ask, ask away. I'm apparently in a talkative mood!

thanks manda am going to absorb your very useful info whilst having my lunch! There are already lots of different B vits in my conception multi-vits so I'm guessing it can't hurt to take lots of them, not just B6? So i'd be having 800mg folic acid and 50mg of all the other B vits

summer it's one of the reasons I've stuck in at my job so long is the healthcare benefit! I've used it quite a lot. I bizarrely lost my sense of smell when I was pregnant with DS and never got it back. I had to have a CT scan and nasaloscopy (dodgy spelling, horrible thing to have) and still haven't really got it back! I can only sense very faint smells now and can't buy perfume! :( Sorry that was a bit of an tangent!

Thanks for the kind words peeps, my woes don't feel so big with the aid you ladies on this thead (IYSWIM)

Right - I'm back. Case is settled. DTD has also mostly occurred for the month(although there may be a final go tonight - I got a positive OPK yesterday morning).

Manda - glad everything is looking good. You're giving me hope.

Pie - Sorry your hormone levels are off. I don't understand the science at all, but I hope you can get it sorted out soon.

I have also lost my PMA somewhat. Maybe I left it under the sofa . DTD has, this month, felt a bit of a chore as a result. Not helped by my getting utterly pissed off at work with a senior colleague who NEEDS TO LEARN TO STOP MICRO-MANAGING ME!!!!! I may soon kill him (keep your eyes peeled for "Law firm massacre" headlines). He also needs to know that I do not give a flying fuck when he plans to book off on holiday - I have already booked mine and if they overlap with his plans then he should have got in earlier. Also known as "not my problem matey".

And breathe.

hi

not much to report at pebspop towers, i am waiting to ttc until later this year but i will still hang around here if thats ok!

i will start taking my high dose folic acid next time af comes to visit then wait another two cycles before ttc. the consultant said i need to have a couple of months folic acid in my before ttc. i am very nervous of doing anything 'wrong' this time as i am hoping, with my new treatment plan, that it will work out next time and don't want to spoil it. i think i feel better about the mc's knowing that i couldn't have caused them. i think you can feel guilty if things go wrong and you know you weren't doing everything properly.

i am also going to try and get my cycles regular with acupunture and temping. i am hoping to see the rise over the weekend and was wondering if i should get some ov sticks? does anybody use them?

pie sorry to hear about your blood test results. surely it doens't mean it's game over? when did you last get pg? can you try ivf or is that not an option for you? how about trying acupunture - my guy says he can get women pregnant who have been trying for a while (not exactly sure how he does it but hope it's by acupuncture lol!)

manda lot's of good advice there re the vitamins. i just take pregnacare but i am always hearing about all this other stuff you could be doing.

hope all the preggies are doing ok!!!

Summerbird73; TTC#2; cycle 6; AF due circa 19 Oct
Eve34; TTC # 2 cycle 2 since MC AF due 23 Sept
PieMistress; TTC #2, cycle 4/5; AF due circa 25th Oct
ShimmeryPixie: TTC#1, cycle 2 post MC AF due 18 Oct
Babysaurus: TTC#1, Cycle 1 (?), AF hopefully NOT due around 11th October.
Pebspop: TTC#1, Cycle 1 AF due around 22th oct
Smileygirl: TTC#2. Cycle 1 post MC, AF due circa 11th Oct but who knows
Poppyjen TTC#2 Cycle 3 post mc AF due 13th October ish

BFP: (insert your due dates etc here)
BlueCrane TTC#1 EDD 31st May 2012
MandaHugNKiss TTC#4 EDD 18th May 2012
MissGiraffe TTC #2 (1DD, 15yo) EDD 10th May 2012
MarathonMama TTC #2 (1DD, 25mo) EDD 17th March
InsomniaQueen TTC #1 EDD 18th March 2012

jumped on to at shimmery's message to her colleague! PMSL

Hi all, have been reading the thread but not posting much as been super busy with things (mainly house - we have a shower, after five months of washing in the cellar or other people's houses - yippeee!)

I have to rush off now as need to get to the launderette (still no kitchen / washing machine) and then have some Fimo to get on with.
Sorry to those who have been feeling blue. Its such a fucking rollercoaster this whole marlakey isn't it? Crap really. Think that having a MC strips any possible lightheartedness out of subsequent tries too.
Sorry, that was a bit doom and gloom. I won't name check and write properly as in a rush (hence disjointed crapness of this post!)
One thing - have realised that AF is due Friday not on the 11th as l originally thought. So, I could test right now if I wanted. But, as we didn't DTD much this month and I spent a large part of the weekend pissed with friends I think I'm better just waiting and seeing.
Will try and write properly later - after painting the bathroom wall this eve.
x

shimmery glad you got your case sorted...grrr to your irritating colleague but go go go with the SWI tonight!! Sorry you've got another 2ww to endure!!

pebs glad you have a plan in place re. TTC...I'm sure it's good to feel like you can actively do something to help IYSWIM which will hopefully make the wait to TTC a bit more bearable.

baby yeah to having a bathroom!! That's huge progress!! Which room is next on the list?

Off to do some more work trying to look like I'm working whilst actually staring into space as sooo tired and could sleep right now

Shimmery good news about your case - I was a solicitor in my previous (pre-mummy) life so hearing about it brought it all back (that and the micro-managing boss....what is it about lawyers?) I affectionately think that I have now retired from the murky world of the corporate law firm never to return

Pie were you asking about Agnus Castus? .I tried it for one cycle and it did shorten my crazy long cycle by 10 days which was great. If not successful this time around I will definitely be giving it and the Vit B a try. So sorry to hear about your test results and the confusing information given by your GP. They really are rubbish sometimes aren't they. Definitely not game over there's a whole world of things to try

IQ was asking about PCOS a while back too - I have this and first time around managed to conceive DS on first month trying (1st month off the pill) whereas this time we started TTC no 2 back in February, had mc in May so its a different story. What I am trying to say is that there is no hard and fast rule I don't think. Having PCOS doesn't necessarily mean that there will be problems TTC but what it is totally different for everyone, even different for the same person TTC anoher child! The truth is I don't think that "they" really know everything there is to know about it. I really feel for your friend though I know that when I was diagnosed with similar prognosis re TTC I fell into a bit of a depression. It's tough but she is lucky to have a lovely friend like you to support her!

As for me, well 10 DPO today. Symptoms - sore boobs, VERY tired and have a stinking cold (nose streaming, sneezing the lot!). Lovely. I don't have any early tests in the house, just the clearblue digis so I can't test yet.

Metal.

Metal.

Metal.....

poppy that is sounding very promising! Lots of the ladies on her had stinking colds when they got their BFPs! Nip to the shops and get a test ready for tomorrow morning's FMU! How is your chart looking? Mine is unreliable as my temps don't actually drop until AF is finished so still having a high temp for me at 11dpo doesn't mean much - Pah!!!

Pie to problem FSH levels. Sounds as though you've got some good advice here (better than your GP gave you anyway! What's that all about?) and that you still have options. Definitely not game over yet. You sounded a bit more recent posts than your first one from yesterday morning, so hope you can see some light at the end of the tunnel, and keep a firm grasp of that PMA for the time being (other hand obviously busy holding a cocktail of some description )

Manda, you clearly know your stuff, I'm well impressed! How are you symptom wise?

IQ so sorry to hear of the problem your friend is having. It must be really tough as there's not really much you can say or do, other than just staying positive for her, and being encouraging when she needs you to be, and being a shoulder when she needs it Hard times indeed.
But, yeah to DH, your knight in shining armour, stepping up to the plate and addressing your BILs behaviour

Shimmery hope work settles down now that your case has settled. Sounds like good timing for SWI though! We'll expect to see you in the mosh pit from next week onwards then!

Poppy I had a horrible cold when I got BFP. Lasted 2 weeks, started with a sore throat and generally progressed to runny nose, blocked sinuses, the usual. And, my DH reminded me that I was like that before last BPF too. TEST woman!!

Blue I think my extreme tiredness is finally lifting. I was like you, must have wasted at least half the day at work on some days.

Baby Happy new shower! You could test anytime now, couldn't you?! Waiting im patiently for an update

Hi to everyone else today Summer Marathon Eve Pebs Pixie Wishing Smiley

Had to go back to surgery for a repeat blood test. Not because of dodgy result, but because the midwife wrote the wrong name on the bottle! Nothiug esle to report from casa giraffe, other the the apocalyptic weather. Thunder that shakes the house, followed by hail (mahoosive ice chunks) closely followed by clear blue skies. Bizarre!

poppy I know I shouldn't be encouraging early testing but I got a 'bfp 1-2wks from conception' on a CB digi two days before AF was due - only tested because I was full of a cold and wanted to know if I could take the array of cold/flu medication I had lined up...the bfp made the cold a bit more bearable but I did miss my meds! I'm sure missg and others also had sore throat/cold when they got their bfps too...oh, and I was exhausted too here's hoping good news for you!!

Speaking of tiredness I was asleep by 9pm last night! Must say I do feel a lot better for it today but have a late night coming tonight as I have a fancy dress meal thing to go to which won't finish until late- Cowgirls of all things too!! Determined not to put life on hold the way I did last time though and since I just know I'll feel rough tomorrow I just need to get on with it! And since I'll be driving then I can get away with not drinking

How's everyone else doing today? I'm having a bit of a soup thing this week

x-post missg I thought you had a bfp cold too!! I also had problems with nurses and blood test bottles...when I was waiting to go for my erpc they had to call me back in as they wrote the wrong date of birth on my bottle and the lab wouldn't test it I'd already got bruises all the way up my arm from them taking it so I wasn't best pleased...strangely no bruises the second time around at all...think they saw what a mess they made the first time and thought they'd better be a bit more careful!!

And shimmery when are you going to test?

That weather sounds impressive MissG - I do love a good storm. I do worry when medics write tthe wrong names/details on tests...

Sadly, last night was a no go (DH and I were both quite late and it just wasn't going to happen). However, we are in with a fairly good chance anyway given that we managed days 9, 11 and 13 (the positive OPK day). I am due AF on 18 October Blue so will only test on 19 October if AF fails to show. I won't test before as my positives have only ever been fairly faint and last time the test was negative when I tested a couple of days early.

You escaped Poppy? I thought that was a mythical eventuality :) I do love my job, but I can also see why retiring from it is a good thing. Anyway - onto more important things - I also had a BFP cold. This is an excellent sign and I will be on tenterhooks until you test. I'm not sure whata tenterhook is, but still.

Waves to IQ Summer Pie Marathon Eve Pebs Pixie Wishing Baby and Smiley.

Blue on the day of an erpc of all days , that's not good. My arms were the same after my ectopic (several weeks of testing before final diagnosis, then 10 weeksof HcG tests until it got to 0). On one occasion, I bled all over the place - the nurse, the floor, my jeans! And, as DHwas going to Dubai later that day, we had planned to go into the airport an have lunch together before he went. But, as I had blood all over me, I had to just drop him and go home.

Shimmery me too, I love stormy weather - as long as cosily tucked up inside though! When we stayed in the Sheraton hotel on I Drive, Flroda, we were on the 9th floor, and watched a few spectacular lightening displays. AMAZING!
I'm impressed by your machine-like willpower by the way. I have caved everytime. You have covered the most important time, so FX for you.

Just a quick one - Pie you can see what you think of chart here

You can see I had a bit of a drop and it has come up a bit today. Recent luteal phase length has been 11 days so tomorrow could be crunch day.

PS chart says 11dpo as it is set on "research" method, on advanced it says 10dpo. Not sure why. I am treating it as the later date.

As for testing - well if I had anything other than digis I would definitely test. Can't get out to shops today as waiting in for my online grocery order this afternoon (and forgot to add in tests - what was I thinking!! ) so I guess I will have to wait it out.

If AF hasn't shown by then I will test on Saturday morning. Not feeling particularly optimistic for some reason but time will tell....

Sorry, chart link is here actually

Hope it works.

poppy well your temps are still way above the coverline! how exciting, ooooo please test !!

Just a quickie from the "my woes thread hogger" over the past few days with an update. I called the fertility clinic today as my GP referred me back in August and assured me it was only a 3 month waiting list. Anyway i'd not heard anything so phoned to see what was happening. They told me that the next appts weren't until February! At that point I nearly burst into tears!! Anyway I did get a little upset and explained my situation and she apologised and just said they had a backlog.

Well, an hour ago I just got a call to say they'd had a cancellation and could I go in on Monday. At least that is the ball rolling from the fertility clinic side. I am still going to speak to my GP about a private gynae referral as they can do the investigations sooner (is that allowed? to be seen at both NHS and private hospitals for similar investigations, but not the same as the private one doesn't do fertility). Not sure if FSH is bad quality eggs or low reserve? Or a mixture of both? Or is it that your body has to work harder to actually ovulate? Either way I'd rather not know Before I found out about the high FSH they would have given my clomid to boost my ovaries but now i'm not so sure as sometimes it can increase the FSH and it then stays that way so you go into early menopause. Ho Hum I guess it could go either way and a) they can help me or b) i'm told i'm peri-menopausal and i'm stuffed!

DP also has to go in and produce a sample in the hospital as we live too far away for him to get it there within an hour (and still at body temp!)

I also started the extra B6 (thanks manda) so am on 60mg a day if you include what's in my prenatal vits (and there is already 50mcg of B12 so that should cover me taking an equal amount of each one).

gives summer a big hug and inhales all of the germs that she got from poppy and shimmery in hope of a bfp cold!

I am only CD11 today and ovulation is normally between CD16 and CD19 so up and at em! It's not over, till it's over!! :)

shimmery the SWI is looking good! It's the days precluding Ov which are the important ones and looks like you have good innings there! :)

I also love a good storm! We spent a week camping on the North Uist (Outer Hebridies) a couple of years ago and it was wild! The wild was so bad that it would rip the pegs up and the door open and half of our groups' tents didn't survive the night. We had to crash on the nearby Youth Hostel floor the next night!

I had a thought last night about how much cash i've spent TTC so far including OPKs, pregnancy tests, acupuncture and a couple of books! EEK! Fingers crossed it will all be worth it xx