Assisted Conception (and all the bits in between) volume 8

[lucylookout]

Looks like we need a new thread for Italian, Scrummy, Beginnings, womanly, lissy, rowing, fretfree, Teds77, keziah, frustrated and anyone else who wants to chat about assisted conception!

Just a me update - was driving myself mad yesterday, although the massage was beautiful and I nearly fell asleep. Couldn't stay at home, so we nipped into the cinema, but the obsession started again as soon as we got home. So, I decided to take the bull by the horns and POAS. It's a BFN. I'll test again on Tuesday, but doubt very much I'll get a different result. I had a little cry with DH and then a good chat about next steps and we decided to skip treatment next cycle and just run the immunes, just in case. I'm absolutely fine now, even if little disappointed. I now know my body responds well to the drugs, I know how ARGC operate so am familiar with the process and my anxieties about it are gone, so I can feel more relaxed about the next treatment cycle.

Hope you're all enjoying the weekend and good luck teds and sunnyg

scrummy I'm sorry and I hope u are ok. I had a day feeling really down but have been feeling positive since then and it's good that you are already agreeing what you want the next steps to be, it really helps. Take care x

scrummy did you do the test last night or this morning. With any luck it's just too early, but if it stays a BFN I completely agree that immunes testing without waiting around any longer is a really good plan. But in the mean time, I hope you're ok and that you and DH do something nice and distracting today.

lissy thanks, I think I'm only 5 weeks today or tomorrow, so I guess it is a bit early to feel much different. It's still such an emotional roller coaster though isn't it. When I get my blood taken i'm distracted and nervy until I get my results. So far my results have been good, so I relax for all of about 5 minutes until I start worrying about the next set of results! I'm hopeless, I know. Even more silly is that I know that this is by far the better option than having a BFP but being kept in the dark until the first 12 week scan! At least the blood tests pass the days!

Am currently hanging about in the 'natural kitchen' which all ARGCers seem quite familiar with, waiting for the chemist to open to get some more clexane.

Hope everyone has a good Sunday

scrummy sweetie, I'm sorry to hear your news. But you have the right attitude. Immunes and knowing how the clinic operates are sure to make things go more smoothly for you.

Lucy- I know it's hard not to obsess. I did the same thing after my mc last year. But I was so confident in the clinic that I let myself relax into their capable care. I love The Natural Kitchen! My boyfriend upstairs always made me a lovely bagel with cream cheese, avocado, and tomato. Yum!

Scrummy sorry to hear the news of your early test. Hoping for you it changes, but if it doesn't immune testing sounds a very good thing to do. Although I eventually got a natural bfp after failed ICSI and 7yrs ttc naturally it was on immune treatment in prep for the next ICSI and immune treatment that enabled me to maintain a pregnancy thus far.

Lucy - once I got a bfp I thought that was it, but actually it just welcomes you into different anxious 2week type-waits ( first scan, first heartbeat seen, end of some immune meds, first NHS scan, next NHS scan, viability) - or rather it has for me. As Care discharges people at 8 weeks pregnant, and because my consultant wrote to my Gp at 8 weeks for discharge (private consultant) my Gp started giving me NHS prescriptions for prednisilone, clexane and levothyroxine as he could understand medical reasons why I need those (not for the progesterone or IL's, but all helps!). Like Lissy, not bought much yet, too nervous!

Lucy great news with numbers (i'm sorry that i dont totally understand it all but I appreciate you're saying its good). Good luck with immunes tomorrow. Let us know how you get on.

Scrummy, so sorry about BFN - is it poss that you'd get a different result with the official test? i really hope so x

Lissy great idea about doing your place up - nice for you and DP too as well as the little one. And great to get it out of the way before you have your hands full

kezia sorry about your scan gap - would/could you treat yourself to one before 32 weeks? What happens if you make a fuss at the clinic/gp, would that ever make a difference? Thanks for your immunes info, as a serious first timer and total naiive novice at all of this its all really helpful. My consultant has already put me on prednisolone - its good to know that poss I could get that through gp if I need to!?

rowing are you okay? are you back on Wednesday for your official test?

teds, sunnyg, hope you're staying calm-ish

big wave to italian, josie and anyone else I might have missed

AFM scan on Friday didn't go as well as hoped, lining not as thick as it should have been (think it was due to a couple of hiccups with my pills and patches), so i'm back for another scan tomorrow. Please God its all back on track. DE collection is next week, DP does his bit then too - then i should be taking centre stage 3/5 days after that. Should get dates firmed up tomorrow
xxx

Hi Ladies

Hope you don't mind me joining in...pocket1 directed me here (thanks!) following a post I made (copied below). Any thoughts greatly welcomed, just trying to get my head around the range of things we can do to help, and the range of organisations out there.

.........
Has anyone ever heard of / been to an organisation called fertility care? Me and Hubby are thinking of going there (our dog walker recommended them as an alternative to IVF).
Hoping to go for an introductory session soon to find out more about it, but just wondering if anyone here has had any experience of them - and did it work!!
Been trying to conceive for 18 months now - no joy. Had tests done after 6 months - due to my age (36!) and both mine and his tests came back as normal. Got to the point now when we think we need to try and do something to help things along (to think I thought Id end up with 4 children!), but a little wary of IVF so want to try something else first.

Pocket - hope next scan much better.

We would go private for a scan, however there is none near us that will do the type of scan we need for reassurance which is whether my left part of my placenta is working better/worse - private scans within 1hr of us are gender/3d only.

Hi katotonic - no I have not heard of fertility care. What do they do? I know it can take ages to conceive naturally even if no identified issues for some couples and there are changes people can make to lifestyle/diet etc that could help. I know when preparing for IVF the clinic made recommendations for supplements, diet etc to help.

Rowing ... sweetie, I really really really wanted this for you (not more than you did for yourself I know). Big huge hugs to you darling. How's it going? Are you through the numb phase and into the rage? Thinking of you loads

Scrummy hang in there Chickie, fat lady's still got her trap shut...

Pocket I'd definitely go for two if you're still thinking about it. DS is the baby that got through of 3 DE transferred I(in fact of 6 if you count the failed DE cycle). I agree that it would be nice for DE siblings to have each other to talk to.

Lucy that is completely stunning of you! how fabulous!

Katotonic sorry I dont know about Fertility Care, but I bet someone will come along soon who does. The one I have come across is Zita West's clinic, which I think does similar things, and has a fantastic reputation.

Hugs to everyone else. I'm in a slightly non-TTC place at the moment, although considering doing immunes, so I'll creep back to my lurking zone sending chocolate boobs to everyone.

Hi
Its info document says:

"The focus of treatment in the Life FertilityCare Programme is to ensure that effective hormonal surges (pre and post ovulation) occur at appropriate times of the cycle.
An accurate charting system ensures blood tests are correctly timed to check and monitor these surges.
We work to achieve more stringent oestradiol and progesterone ranges than many programmes."

New to all this tbh, spent many months thinking if we gave it a go, didnt stress about it, then it would just happen.

Oh dearest rowing there are no words.

Scrummy I am so sorry.

Pocket hope all will go well at next appointment.

Hi all

LUCY massive hugs to you.

Keziah sorry you have to wait for scan, hope all will go well.

Lissy hugs to you.

Lucy and Josie yes my friend knows, she is just a bit dopey at times.

Josie my hubby came with me for HSG and it was helpful. Sorry your friend is not so helpful re facebook, it is hard, they are excited about their own pregnancy, I do understand but it is still tough at times on us.

Keziah and Lucy can you girls explain to me when you have the interlipids?

Weller hugs.

Hope I have not missed anyone out.

Doing a lot better on the weight loss front.

Hope all are well.

katotinic welcome. Sorry, never heard of that organisation but I have had a look at their website of it is lifefertilitycare.co.uk/

Please do correct me if that is not the correct website.

My clinic if called Care Fertility and is a regular fertility clinic, one of a chain of clinics.

I am sure it is good for some people to try alternative methods etc. Some may work and some may not. More to the point some may work for some people and not for others, so I have no idea what will work for you.

All I would say is, if you do try other stuff first; if it does not work do not be scared of looking into a fertility consolation. IVF is not the only thing on offer, there are drugs, like Clomed (which might help) and IUI (which does not involve removing any eggs, and is a much simpler procedure).

I would just say seek professionally trained medical help and evaluate all that is relevant for you.

I would also check to see what you are entitled to under NHS, because as you get older things will become un-available to you and it is worth just seeing what is relevant. Some local PCT (Primary Care Trusts) will look at things like at your age and may take other things into consideration so just ask what is available and what ages apply so you know. Whatever you choose to do, I do hope it works for you and feel free to ask us anything, most of us have experienced different things at different times and maybe we have had more than our fair share of successes and failures!

Off to bed, hugs to Rowing, scrummy and all you lovely ladies.

keziah precisely, that's exactly how I feel. I don't have a clue when I might actually relax, probably a couple of weeks after new baby is home, but for now there are daily and weekly milestones to pass. One day at a time is my mantra. And that's good to know about your dr being happy to write those prescriptions. Mine are very helpful so hopefully will do that too when the time comes.

pocket we had a conversation about linking thickness on here recently. Orgasms and acupuncture help, as both increase blood flow to the area. Hope the scan goes well today.

katatonic I haven't heard of them either sorry, but think Italian gives very good advice. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

thanks mojangles, hope you're enjoying your not ttc zone for the moment, drink yourself merry and eat as many mince pies as you fancy over Christmas.

Italian it's IVIG I might be having today. I can't say I really know how it works. What I do know is it is a blood based product that is administered via a drip and distracts NK Cells from the embryo. It takes 3 - 4 hours and costs a fortune, although if it works I really don't care.

AFM HCG rose to over 2000 yesterday, so that's still going in the right direction, and progesterone has picked up a bit at 163. Had to be at ARGC at 7.30 today for blood tests, and am currently hanging about in the cafe round the corner for a call at 10.30 to tell me if IVIG will go ahead.

Thinking of rowing and scrummy and hope everyone is doing ok

Morning ladies, thought I would butt in here as I don't really belong in any of the other threads.

At what point would you decide to go back and investigate assisted conception? I have severe endo, a lot of pain that makes conception itself a bit arduous at times and although we have been trying for over a year we have not been consistent so it's hard to know whether we 'can't' conceive or if we have not been doing enough to conceive, IYSWIM.

The endo clinic who saw me before ttc said we could come back and they would treat us, as I am obviously quite affected by the endo. They suggested give it a year due to my age (38) but I feel like we have not really 'given' it a year properly.

Also, I have no idea what they would do or try or even if I want to go down that route. My partner is more keen but I think he imagines that most of the clinical stuff will be about me not him, so it's maybe a bit of an easier decision for him!

Anyway, I am not sure where to go from here. I know I need to get 'back in the saddle' and give it a good try again, but do I start the ball rolling in the meantime, waiting lists being what they are?

Anyhoo, sorry to barge in

Italian - Care prescribes (well George the immune dr who was at Care) intralipids instead of IVIG, but for the same reason. Due to raised NK cells or TH1 cytkotine levels raised (if I remember rightly - will dig out letter later to check). Intralipids stop body rejecting the embryo I was told. I had 3 in total - have them done at home about £285 each, much cheaper than IVIG and as it is just good fats etc, it is not a blood product etc. George used to do IVIG, then when Intralipids came out switched what he treated.

Tiger - hi. If I was your age, I personally would not leave it any longer, as in our PCT NHS treatment stops age 39 (think that is fairly common) so if you tried another year you would get no NHS testing or treatment at all. And NHS says if over 35 you only have to try 6mths before testing and treatment. Sadly it is usually the woman that has to go through most of the treatment. For us it took 13 months on the NHS to do all the tests, with waiting lists - so might be worth getting your name on the waiting list even if you change your mind before the appointment. It is the NHS testing and treatment that takes time - but if need Endo surgery or HSG's privately that is expensive. After all my tests and diagnosis (and dh will have to have at least one semen analysis test!) it then took 3 months to start treatment, but that was because we realised we could transfer funding (one NHS cycle only) to a private company near us (Care), otherwise it would have been at least 6mths - 1yr before we had treatment. Ultimately it is what you both want.

Hi ladies, I hope you don?t mind me barging in like this but I have a couple of questions which I was wondering whether you could help me with as I am getting further along with ttc. Quick background, I am a permanent resident over on the TTC 10+mths thread. We have been ttc #1 for 19months now and ivf is looming next year (I will probably head towards ARGC as it?s close to where i work). I had an early m/c some 17mths ago (conceived quickly) and since then nothing. DH?s SA is fine. The only thing that i know is slightly off is my LP is slightly short at 10/11 days and progesterone levels were 30. AMH bordering on low for my age (i?m 32). But nothing else apparently is wrong with all the basic tests. We have spent a lot of money going private for the last 9months where i was put on clomid (even though i ovulate every single month & this gave me a LP of 8days!) and recently I have been doing IUI. My 3rd IUI this month was cancelled as my gynae over stimulated me a bit on the gonal F injections ? not a dangerous amount but she didn?t want to risk me having quintuplets. Anyway, DH and I have now decided to stop all the interventions for a few months and save for ivf...(which i?m terrified of!)

Sorry for the ramble but I was wondering whether there is any other route you think i should be going down before IVF?, i.e. I have been reading that some of you have had immunology testing. Is this worth testing for before IVF ? Those of you who have been tested and it showed you have elevated NK cells etc, was there any inkling that something was wrong? I know it?s not good to be sitting here trying to self diagnose myself but I am so baffled as to why nothing is happening and when a really good consultant who is a specialist in sub-fertility tells me something should have happened by now and doesn?t really know what else to do with me; I sort of feel I need to be proactive and think about what i need to do next although DH thinks we should probably just relax about everything...grrr.

Also , I see some of you are familiar with ARGC ? do you recommend?

Just wanted to say that I'm sorry for what everyone is going through on here - I know there are positive stories as well but it is very humbling to read when you know that pregnancy is enjoyable and easy journey for so many.

Hi joycep, welcome to the thread. I'm at ARGC and would recommend it. I have one ds conceived naturally, but since him had a pregnancy loss at 20 weeks and at 8 weeks. I had one unsuccessful IUI elsewhere before moving to ARGC. They recommended immunes testing and if turns out I had some raised levels. They gave me a drug called humira to bring the raised immunes down and I conceived naturally while waiting for my cycle to start. I can only think that it must have been the drug kicking in. It's still very early days for me so who knows what will happen, but ARGC are good and we have a few success stories on here from them. There are also other drs that have good reputations for immunes, but tbh if you're going to go to ARGC you might as well get it all done in the same place.

Also, are you doing everything right in terms of diet and nutrition? And acupuncture can sometimes help regulate hormones and lengthen LP.

Rowing how you doing, honey?

Scrummy big hugs to you.

TigerseyeMum you are not barging in at all. You are most welcome. I agree totally with Keziah after 35 or 36 try for six months only and yes, get on the case and do not try without help any longer. If I were you I would go back to the endo clinic and start the ball rolling, ask what they can do and at the same time investigate NHS fertility treatment. 38 is young to me (I am 46!!!!) but actually or trying to conceive you maybe need to think about being more proactive. If sex is difficult due to pain (that was what I inferred from you post please correct me if I am wrong) I would find out how you can make it less painful and I would also investigate how you can try more precisely around the correct time. I have no idea what either clinic will suggest but I would get all the best advice you can and I would try and make a concerted effort to get the ball rolling. Also, I wonder if you maybe need to get your head around it a bit. You say your partner is more keen than you. Is there something holding you back, fear of something or anything else (money worries, medical stuff, issues?). If there are I would certainly try and address the concerns. I think although you are the right side of 40 you do need to take this seriously if you would like a baby, some people seem to get pregnant quickly but I know endometriosis can cause problems with conception (not for all) so I would just try and calmly find out all your options and also give some thought into what it is you are working towards, and rolling that ball at! I can honestly say becoming a mum is wonderful and I hope you will find out what you really want and the very best way to get to it.

Ohh err Keziah I like the sound of CHEAPER and good fats etc, not a blood product. So I need to ask Dr about IVIG for raised NK cells or TH1 cytkotine levels raised - stops body rejecting the embryo, may need 3 in total at about £285 each. Thanks that is great.

joycep hi and welcome, you are not barging at all either. Sorry I can?t help, I am not sure exactly what to recommend but I would investigate which immunology testing you can get on the NHS and get anything you can done for free (which is non-invasive and helpful) done. My tests showed a thyroid problem. Which I now take tablets for. Good luck.

Lucy I am going to ask about humira to bring the raised immunes down, if I do have raised immunes.

Hugs to all, love and baby dust and chocolate boobs!

Can I ask how many of you conceived naturally before IVF and how many of you conceived naturally after IVF (or after other treatment). I wonder if we have a smattering of both. I have never known this activity on the thread!

TigerseyeMum oopse, I did not mean "do not try without help any longer." I meant get some help now but also keep trying naturally too while getting help, you never know! As you investigate the treatment you can also think about any other issues. I would not wait to start investigating, time is not helpful. There are lists etc for tests or treatment you could get onto where as if you wait a year or so you may not be eligable for NHS treatment. If you have been trying for a year I would say it, even if you have not had sex at the right time every single month. Be positive and proactive and do get back to us if you want to share more.

PS anyone when i ask about people who conceived naturally after or before IVF some people might think it sounds like it happened anyway, but I do wonder who of you who got pregnant 'naturally' felt your IVF treatment contributed to the pregnancy. Only if you want to share! Thanks

thanks italian. wise words there.
Ive just made an appointment to see the GP on Wednesday morning to talk all this through - before we go rushing off elsewhere. Is there anything in particular I should ask the GP or should I basically just say, been trying to conceive since July / Aug 2010, had tests in Jan 2011, still nothing happening - what you going to do about it? In a nice way obviously..

Thanks everyone - I rang the clinic and I need another GP referral, but my thyroid test results came back abnormal again - I am underactive and the GPs mess about with dosage but never seem to get it right - so I will see a GP hopefully tomorrow and get the ball rolling.

Underactive thyroids plus stage 4 endo do not equal good baby-making! So I think I will need all the help I can get!