TTC 6+ months plus, part 2

[skeletonbones]

New thread as the old one was getting to 1000. So, 4 BFP's in the last thread, lets see if we can up the total considerably on this one :)

I would change hospitals if you can fatima, if you think you will get better service. I would also be tempted to formally complain about that nurse too, telling you that you can't have children is just plain wrong.

I'm feeling sorry for myself ( please don't read on if you don't like blood tests! ).

I had to have my blood test this morning for progesterone, although I don't see any point because I clearly haven't ovulated and I am bleeding now so today is CD1 but the Dr wanted to do it anyway . I also had to have my prolactin done again because it was high last time. Sometimes it is high because of stress from the prick of the needle (the body reacts to pain and produces prolactin) so the idea was that they would put the needle in and then wait 30 minutes before drawing the blood. The nurse made me lie down on the bed and then she sprayed antiseptic spray on my arm and inserted the needle. She then drew a few vials of blood (for various hormone tests I think) and then she had to inject saline and clamp the tube thing and wait for 30 mins. But when she started injecting the saline, my arm went all red and swelled up and it pushed the needle out of the vein. This was quite painful. She asked the Dr to come and look and they concluded that I'd had some sort of reaction so they tried the other arm and the same thing happened. Luckily they had already collected enough vials of blood but not any from waiting 30 mins but hopefully the prolactin will come back as normal because if not they will have to try again. I've never been allergic to anything before, I wonder if it was the antiseptic spray? They don't normally use that in the Uk do they? But I was fine last time they took blood so it's all a bit strange. Anyway my arms are really sore and bruised now and I can't bend them properly. Now, I know I'm going to be worried about giving blood again when It's never bothered me in the past. Why do these things always happen to me? See, I told you I was feeling sorry for myself. I'm supposed to be going to a friend's this afternoon and it's very hot so she's going to think I'm very strange if I go with my arms covered but I don't want to explain the appearance of my battered arms and big bandages!

How is everyone else today?

Sorry to post again but i'm angry/upset

Just got off the phone to the nurse and again she was very short, I felt like II couldn't ask half the questions I wanted to.

I asked about the low count and freezing the sperm, and why would it decrease further. She has now said he could be suffering from testicular failure which is why we could end up with no sperm?!! She never even uttered the words "testicular failure" on tuesday!!

So i've said can he not be tested or see a urologist to find out why it is low and whether it is testicular failure or some other factor and her response was "No. It's Impossible to find out!"

What about ultrasounds to look for blockages?? Hormone tests?

I cant believe it. So i'm going to switch to Sheffield and we're going to try go private to get in quicker whilst we move up the NHS list

fatima she sounds like she doesn't know what she's talking about. She can't diagnose testicular failure, she's not a doctor. And has your DH even had any blood tests done to check out his hormones, for example testosterone? Also, your DH did two samples very close together so I would expect him to be asked to do another one in a month's time. Can you speak to your GP and explain how crap she's been and ask to change hospitals and also for you DH to be examined by a urologist? I really would be tempted to complain about the way she has treated you, at least she could be nice and kind and sympathetic. Is that too much to ask for? Sorry, I'm feeling a bit on your behalf but please don't worry about this silly nurse. You can change hospitals and it seems like Sheffield are going to treat you much better. Will you go private to try ICSI?

Fatima I think this woman is totally out of line! It is ridiculous and I would change for definite and seriously consider lodging a complaint. I am also surprised, because while I can sort of understand that GPs are rubbish, everyone at our fertility clinic has been lovely, because they are used to dealing with emotions and stress. Although I have to say, you cope better with this situation, than I could. Well done! Also, I would follow mrsd's advice on what to do about your poor OH to investigate things, this must be very hard for both of you!!

En mrsd what a horrible experience! I totally sympathise and I would be scared for bloods after what you have been through. In fact, I hate them already, because I always bruise and that combined with summer and not telling the whole world, was a bit challenging in June (when there were still some warm days - sinks in depressed dreams, while storm batters the office window).

On surprising news, as nothing is going to happen treatmentwise to us for a while, I might actually go with the GP's advice. Not that I believe it will make us conceive sooner, but chilling out and being very busy with other stuff should make life a lot better. (Although when I heard there would be 7 under-ones on a weekend away next spring, I did develop some serious doubts on whether that is something I want to put me and DH through...)

PS With the disappearing long posts - I've taken to copying the whole thing before posting and have not needed to paste is all in again - one of those things...

Mrsd - how horrendous. I would be feeling immensly sorry for myself as well. The stresses and strains of what you both are going through are bad enough so to add allergic reactions in to the mix is jsut too unfair. I must say when I kept getting thrush when we were trying to do the deed, I just felt so sorry for myself becaue it just adds to an already difficult situation. I hope you're ok . You're very brave, would not want to sit there with needles stuck in me.

Fatima - move hospital and don't speak to that nurse again. I'm so just hearing about it. As someone said, she is not a doctor and she can't go around throwing out comments like that so insensitively. She needs to be reported. I mean if she was a nurse on a cancer ward, would she ring someone up and say you're dying, you have no chance of surviving...Yes she probably would by the sounds of it. Anyway my point is - she needs a lot of training in how to be empathetic and to throw ridiculous comments out willy nilly. It sounds like she gets a kick out of it.

Fatima just wanted to add my sympathies and support here. I am sure that the appointment was a horrible horrible experience and that this has been a particularly steep part of what is already a very stressful journey. I think your nurse sounds very cold and cruel and also I totally reject what you have been told.

I know that we aren't medical experts here, but by god, we know a lot about trying to make a baby. I for one have at least 10 books and wouldn't like to see just how many hours I've racked up on the internet. To suggest that your dh could have 'testicular failure' feels like a crime worth locking up for! In ALL that I have read in male factor infertility, there are many things worth looking into to see what might be at play in low counts - and this feels like suggesting the worse case scenario before gently exploring what else might be going on. For goodness sake, I'd like to spend an hour shouting at her!As mrsden and others here have said, two samples in such a short space of time haven't given the time for things to change, with vitamins and lifestyle mods, if these were needed. The change that just 6 weeks made to my dhs sample were quite a lot. I'm not sure if you could get the count up to 'normal' levels (whatever this means) but to write things off this early is not right. There could be structural or hormonal things that might be a factor.

I agree that you have been handling this really well and I hope that you are OK. I think that a change of hospital and a formal complaint would be the tack that I would take myself. Before any of us going injecting ourselves and putting our eggs in dishes, I feel all avenues should be explored. Even if they aren't available on the NHS, then private options should be discussed, with compassion and sensitivity. If you can't have a soothing and friendly bedside manner in a position where you are going to be talking to worried people all day, potentially discussing very upsetting news, you don't deserve the job. I feel like writing to her myself!

Sorry for the rant, but this really winds me up. Infertility feels like such a taboo, there is bugger all support and it is such a devastating thing. Thank god for here, I don't know who I'd turn to otherwise. I like the idea of a group book! When I first felt we were struggling, I thought there would be masses of local help - but there's nothing really.

mrsden sorry about the horrid blood test and the bleeding. They are monitoring you so well though, so that must be a bit comforting?

Have lost track a little of where everyone else is up to..

popcorn I tend to get 4-5 days of ewcm before ovulation starting anywhere from cd8-11. I think it needs to be there before, or something. I have been trying Very Hard for 10 cycles now (this is 10th) and played a lot of russian roulette without understanding the inner workings of my womb and uterus for about 6 months before that. But I thought you ovd the day your temp went up, so the days I'd thought we were being daring, we probably weren't. Or so I like to think. My temps are totally erratic this month. With some tinkering on Fertility Friend, using ewcm and opks as guides I have hypothesised ovulation at cd19. My acupuncturist would no doubt be horrified! Ah well, by the looks of things this is just a dud cycle. I'm frustrated but also glad no to be tww symptom spotting. I have no sore boobs, in fact they have deflated somewhat. I feel hormonally devoid. Pah.

A close friend started saying earlier this month that she wants to start trying and would I want to know if she got pregnant before the scan (she doesn't know I'm trying, in fact I told her that day that I didn't think I wanted any to ultra hide it). So today I read her status on Facebook and it said. Feeling exhausted, don't know why....that is all it said and I have already had a rant to dh that I think she's pregnant. I think I have become a bad wife.

Love to everyone else x

Also - am going to change my name as it isn't very cunning and if I have friends who are trying then I'd hate to be recognised. Will go and do that now.

Here I am! All new and wine hungry. I really miss not feeling guilty about drinking. So long peaceport.

Fatima I am appalled by the manner in which that nurse has treated you and your DH. I am also not impressed that the NHS think that it is okay to have a nurse discuss such important issues with you. In my mind the Consultant or at least a Registrar should have had this discussion with you. As for bluntly telling you that you will never have children naturally with no preamble or gentle words I am frankly disgusted. It just sums up to me the general feeling held by numerous NHS professionals that infertility/fertility issues is no big deal. How dare this nurse try to then get you off the phone with short shrift. Perhaps if she had done her job better in the first place you wouldn't have felt the need to telephone her back.
I also cannot believe that there is no way to test why your DH has this problem with his sperm count.
If I were you I would be inclined to see my GP and explain how upset and disappointed you are with the treatment you have received and see what he suggests about complaining. I would also ask my GP whether it would be worth e-mailing the consultant who runs the clinic to let him know how you have been treated and what was said and to address your questions to him rather than this nurse.
I'm so sorry Fatima that you are being treated so shabbily. You do not need this on top of the shock you and your DH must have got. I am thinking of you.

Mrsd It's weird that your arms reacted so badly. Did they put any surgical tape on your arm at all? I am allergic to that and it makes my arm swell and itch and kind of go stiff. I hope that the discomfort has subsided. Perhaps next time you ought to tell them you don't want that antiseptic spray just in case.

I like your new name Whereismywine Do you think your friend is doing FB hinting with her status. She must know that exhaustion is a classic preggo sign. Maybe she wants people to speculate & tell her that she must be updiffed - afterall when you first start out TTC it seems all very exciting doesn't it.

Nelly Your progesterone levels sound really nice and high. Great news!
Waves to everyone else.

Just lost a long message. Will try later, but the gist was Fatima, are you going to freeze sperm anyway? Fingers crossed you dont need it, but if it's on offer, it's probably a nice insurance policy to have.

You can then throw it away in a few years time, when you have a complete brood, and tell the nurse "I told you so"

Will try to remember the rest of my witty post later

Hello all,
just popping in to infest you all with my germs I came down with a really horrible chest infection yeasterday, and my temperature is sky high, I'm glad Ive been resulutely not symptom checking this month as I guess a bad infection and high temps would mess everything up anyway and stop eggs sticking? I'm on CD 24.

Fatima I am on your behalf at the terrible attitude of the nurse you have seen and totally think you would be doing the right thing by switching if you can, I am sorry to hear that your husbands count has not improved, hopefully when you get to see someone who is not an ignorant arse like the first nurse you can look at what can be done and find the cause.

Like the new name whereismywine

Mrsden sorry to hear about your blood test trauma, sounds horrible! I guess you could tell your friend they were checking your iron levels or something and then you had a bad reaction to the spray! I had my day 21 blood test today, (at day 24 to account for my 31 day cycle) they said my lurgy wouldnt effect the count so I hope so. As is standard for our little village, I knew the nurse doing my bloods, she was in my year at school It was fine and not awkward though as she just said doctor x has requested you have this blood test, do you need bloods for anything else? and that was it, I didnt have to go into the ttc stuff at all.
well best get off and try and force a slice of dry toast down to take my antibiotics, I have a long journey tommorow as we are going to stay with family for a week, am really looking forward to it but wish I didnt feel so terrible! catch up with you all next week when we are back

Fatima I am very late to this party but just wanted to say I agree totally with what everyone else has said and I'm very sorry, and angry, that you have been treated so shabbily. I hope you are ok. It is terrifying to think there is someone in that position giving out medical opinions which are clearly wrong and they should not be in a position to give. Where the hell was the consultant in all this? Unbelievable.

If it was me I would certainly want to leave that clinic-I wouldn't feel that I could trust them. But I agree that it would be good to get in touch with the consultant and make them aware of what's happened because surely this cannot be right? This woman sounds like she is on some kind of weird power trip.

mrsd ack for the blood tests, you poor thing, hope your arms are healing.

We are drowning in appointments, tests, doctors (and psycho nurses) aren't we? I phoned the gp for my day 21 blood test result today, receptionist was totally baffled but eventually managed to read out "overlated this cycle" which I took to mean ovulated and therefore normal, didn't get a number or anything. I swear to god I am the first person ever to go to my gp with a fertility issue, it all seems totally beyond them. Not surprising considering the anount of buggies in my neighborhood...Probably a good thing I have now been referred on.
wine I love, love, love your new name! I think your friend is definitely doing some Facebook fishing for people to think she's pg. God I nearly wrote "I hope she isn't" then but just stopped myself! This is the person I've become since ttc, aaargh!

skeleton x post! I am very sorry to hear you are poorly and hope you feel better soon.

Hope you're ok Fatima.

skeleton - sorry you're ill. I don't know whether I have made this up but I thought it was easier to get pregnant when sick. Your body is too busy fighting off bugs to notice the other intruder implanting. I have no idea where I have got this from- has anyone else heard this?

popcorn - Why don't they give numbers out? Why is nothing straight forward..? Anyway I an glad you ovulated that is good!

wine - your friend is definitely fishing... because of the person I have turned in to I would probably have de-friended her by now . I cannot bear transparent cryptic messages ...stop attention seeking and post what you really think- "I'm exhausted, ooh I wonder if I'm pregnant " or "I'm exhausted" which is a lot more subtle. Apologies if your friend was actually exhausted and genuinely didn't know!!

Hello to everyone else!!

Morning all,

Sorry you're poorly skeleton. Here's hoping that the antibiotics work quickly so you can enjoy your visit with your family :)

joycep and popcorn my gp didn't give any numbers either, she just read through the list of what they tested for and told me that it was normal. I figure we'll probably look at them in more detail when I go to the fertility clinic. Keeping my fingers crossed for a cancellation appointment so that we don't have to wait the full 12 weeks.

mrsden I agree with skeleton that you should come up with an alternative test that they needed to do to explain away your bruises. Or is giving blood fairly common where you are? It would be a shame to have to cover up your arms in the summer heat (wouldn't be a problem in rainy miserable Scotland I might add!)

Expecting AF symptoms to arrive today or tomorrow. Headache is just starting so probably later today. Gave up a few days ago on this cycle anyway with all of the pre-AF bleeding/spotting so not as gutted as usual. Onwards and upwards to cycle 14!

How are you doing today Fatima

Skeleton I'm sorry that you feel so poorly. I hope that you feel well enough to enjoy your trip away. Sits way too close to you in stalker type way and takes a big drink out of your glass on the off chance that Joycep is right about it being easier to conceive when your body is fighting off a bug (which, incidently, does make sense if you think about it. Your body might be less able to reject the egg as a foreign invader) & hopes it's catching

I would be irrationally mortified if I knew the person taking my barren bloods. I'm glad that it was okay for you.

Popcorn Good news on the ovulation. "Overlated" made me chuckle. So does this lady think that she overlates every month - the mind boggles.

Joycep I would have to agree that I would've defriended anyone fishing with cryptic pregnant statuses. FB is so not the place to symptom spot. She should start a thread on here of the type that we all love so much about being 2dpo and convinced she's pregnant and then she can test at 7dpo and get a BFP and then be all shocked at how it is the second month of trying and she hadn't expected it to take so long. Me horrible & jealous, much

Have your temps gone up yet? I really wish I'd temped this month because I am still a bit confused about such early EWCM. There's not that much of it to make me absolutely sure that it is ovulation time. I hate constantly having to analyse everything, it's exhausting. I guess the answer to this dilemma is to SWI right the way through but I really can't be arsed this month.

My mother is telephoning constantly. I haven't answered for days because I have a horrible feeling she wants to invite herself for a visit this weekend. I am so not up for that but can't think of a good enough excuse. "Sorry you can't come because I may be ovulating and we are shagging" seems slightly inappropriate!

Pout - I have always thought sickness helps implantation hence why I would cosy up to people with colds. And actually many moons ago when i got a bfp, I had had a really bad foot infection and was on antibiotics. Now there is all the scientific evidence you need! I would love to know if i have an over active immune system or if my body was producing too many white blood cells or what ever those ones which kill sperm are called. I have no idea where to get that test done.

Actually my boobs were slightly sore yesterday and today and I wondered whether Dh had manhandled them a bit too much . Anyway My temp did go up this morning (36.07, 36.13, 36.15, 36.33) ...I think I will have to take it for a few more days to confirm if that was ovulation yesterday but I am only on CD13 and my temp has consistently risen around CD16/17 in about 8 cycles i have monitored in the past. This is highly unusual for me but I have had the odd ewcm since Sunday...it always peters out by the time ovulation actually happens...Does that happen for you? I always thought it was suppose to be the most abundant exactly around ovulation. Anyway of course I think far too much about this and so my thoughts are going in to overdrive and thinking that if my LP is only 10 days ... that means I will get AF super early...Or if I?m being positive, perhaps my cycle has re-set itself and I will have a beautiful 28 day cycle with a 14 day LP. Yeah right.

But I know what you mean about how exhausting second guessing is, it has become just far too difficult. Why don't you take your temps over the next few days, it will give you a picture of what is going on...And you can sort of tell from other months whether your temps are high or low. I'm pleased I decided to temp for the last few days. Dh still doesn't know. It's so much cheaper and easier than those opks which are so expensive and they really stress me out, firstly waiting for the positive sign and when I get the positive, I feel the pressure to get down to biz so much I can't enjoy it. TTC is the biggest passion killer isn't it. I am putting a lot of effort in this month - 5days on the trot - I have been fairly slack about it for the last few months.

Sorry for the long old ramble.

Hi everyone,
Just checking in, ive been reading but not posting much. I'm now cd69 and 44 dpo!! Dont feel i have much to post about really!

Hey all... I tried to catch up on the posts but my head got confused... although I giggled because euro did a swear word (childish - moi?)

Fatima I was jumping with rage reading your post - what an idiot that nurse is. Move to Sheffield hospital for definite.

I had my first appointment at the fertility clinic on Weds... not much to tell - they took a urine sample to test for chlamydia and ordered my day 21 and 3 bloods and a HyCoSy, including a general ultrasound. Hmph but good. Only thing is that I am now worried because I don't see them until the HyCoSy (next cycle) but my day 21 blood will probably not tell them anything because I don't normally OV until day 19. Hmph.

Purple Positive steps at your first fertility clinic appointment. I felt a bit flat after my first one (and all of them really). I think that I expected to instantaneously fall pregnant or something!

Hiya Izzy Is anything going to be dome to bring on your AF or are they going to tackle the underlying issue first? Sympathies to you, you must be uber frustrated by this point.

Joycep I can imagine you having to stuff the duvet over your thermometer to muffle the beeps!!!
My EWCM doesn't really follow much of a pattern TBH. Some months are more profuse than others. I suppose that it does kind of peter out. It almost gets thicker & cloudier IFYSWIM though still stretchy before it goes to tacky. This is nice - apologies to everyone else!

I wondered whether my AF will be nice and early this month too. I hope so because my cycle is a bit on the longer side and it would be nice not to have to wait the usual time before ovulating (or not!) again. I am wondering though whether instead I will just have EWCM until my usual ovulation days of CD15/16 or 17. Unlikely I suppose considering I started with it on CD7. I really, really hope that your cycle resets itself and you have a good LP length. Apparently women's cycles can change for no apparent reason throughout their life so here's hoping that yours is going to get back to something you are more relaxed with.

I agree that the pressure to TTC at the "right" time is a passion killer. I almost get into a panicked state that I have to SWI and get a tummy ache and generally am grumpy. I also do not find DP sexy at all when there is the SWI pressure - it's sods law again In fact I really worry that this area of our life will never be the same again. I used to like the old days of quality over quantity now it's like some biological transaction.

Runner it is so good to hear from you. Has it really been that long and you are 20 weeks now?! I'm so glad that you have joined the Grads thread. Poor old Biscuits must have been lonely.

Thanks for clearing up the immunity thing. I was intending on hanging out at the GP surgery and snogging ill looking people - what a relief

Just thought I'd pop in andwve at you all.

I'm still lurking and following you all.

I have to say Fatima everyone else has said but what an obnoxious old cow that nurse sounds like! Everyone has already said so many correct things about what she did and should have done etc so I won't repeat it all but good lord I'd like 10 minutes alone with her (to calmly and rationally explain the upset she might have caused by not thoroughly thinking through her conversation - obviously....) Very on your behalf!

Purple Glad you had a good first appt at the fertility clinic. Pout I know what you mean by feeling a bit flat after the appointments - If only they could instantaneously make you pregnant. I have a theory that I wasn't really flat about the appointment per se but more the fact that I hadn't got an ironic BFP to allow me to cancel the appointment!

Izzy you poor thing. I so thought you were pg at the start of all this. Can they do anything to make AF show up. Honestly, I can't remember the last time I was willing her to turn up .

I have read everything else but can't remember who was doing what now.

Whereismywine - like the new name

Skeleton - hope you feel better soon

Everyone else seems to be in the tangle of blood tests etc - I do hope that some answers are forthcoming for everyone. Runner and I need some company on the grads thread - we can't eat all those cakes ourselves :)

Hi pout, I've got my scan next Thursday and I assume if it confirms pcos then they may do something. Although first Dr I seen wanted us to wait 18 months before doing anything :( x

Hi everyone.

izzy sorry you are still stuck, must be so frustrating. I hope you get some answers soon.

purple glad you are making some progress. I recently changed the date of my day 21 blood test to make it 7 days before af due, as ov happened earlier than I expected. Someone on the thread, sorry I can't remember who, said they thought it was a good idea. If you normally ov on day 19 I don't think you should be having the test on day 21, even my uberclueless gp adjusted the day to make it later when I told him I had a longer cycle. better to sort it now than to have to re-test when the results are unclear.

Im glad it's not just me that doesn't get a clear pattern of ewcm. I definitely get it, but it's patchy and mixed in with more, ummmm, stretchy and cloudy stuff so I'm never too sure what's going on. I tend to start doing opks after a day or two of seeing it, and I temp for few days just to check I get a temp rise. Between all of that I can usually pinpoint when I've ovulated. I've given up temping every day of my cycle though cos i find it a bit much. joycep can't believe you have managed to hide the beeps from your DH, well done!

On the phone so have to make this short (even though its already quite long!) but I was thinking that a lot of us are going through quite hard times at the moment and I reckon that we should all make sure we have a nice treat this weekend as we all deserve it. What do you think? Even if it's just something small like a nice piece of cake (lemon drizzle?) or a hot bath. I think I wlll be having a g&t and a marks and sparks toffee meringue. Yum.

Hello all. I am flopped on the sofa after another bikram watching beaver falls, quality.

Nice to see you biscuits I was wondering how you were. Skeleton hope you feel better very soon, ttc and illness don't go well together.

pout I think the picture in the annoying book (tw) has made me feel inadequate in the ewcm dept since day one!

purple I did my first day21 test on day 21 as I was told and it came out as 32. The next month I did it on day 23 on my gps advice and it was 47. I think this is ok? But no amount of Internet trawling has sorted this for me - gp was happier with it. Maybe it is quite hard to catch the exact peak but I'd def watch your opk and try to work out when 7 days before your af is if you can? Was the apt ok? Did they give you any ideas of timelines or anything? I've got mine on Tuesday. Had I best save up my wee?!

runner I missed out on your story, any chance of a recap so send out waves of optimism?

Well, my temp was up today properly and I had loads of dreams last night which I always get in the two week wait. Have no idea where I'm up to at all really, could be just starting the tww or a fair bit into it. Officially, af should be due next Tuesday, but I don't have sore boobs yet so I don't think so. Will have to try very hard not to wonder if I'm pregnant. In fact, not sure how long I would wait before feeling optimistic! Optimistic wrong word really as that is depleted - don't think I'd be curious til I saw my temp hadnt gone down for 15 days. At least. Meh. izzy it must be so frustrating for you - when I have long cycles every now and then, it does my head in. Hope af puts her appearance in soon. Last time this happened to me, i think my gp talked a out something to bring it on? Can't remember what it was though.

Hope I've not missed anyone out. And Fatima sending love to you, hope you're ok.

Happy Weekend!

popcorn have had large glass of wine!