Assisted Conception (and all the bits in between) volume 8

[lucylookout]

Looks like we need a new thread for Italian, Scrummy, Beginnings, womanly, lissy, rowing, fretfree, Teds77, keziah, frustrated and anyone else who wants to chat about assisted conception!

Hello everyone

I've been on holiday and clearly have some catch up reading to do on this new thread. Apologies but this is going to be a me me me post....

Before I went on holiday I had my follow up appointment following my laparoscopy. Apparently my recovery is excellent considering the surgery I had. I had endometriomas (cysts) on both ovaries. One had grown from 3 to 5 cm since May. The other was 4cm. I had/have extensive endometriosis and everything was stuck together. My uterus is strongly adhered to my bowel and this would take major surgery to fix so that problem is still there. The consultant said after/inbetween IVF I should go on prostap (i.e. fake menopause) to stop the endo growing back and that in the longer term I was a good candidate for a hysterectomy! I'm normally pretty cheery but that made me a little low.

I've been reading medical papers on the internet and depressing myself further. At my scan in May they could only find 1 follicle in total which I'm sure you all appreciate is very rubbish. That and having severe endo doesn't bode at all well for IVF.

I've got my pre stimulation scan on Tues so I'll see what they can see then.

Vanilla congratulations on your ds.

level - good to hear you recovered well from the lap. although only one follicle in May, perhaps a few cycles after your lap things will be very different? Also with ivf, the stimming medication will help nature along all being well. All the best for Tue's scan.

level sorry you're feeling low. As much as possible, I think you should stop researching and try to wait until you can talk to your drs again. It's great that you are recovering so well after lap. Is it possible they couldn't see more follicles that were there (in the same way that they sometimes can't see an ovary). I agree with keziah, after a few cycles your body will recover even more, and the drugs should help your follicles along too. Remember, it only takes one.

level welcome back. Hope you had a good break. That must have been very hard to hear. But as hard as it is, it is with your health in mind. If they are still happy to proceed with the IVF, then there is still a chance. Please hang onto this thought. I know some women find help in using coil with endo. Has that option been discussed rather than drugs? Let's hope there will be no need for either. Will be thinking of you tomorrow.

Lucy thanks for your helpful advise. I've called the surgery and left a message with my GP

val- A hearty congrats on the birth of your son!

level- Glad to hear you're recovered from your lap. Lucy is absolutely right...it only takes one! Keep your chin up and don't give up hope!

rowing- Still injecting...only Clexane, though, which will be right up until I'm 34 weeks or so. No more bum shots, I'm so pleased!

italian- How's it going with the drugs?

AFM, had appointment with a consultant today, who agreed that I should get a scan to measure the length of my cervix. That should happen in the next couple of weeks, hopefully. Will also get scanned at 25 and 28 weeks. Was given the green light to travel, all things being well, and was also given the green light to eat sushi if I want, but that's going to wait until I go to Philly on October 17. Was also given a prescription for the Clexane and the Cyclogest pessaries, so no more money coming out of my wallet! Other than that, super-tired, as no more sleeping tablets left for me. I guess it's better this way, cold turkey, and my body is forced to sleep....

Hugs and chocolate boobs to everyone I didn't get a chance to say hi to....

Evening all, just a couple of questions from me today:
I have a friend who suspects she might have immunes issues. What tests, if any can you get done on nhs?
Secondly, lissy, planning ahead but when do you have to go in twice a day at argc? Beginning or just end of stimming? Also, what time of day do you need to go for second test? It's ds's 4th bday next month and am planning his party, making sure it doesn't clash with any treatment requirements!

Hi folks

I'm still catching up on who's doing what so forgive the lack of personals to everyone.

Italian I'm so sorry your last cycle failed. Everything crossed for this one for you! If our DE cycle had failed I'm not sure we'd have carried on - it takes so many internal resources to make a decision like this and stick with it that a knock would have finished me off, so hats off to you for keeping at it! I also think of the friends you've mentioned and hope they're doing well.

Rowing I see you've had a rocky road, big squidge back and this'll be the one.

Lucy not nosey at all! We went to a clinic in Greece, called Serum. After 3 failed IVFs in the UK, I really needed to believe I was going to back a horse that stood a chance of winning, and 70% success rates with donor eggs there rather than the UK average of 30% swung it for me. It's very different from the UK, not slick but you're not restricted to the regulation 10 minutes per appointment, and they do seem to take a more tailored approach. Not sure what I'd think if it hadnt worked, of course!

Pocket our first cycle was at HSFC, is that huge fish tank table still there? Very best of luck with your cycle.

Level we haven't met but I just wanted to send you hugs. I remember being told there was no point in stimulating my ovaries, can't remember what the follie numbers were now but they were very low. Do you have someone who you trust to really give you the medical lowdown? It can be soul destroying not being given an honest picture of what your options really are, when all you know is that things arent great. I dont know what your situation is, but Dr Geeta Nargund at Create was the person who gave me the best advice and enabled me to finally let go of IVF and move onto DE (not that I'm suggesting this is what you should do! but a Geeta equivalent to advise you sounds like she might come in handy round about now!) Good luck with your scan tomorrow.

We're off to Greece for a holiday on wednesday and if all goes well, having ET at the end, on 19 sept. We have 6 frosties waiting for us. The possible complication is that I have a cyst on my ovary, hopefully they're compensating for it with extra progynova, but it could still sink things, we'll see.

Hi all,

Just a quickie but wanted to send a hug to Level. I do feel for you and I hope things do start to calm down and the endo responds to the treatment. I have seen enough women on these forums have one egg or two and end up with one baby or two.

Lissy hooray for your bum (not having jabs I mean) and fingers crossed the pregnancy hormones and exhaustion make you nod off.

Vallin fantastic news about Teddy Fox. Thank you for letting us know and give him a little tickle from me.

Mojangles thank you for the squidge! I do hope this is the one as well.

Lucy I think it depends on the GP, it is possible to have level 1 tests on the NHS, but they don't all do them. Mine claimed ignorance and refused. Perhaps your friend could look at the immunes board on FF to see if they have any advice? Oh and glad you are feeling calmer, your plans might just all pan out you know...

Keziah hope you find a nice mat swimming cossie - a lot of shops have maternity ranges now, but Mothercare are usually a good port of call. I had a look at Vertbaudet to see if they had any in the sale, but they were still full-price. If you need any input on swimwear choice let us know.

Hi to Scrummy, Pocket and Italian

Not much to add, but I think I might have ringworm. DP had it and now I have odd red rash things, so I'll have to go to the chemist for cream. Apparently, there is a tablet? Have to boil my clothes now, what next, moths, ringworm... urgh!

Hi all

Level I am so sorry to hear that things are not very good for you at the moment. I can only echo the advice of Mojangles and say that it would be good to get a clearer picture for you. It is horrible to think of a hysterectomy but presumably you can put that on hold for later and just focus for now on the family you wish to have. Is this baby number 1 you are trying for? One thing a friend did when she had endometriosis was to have it lazered off with BUPA. They did say it would come back but it gave her the optimum health for the moment of her ovaries to try and conceive. Sorry that is CRAP English but I hope you know what I mean. I am not sure BUPA or laser treatment is an option for you but at least you can ask the doctor what is best. Good luck, try and not give up hope. Thinking of you and sending up arrow prayers for things to improve. Also, I got pregnant with one follicle and IUI 6 years ago and she is asleep upstairs, so it does work with just one follicle. Hugs.

Mojangles so delighted you have frozen embies and don?t have to go through this whole thing again. I keep daring to hope this will work for me too! In the UK at my clinic the stats are a bit higher than 30 but not as high as 70. I am hoping the drugs will all make a difference. Daring to hope that this will work!

Rowing honey, ring worm, you poor soul . Hope you are better soon.

Immunes, Lucy, hard to tell, take a look at www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article1049620.ece and ask your clinic what tests you could have to find out about NK (natural killer) cells, your Thyroid, your blood, is it too thick/sticky. The clinic should be able to advise you what is needed and then you can say you will have a think and see which tests (if any) your GP will do. I agree with Rowing check out fertility friends. Are you still on to be my cycle buddy! My boss said we need to go a day trip with work next month! I am desperate to get it out of the way so that it is done, I will volunteer to organise so I can control when it is! Sneaky or necessary?!

Beginnings, any news? hugs.

Keziah, lissy, Scrummy, Pocket, Flip, Val, Womanly, woowa, fretfree, marmite, frustrated, Pumpkinjoy and Teds77* - baby dust hi to all.

And chocolate boobs

Hi all,
I forgot to say that I have heard very good things about Serum. They do a hysteroscopy to check the state of the uterine lining and can clear scar tissue and make 'implantation points' to help the embies take.
Not sure, but it may help with endo sufferers Level?

mojangles it's nice to meet you. Congrats on your little one and the best of luck for this cycle.

Keziahopes hope you get a costume you like and manage to get in the water zoom.

vanillinnapod congrats on your little one. It's so heartening to hear good news stories on this thread.

level good luck with the scan today and hang on in there. I hope you are given reason to feel more upbeat soon.

lissysilver you're doing so well. You must be very pleased with yourself.

lucylookout there's a lot that you can do on the NHS. If your friend talks to their consultant, I just then was sent with a list to the doctor.

Rowing poor you! I hope if it's ringworm it gets sorted quickly.

Womanly how are you doing?

Thanks for asking italian. We saw a heartbeat this morning. Phew. It's only one, it's in the right place, measuring right for dates. Feel strangely calm but not excited. Now have my NHS clexane and prednisolone which is good. Question, for those on prednisolone, how long are you going to take it for?

Wonderful news beginning on the scan.
Am doing ok - wave to everyone.

Hi, I havent logged on mumsnet for a little while - waves to everyone, hope you are doing ok. beginnings great news about the heartbeat. Not so surprised that you are feeling calm but not excited. Still some way to go but it must be a relief! Well done. Another step in the right direction.

Thanks for your thoughts lissy and scrummy. I have finally decided to go for it so today is my first downregulation day. I didn't sleep all night last night and I must have checked the bloody spray 50 times to make sure it was working. I had never used a nasal spray before in my life (...) and I had to experiment with one of DH hay fever sprays to see how it worked. I think I have mastered it though. Anyway, decided that the tx comes first so I have asked work for 2 weeks off sick leave during the second stimms week and ET/EC. We will see what happens.

Anyway have a lovely afternoon - its SOOO cold and rainy. Isnt it officially still summer?

Hi all,
Beginnings what lovely news! I completely understand how you feel, don't want to get carried away until you feel 'safe' which is when your baby is born - or is it even then. Oh the worry never ends!

Frustrated we have blustery weather here, it's kind of sunny though, but the wind is ridiculous. I think the clocks are called British Summer Time, but I don't think they actually indicate the end of SUmmer, unless you consider October to be Summer - which is very optimistic.
My birthday is tomorrow and I consider myself to be an Autumn baby.

Went to Boots and the rancid pharmacist (I just don't like the man: very dismissive and impatient) said it could be a fungal thing, but he didnt' think it was ringworm. Bought some anti-fungal cream, so we shall see...
I have been taking high epa fish oil, which is supposed to lower NK cells naturally, but I think it is making me feel queasy and yuck. Has anyone else ever taken these capsules?

beginnings that's great news on the hb. rowing is right, this is only the beginning of the worry joys of parenthood

frustrated it really isn't meant to be used as an air freshener you know hope tonight is a better night. You must feel good about having made the decision. Good luck with your journey!

rowing I take the Sanatogen omega 3, which has 180mg of epa. Not sure what effect it may have though

level how did the scan go?

Hi everyone. Word of gloom, summer officially ends on August 31 and boy does it look like winter where I am today

Hi all

Thank you for all the lovely messages. It's nice to have somewhere to offload especially as my DH is working abroad for the next week and my twin who I usually whinge to is in South America for 3 weeks.

The scan went well. It was the one to check that down regulation has worked before starting the stimulation phase of IVF. My lining is very thin (good at this stage and not surprising as I think the consultant did a lot of removing/lazering during my op!). My ovaries are apparently very small but again that doesn't surprise me given the size of the cysts that were removed.

The good news is that I have more than one follicle! I have 3 on the left and 6 on the right. Whilst that is still is reduced count according to this website www.advancedfertility.com/antralfollicles.htm, it's a massive improvement and has given me some more hope. It makes sense as my FSH is 8.3 and AMH is 16 which are both a little poor but not exactly disastrous.

I start on menopur on Thursday. I'm on 450 (not sure what the measure is). It's 6 bottles and 2 shots a day. Any views on whether morning or evening injections are better?

Mojangles - I hope it all goes well in Greece. 70% is pretty impressive! I have a twin sister and 3 younger sisters and have been prepping them to donate eggs. Obviously my twin would be ideal as we're identical so any baby from her eggs would be genetically mine. The only trouble is that she has had unprotected sex for 3 years with her last 2 bfs and hasn't got pregnant (she hasn't been "trying" so not gone to the doc yet). She has endo too but I don't think it's as bad as mine.

Having a twin actually makes it a bit easier for me to let go of the desire to have my own genetic children. We're genetically identical but we're quite different in a lot of ways. It makes it easy for me to know that it's not all about the genes.

Italian - yes, we're ttc #1. For reference/ the list I'm 33, ttc 2 years, DH is fine.

One thing that's slightly annoying is that DH and I got married last month and a few people - men actually - have said "does this mean you're having a baby soon?". It's annoying partly because it shows they don't know me - I've been with DH 16 years and am not exactly traditional in my approach to life so I'm surprised that the think I need a ring on my finger before considering a baby. It also annoys me because it's inappropriate and could upset some people. I'm normally pretty chilled and pragmatic and the questions haven't upset me so far. Last time as I was asked I said "What if the answer to that was that I couldn't have children or that I've had a series of horrible miscarriages - would you want to know then?", and the guy laughed it off like it was a funny unlikely hypothetical situation.

beginnings- YAY to the heartbeat! That's such fantastic news! I'm just starting to wean off my prednisolone now. I started taking it about two weeks after my embryo transfer, and will be fully weaned off next week. So I think you should plan on taking it until you hit your second trimester.

lucy- More towards your second week of stimming is when you'll be asked to have repeat bloods or scans. The earlier you get there in the morning, the better. I was asked to wait around a few of the days, so be prepared for that. I would aim to get there at 7:30 AM for your bloods...they ask you to do that anyway.

frustrated- Glad to hear you've decided to start. I did the same thing with my nasal spray...kept making sure it was working. I got two bottles, and kept one in my purse and one by my bedside.

level- Your tests sound very positive, as well as your follicle count! Focus on the positives! I have a fraternal twin sister, and we're very close, but it's pretty amazing to have an identical twin sister who is so close genetically. But you'll cross that bridge when you come to it...

AFM, have to go to ARGC tomorrow for repeat immunes. I haven't been there in so long!

Waves to everyone, catch up tomorrow...

Beginnings Great news on the scan. I?d check with your clinic how long to take the prednisolone for.
Level so glad that you have lots more follicles than you thought! What a thoughtless comment from your friend about getting married and babies! I am interested in your comments about identical twin and genetics. How amazing that if you did have a baby with her egg it would be genetically yours too! I wonder if any identical twin pairs have married and had kids. I thought about the whole thing of donor eggs and as I am 46 a baby that would be genetically mine would up against the odds a bit, I mean more likely to have a miscarriage (sorry for people of 46 trying with own eggs ? I am actually 46 and a half and I think I am by far the oldest one on here!). Also, anyway, I don?t seem to have any/many eggs. So actually for me a donor egg is the best option.

Hi all Keziah, lissy, Mojangles, Scrummy, Rowing, Teds77, Pocket, Flip, Lucy, Val, Womanly, woowa, fretfree, marmite, frustrated, level and Pumpkinjoy - baby dust hi to all.

Thanks all. I am really pleased. It just takes a bit of getting used to that we're here!

I had an email from my consultant yesterday and apparently I'll start to be weaned off the prednisolone at 12 weeks, I presume at that point they think it's safe. The clexane and aspirin will be the whole way through because of the mutated factor v.

Level, I was on 300 of menopur so four bottles and 1.5 vials. At some point someone told me night time was better as the drugs metabolise better overnight. I also found that easier as once I was done, I was in my pjs and could go to sleep!

beginnings congrats on scan and hb. What week are you? At my clinic I was told to wean off prednisilone at week 12; it is a 3 week wean, so totally off by 15 weeks. Also stop the utrogestran pessaries at week 12. I have clexane all the way through but no aspirin. It is great you got them on nhs prescription!

level - 9 follies is impressive!

Italian all best with treatment.

Hi Keziahopes. I'll be seven weeks tomorrow. What dosage of prednisolone are you on? I'm on 25mgs daily. And are they going to monitor your cytotoxicity levels as you come off? I get the impression that they won't do that for me and I confess that makes me a bit nervous. I have an appointment with George Ndwuke booked for later this month that I'm thinking about keeping in order to get a second opinion...

Hi all,

level just wanted to say congratulations on the scan, it sounds very promising!
YOu sound a lot more upbeat, which is lovely, don't want to have a miserable time of it, assisted conception is tough enough.

Keziah how's the swimming cossie hunt?

Beginnings how have you found taking 25mg of steroids? I think I took 10mg and I found that too much on top of everything else. Dreading the drug regime for the next FET. Wah!

Beginnings - I am on 20mg prednisilone. No, definitely no monitoring for me as the IVF clinic signed me off at 8 weeks. I was under George also - but he left the clinic I was at when I was 9 weeks or so to start his new clinic, otherwise I would ask. He was SO delighted with our natural bfp - he said the finance dept wouldn't be, but he was (and he was their Director there!) He was SO genuine and saw us every time we went to the clinic for scans after bfp (had 2) and sorted out all my immune meds, wrote to my Gp to get as much on NHS prescription as possible and so on. 7 weeks, wow not far behind me.

rowing - a friend has given me her hardly used tankini - so am sorted I have, however, ordered a coat, 2 cardi's and pj's online so it is feeling more real now. All the best next week.

Rowing I don't think I find the prednisolone too hard. Do you take it first thing in the morning and with food? I've been told that's really important but you're right, the drugs are hard!

Keziahopes how far along are you? I thought you were way ahead of me!!

Hi all,
Mojangles thanks for the info about Serum and good luck with your treatment there. Sounds like you had the right idea, adding the treatment to the end of a 2 week holiday!
Rowing DS has ringworm and it's a right br to get rid of. Luckily DH and I haven't caught it (yet). It is a fungal infection, but try to get something with hydrocortisone in from the off (as well as the anti fungal stuff) as that seems to be what shifts it. Also thanks (and italian) for immunes advice. Have passed it on to my friend.
Italian still hoping I might be your cycle buddy. I should know by end of Sept. Hope your drugs are going OK.
Beginnings Congratulations on seeing the HB. What wonderful news!
Hope the downregging is going OK Frustrated and you've got the hang of the spray!

Level wow, 9 follies. That's fab and definitely something to be hopeful about.
Thanks for info about testing Lissy. Hope you're doing OK (getting a little bump yet?)
AFM well, I had my consultation at the Lister today with a lovely lady Dr who specialises in low AMH and high FSH. She was very positive and upbeat and made me feel very confident about possibly moving there if my FSH doesn't behave for ARGC. So, feel very relieved I have that as a back up. (Oh and Scrummy she confirmed the polyps could have been causing my spotting.)
But on the subject of FSH, I got this month's results back from my DRs and FSH is 8.6 this month, which I'm chuffed to bits about. I hope it means my pure and gluten free diet has had an effect (italian I had a bit of an 'inconceivable' moment where I thought, wow, I do good things to my body and it responds positively. It made me feel just a little more in control of what's going on).
And while I think of it, does anyone (Rowing?) know of any good ways to reduce cytokines naturally (gluten free already does this, but anything else I should avoid or eat more of?)
Phew, that's a long enough post I think. I've more than made up for not being on for a few days!
Have a lovely evening all x