TTC 6+ months plus, part 2

[skeletonbones]

New thread as the old one was getting to 1000. So, 4 BFP's in the last thread, lets see if we can up the total considerably on this one :)

Pout - I know what you mean. I have never been an internet forum person before (although I don?t classify this as a forum really!) but it just shows how stressful ttc is and the need to be able to speak about what we are going through with people in similar situations. MN is my big secret in my life. I think DH would flip if he ever knew I was chatting away on the internet about all our intimate details . I have to be so careful though and remember to delete my iphone history as he always borrows my phone. Anyway, we can compare notes on Monday as I?m off to speak to my GP about IUI waiting times or whether I can get this done on the NHS. Really I want to know what direction to go in. But I just feel it?s just a long long waiting game whichever way it goes.

Also, this hasn?t made DH and I stronger either. I think that?s commendable MrsD that it has for you guys. I have always heard how stressful it is on couples. I try not to be an emotional burden on DH but sometimes it gets the better of me. I was telling him the other day how I just wanted to crawl in to a hole and never come out and he was like ?oh dear?. I?m not sure what I was after but certainly not that. He doesn't want to discuss it. I want to discuss what happens if it never happens and he gets really cross and says he doesn't want to speak about it. And it?s intersesting Pout that you are getting angry at your DP because he made you wait. These feelings do get the better of you don't they. I don?t have the anger thing , I just feel guilt.

Mrsd - I really hope sth comes of your 2 eggs.

Also just laughed outloud at the 65 barren lady getting pregnant. Talk about making us feel like even more s*.

I feel that ttc has become a bit of an elephant in the room for me and DH. Always feel like we're avoiding talking about it and it always seems to hang over everything, especially when we discuss the future :(

joycep I sometimes feel a bit bad on DH for posting stuff on this thread but if he doesn't want to hear about it I have to moan somewhere!

On phone so can't really check back through posts. But I agree that's it's so helpful to be able to vent on here about it all. I've tried so hard to keep things away from DP. Maybe too much for the first while, as he didn't realise how much my age mattered, therefore how important it was that we tried every month. But I managed to be still a bit vague about how we needed to have more sex. And I try to make sure I initiate it at other times of the month, not just Shag Week. Otherwise it would be rather obvious to him that I just want to have sex for baby-making purposes; when ironically that's not true . I also never say no when he initiates it, (unless of course it's AF time or he's too pissed/hungover and therefore not at all sexy)

I'm not sure if it's changed our relationship yet. To be honest, I've had a very tough six months, that have also affected DP quite a bit. But we acknowledge that it did make us closer as a couple, and whilst we were still TTC during that time, it didn't take up too much of my conscious thought. However now that is past, it will be interesting to see how I personally cope with the increased focus; as well as how we deal with it together. And let's not forget, we are embarking on the medical journey now, so that'll be fun!

And as for the 65 and pregnant threads, well sometimes I like to test how I feel about TTC by reading them. Given the gut churning that goes on when I get to the inevitable "oooh I took a test and guess what, BFP!" then it's safe to say, Yes I do really want to get pregnant.

Hi lovelies. Got back from Malta yesterday so I haven't yet managed to back-read the messages but (this is sad) I kind of missed you all xx

mrsden I'm sorry to say that I failed to find the fertility shrine in Mellieha. We went looking around where you said (didn't tell DH why) but didn't find a local to ask. I did go in the Grotto of Our Lady though which was an incredible place - I went down there a few times which left DH bemused.

Regarding the conversation about DH, I really think it is down to the men to change it. For the first year, it drove a real wedge between DH and I. It was only at the year mark when he suddenly said that we were definitely going to the GP and he suddenly seemed to catch up. I think that because the GP took us seriously DH realised that it was not 'normal' to take more than a year (this was DH's point of view). I think that once he finally got it, everything got better again an our sex life got back on track. joycep I know this probably doesn't help, but it really is down to DH to make things better again.

Morning all!

So we had our appointment and it was no real news, we got most the results as we went along (informally: with the HSG you get to watch the dye go through, nerdy and interesting and you know nothing is terribly wrong when it come out near the ovaries). The conclusion is we are also officially unexplained sub/infertile, like pout and others and I don't know what to make of it. We apparently can get some treatment after another year or so. But it does not help very much :( and at the same time they said that the chance of falling pregnant naturally are around 40%. Which is good apparently, if you are the fertility-clinic stage, but sounds pretty pathetic to us. So we had long, head getting around this talks yesterday. I am trying to spend less energy on TTC because the gyn seemed to think that if indeed nothing is wrong with us we should fall pregnant. And there is little you can do except SWI, which we have been doing for a while now...

Right, plenty of me-me-me. I am trying to avoid the barren 65-year olds who use contraceptives at all costs, but they did make me smile mrsd. Like jocep I am not a forumperson either and it is weird, but comforting! But I am going to try and wean myself off a little, I think... Pout has your OH become slightly less of an idiot overnight? (Ie did he apologise?) Shame you didn't find the shrine purple I was counting on you did you have a good break otherwise? Selling houses is aways emotional, isn't is karbea? I hope it all goes through ok and gives you more time for fun things! Sympathies for elephants of TTC in rooms for popcorn and others... At least we do talk about it, even if it does not change anything :(

Welcome back purple we missed you too . Did you have a great holiday? It doesn't matter about the shrine, thanks for looking. We only found it by chance when some old Maltese guy insisted on taking us to have a look. I wonder if he had some inside knowledge that we were going to have trouble ttc as this was years ago.

loveslemon 40% is quite good really, I know it's tough though but at least there is a real possibility of it happening if you keep on SWI. Have you been put on a waiting list for treatment or do you have to go back in a year if it hasn't happened?

My DH has no idea I post on here, he would flip if he knew. But then he doesn't feel the need to talk about ttc. I have to force him to discuss it really so it does feel like an elephant in the room. I think he does understand now how upset it makes me but I think he feels helpless about it all so tries to make me feel better by being positive. He also doesn't really want to know the details of ivf which annoys me because I want to know everything about the process. I think he thinks it doesn't involve much and is a simple thing. This really annoys me. In fact ivf annoys me because it is all about the woman even when it is needed because of male infertility.

I took my temp this morning and it still low so I don't think I've ovulated yet. Come on two little eggs. I am bored of SWI. This is the part of our relationship that ttc has ruined and I worry that I will never enjoy it again.

Morning lovlies!

Purple, any particular tips for Malta? I am off there soon. I hope you are all happy and relaxed and not suffering from post-holiday blues!

drizzle I am looking forward in a geeky kind of way to having a HSG. Ultrasounds fascinate me too.

mrsd I know what you mean about the burden of IVF falling on the woman. A friend of mine had ICSI because of her husband's low sperm count. This was after she had had two ops to remove endo and the drs said that she should then be able to conceive naturally! Come on eggs!

Morning everyone,
sorry to hear you are finding that TTC is making arguments with you and your dh Joycep I have had a fair few horrible arguments with my dh over the last few months, usually when I get my period and am sat crying angrily going 'WTF is wrong with us??? there must be something wrong! why is it so pissing easy for other people!?!' ect and then he cries too or shouts back and we end up fuming in seperate rooms.
I think that for some blokes having trouble making a baby is a real brush under the carpet subject as for some bizare reason male infertility is something that has a 'jokey' connotation that a bloke might get ribbed by his mates for or thought of as less virile?! and maybe some men dont want to talk about it, go for the tests ect incase the problem is a male factor and people find out and are insensitive? I've heard a fair few blokes making cracks about male fertility in the pub over the years but although women have to put up with hugely insensitive comments about babies and tyring for them I've never heard anyone actually joke about a woman having IVF or what have you.

Euro and others that were pondering sexual chemistry, I personally dont think it makes a difference unless the couple in question have so little chemistry that its effecting the actual amount of shagging, for example they are only managing it once a month or whatever.

I base my opinion on having absolutely no chemistry with my childrens father and never did do, even as the teenager I was when I got pregnant with them, when you would have thought it would have been all hormones all over the place and knickers flying He was a friend of my friends then boyfriend and me, her and another girl and boy used to get the bus to the bright lights of the next village to hang about with them as a group, and me and ex sort of paired off as the spare ones really! and I never really fancied him, which makes me sound like a bit of a feckless tart, but since I am telling you all this to back up an actual scientific theory we have made up hypothesised I feel that this negates the trampy aspect of this tale and he has told me in recent years that he didnt fancy or have feelings for me either (and the fact that I found out after the relationship finished that he'd been having it off with a girl from work for much of the time we were together, I feel confirms this, probably a good job I didn't fancy him much otherwise I would have been a bit more upset with this revelation )
where as my dh and I have much better chemistry but no luck in the fertilising.

I think what you say mrsden and Euro about the burden of IVF falling on the woman is so true, I am really worried about the IVF side effects if we do have to go down that route, as I know both male and female issues both lead to IVF in the end, and selfishly I am more worried about having IVF for male factor than if its me who has problems as I feel I would be interfereing with my bodies hormonal state and coping with side effects when there is nothing to fix with me, where as if it was for female issues, I would already be having hormone inbalance problems anyway so it would feel more sensible to be 'fixing' it with IVF?! then I feel a mean cow for thinking this as I should be seeing it as our issue to deal with as a couple rather than looking at the individual components.

ooh and welcome back purple and hope you had a nice holiday, I think that since you were in the same country as the shrine thats almost the same as finding it , so some of the luck surely must have rubbed off for you.

I was also Impressed by your babysitting skills Thatway when you do get your BFP you can bask in the knowledge that you are already a supernanny type figure so are well prepared for the toddler years

Skelly that's interesting about the chemistry in your relationship with your ex and your husband.

I think a few clinics offer something called natural IVF where the woman is ovulating fine. It's less successful than fully medicated cycles though.

www.hfea.gov.uk/natural-cycle-ivf.html

I was looking up natural IVF last night funnily enough Euro. as I think it has been mentioned on here before and I thought it might be the better option for us if we need it with my worries about the drug treatment, I have basically discounted it though for us though I think after looking it up. Like you say the success rate is so much lower than 'ordinary' IVF I think its 7-10% v's 30-40?% which means that most people probably have to do more rounds of natural IVF before achieving pregnancy compared to an ordinary IVF patient which will then rack up the expense and mean more general anesthetics too, plus there wont be the option to donate eggs and reduce treatment fees that way. Me and DH have been talking and decided that if it is a male factor we would maybe have 1 go at an IVF cycle with ICSI if we can and me donating half the eggs and see how bad the side effects were and then decide whether to continue or think about donor sperm.

Since I am now approching the 2ww I have decided that instead of symptom spotting and getting crashingly disapointed as I have for the last 9 months I'm going to try a new approach, I call it the 'skeletonbones no-spot mantra intervention plan' everytime I consider proding my boobs, or attributing nausea, cramps, irritablity or maternal feelings towards kittens as a divine signal of upduffedness I will repeat the following: 'Every symptom of pregnancy can also be a symptom of an arriving period, some people are pregnant with no symptoms, some people have every symptom and are not pregnant, only time and and POAS will tell, so STOP THIS NOOOWWW!' hopefully I can just repeat this in my head and not out loud but after Joycep's tales of talking to her boobs in the work loos (it was you wasnt it Joycep?!) maybe it will morph into me shouting it out loud and proud wherever I go

One of the main worries I have about ivf also is that no one really seems to know yet what the long term effects are. But if that's what it takes to have a baby then I'm prepared to do it. A life without children is really not something I want to think about yet.

Re. symptoms skeleton I like your plan, I hope it works . One of (my many) pregnant friends was telling me the other day that she knew she was pregnant from 9dpo because she felt starving hungry all the time and also dizzy and tired. She said that she knew without a doubt that she was pregnant because she felt so odd. So that got me thinking that really if there are good symptoms then we shouldn't have to go out of our way and prod boobs and the like to notice them.

This autumn and winter is going to be full of birth announcements for me because everyone I know is pregnant but I've worked out that I only know about 3 other people who are potentials to announce pregnancies now so hopefully there shouldn't be too many of them. I think pregnancy ones are worse than birth ones. I'm worried that before I even get pregnant these people will be announcing their second pregnancy. I don't know why I concern myself with other people, it's so pointless and has no bearing on my fertility but I do it anyway and make myself feel all jealous.

joycep and pout how are you both? I hope you're feeling a bit brighter. I think next week is going to be my slide into low thoughts as I realise that it's another month with nothing to show for all that SWI.

Oh mrsden the second babies are hitting us now (and even a third on bloody miserable facebook the other day!). It is pretty hard to take sometimes.

On the symptom discussion, I read a thread the other day because I like to make myself feel rotten about a woman who was convinced at 2dpo that she could tell that she was pregnant . Now, my take on this, is that I have been convinced on several occasions that I was pregnant when I blatantly was not. If this woman does turn out to be pregnant, she will go around telling everyone that she was able to tell immediately that that egg had been fertilised, even though she might have had all the same phantom symptoms if not pregnant IYSWIM. Can you tell that I am now into the 2ww and over analysing everything yet again?????

Have my usual sore boobs post ov and a sore back (but from pilates class I'm sure) and am already being grouchy (both mother and dh have been distinctly unimpressed with my tendency to fly off the handle overreact to what are otherwise very simple things

I don't think you CAN have symptoms until about 7days as up until then the egg is just floating about, in the same way lots of other cells are.

House fell through so we are living at my pil until further notice, and nothing for sale in our price range :(

Definitely going to subscribe to the skeletonbones no-spot mantra intervention plan - it sounds like a winner!

euro you will have a fab time - definitely try to get to Marssaxlokk for some seafood with a view of all the fishing boats in port. Where are you staying?

I don't reckon this sexual chemistry will come to much - the last few months I have been madly horny for DH (which is a relief because the few months for that I wasn'y horny for anything - not even Sean Bean)... in fact I fancy the pants off him, but there's no BFP here.

Feeling very positive this month - have been flossing my teeth, have given up drinking a bit and have even (this is the big one) joined a gym. My body is a temple! Sort of.

Sorry to hear about the house Karbea Ours is up for sale at the moment & although no offers yet, I don't know where we'd go if we sold it...

Loving the sound of the mantra Looby, I'm going to try to follow your lead too. Not sure I've quite got your discipline though Purple, blimey!

sorry to hear about the house falling through karbea moving house is such a nightmare.

I'm loving your positivity purple.

My positivity has ran out. I'm on CD22. I've been temping for 7 cycles, the latest I've ever seen a temp rise is CD20 and out of the 7 I've had one cycle where I don't think I ovulated. I took my temp this morning and it was still low so I wasn't surprised when I had my scan this morning and the two eggs were still sat there staring me out on the big screen. My gynae looked a bit confused and said she would have to see what was going to happen and whether I would ovulate or not this cycle. She then started trying to reassure me that it was normal to have a cycle every now and then where ovulation doesn't happen. But then she looked at my uterus and said that there were changes in my lining and something about a triple stripe so maybe ovulation was about to happen . Anyway I have to go back on Monday for yet another ultrasound, I have no inhibitions now. I start undressing before she's even closed the door, it's straight in there, undress bottom half and lay on the bed waiting for the probe with the condom on. Oh, where has my dignity gone? Her advice was to keep SWI until I see her again on Monday, easier said than done when you've been doing that for 7 days already. Honestly, I thought I was going to burst into tears when she said that. I'm fed up with it all and feel like crawling under a rock.

But enough about me. How is everyone else today? Are there any positive stories out there? No BFPs?

I'm glad that you enjoyed your holiday Purple & welcome back! I hate flossing but now it's not such a chore knowing that it may help with conceiving.

I'm sorry that your house sale has fallen through Karbea. It must be awful having all your stuff packed away and living somewhere else. I hope that you find somewhere else soon.

Loveslemon I'm sorry that you've got the unexplained infertility diagnosis too - welcome to limbo land! I hadn't heard the 40% statistic thing before. I wonder sometimes how they arrive at these figures.

Madness I don't believe that you can have symptoms until after implantation either. I think that when people get a BFP they just look back on everything they felt in the run up to it and attribute it to being pregnant. I expect that a lot of the "classic" symptoms probably aren't pregnancy symptoms at all which is probably part of the reason TTC'ers can get so many phantom symptoms. Talking of phantom symptoms I have a metallic taste in my mouth. If this were the 2ww I would be getting all excited - just goes to show that many of these feelings are a crock! Skeleton I like your mantra idea but I need an abridged version!

Mrsd Have you had any sign yet that your eggs have popped? I know what you mean about expecting to feel down after ovulation. I worry now about how depressed I'm going to feel when AF comes. I know that worrying about worrying is a ridiculous way to be.

Skeleton I sympathise with the fuming in separate rooms thing. Well I fume in the bedroom and DP sits downstairs merrily ignoring it which of course just makes me more angry!

Joycep it sounds like you and your DH are in a similar place to me and my DP. I said to DP the other day how I felt like I didn't want to exist any more (I was having a particularly bad day with AF arrival and another house viewing falling through and bloody estate agents not bothering to get back to us for the umpteenth time) and I just got the equivalent "oh dear" response too. It's not that he is a horrible, unloving person at all or that our relationship is hanging on by a thread it's just that he can't seem to support me through this. I don't know why. Maybe he feels as helpless as I do and carrying on regardless and almost ignoring it is his way. I'm sorry though Joycep that you were so upset and felt like that the other day. Sometimes I wish that this wasn't a virtual thread with us all probably in far flung places. Sometimes I could just do with having a coffee spring water and a chat with somebody who understands. Maybe then at least DP's eardrums would get a rest

Hope that everyone else if okay today.

x-post Mrsd So your eggs are playing shy this month? How annoying. Have you got to SWI everyday until Monday?? I can understand why you wanted to cry. It's so frustrating. What CD will you be on Monday?

at stripping before the door closes. Dignity is definitely a thing of the past. I used to be type of person that used to mumble certain words (think the mother off Miranda) but now I just don't care.

think I x-posted with you pout. I said to DH last night that I felt like giving up and didn't see the point of anything in life anymore. I think I was being a bit over dramatic but it is how I felt and DH responded with "stop being silly, now go to sleep". I hate it when he dismisses my feelings like he thinks I'm not being serious. I mean I'm not being totally serious and I can be a bit over dramatic but I just want him to acknowledge how wretched I feel about it all. Anyway, it sounds like our men are all the same. I really don't think it's because they don't care but I just don't think they feel it in the same way. Like, I know my DH wants children but I don't think he'd be devastated if it never happens. I think he can imagine life without children which I really can't.

whoops x-posted again! It's funny how my reaction to a middle aged woman in a white coat telling me to keep on SWI is to want to cry rather than to burst into embarrassed giggles. Life has changed so much!

I could have written your last post Mrsd. I think that sometimes maybe I overstate things (though some days I do just want to switch off for a bit and not be here for a little while) and I go up the dramatic route because I want my DP to understand how painful this is. I often say to him that I wish he could feel a fraction of the feelings I have each cycle.

Like your DH I don't think that mine would be devastated if we couldn't have a child. He would be as happy without children. For me I would feel that my life had been pointless & that there was something huge missing from it. On a stupid note I watched Goodbye Mr Chips at the weekend and he lost his wife and child in childbirth and there was this scene where he was on his deathbed & people were saying how much he loved his wife and wasn't it a shame that they had never had children. I got choked up and thought how I hope that people never say that about me and my DP. God I'm a saddo and probably watch too much TV.

It is awful that the thought of more SWI makes us want to cry. There's nothing like making our other halves feel good is there

I'm probably not hiding that well the fact that I'm not into SWI at the moment so even my non-observant DH has probably picked up on it. But how can you enjoy something you've been ordered to do?

I hope, hope, hope that I see a temp rise tomorrow. I am going to be so upset it I don't ovulate at all. I'll be thinking of those two eggs going to waste. But surely it is unlikely that I will ovulate this late in the cycle? I read somewhere that the later you ovulate the less good quality the eggs are. But I don't understand it because the two eggs are there and the follicles have grown to the right size and my uterus is doing something. Why is it not enough for DH to have such crap swimmers and hardly any of them but that I also have to have ovulation problems? It's not fair. I feel like a child wanting to stamp my feet and scream and throw myself on the floor. If the scan shows on Monday that I haven't ovulated then honestly I think I'll be ready to accept defeat and realise that ICSI is the only way we'll ever have children.

sorry about the house Karbea, moving is so bloody stressfull, I've never known anyone have the mythical completion in 8 weeks than then move in scenario it always seems to end up either having the house sold and staying with relatives, or not being able to sell the first house and losing the second or something else annoying. Hope that something comes up in the right price range for you soon.

Also sorry to hear that you are both feeling down Mrsden and Pout It seems to be we all go through phases with TTC on here of feeling positive about it or depressed and down about it?, sometimes I'm very positive and feel I have found the thing that will fix it 'oh it MUST be not knowing my cycle, I'll get a clear blue monitor' or you know, the whole debarkle with the magic egg and sometimes I find it all totally despiriting and start to feel it will never happen and I am chasing a hopless dream. The egg thing sounds so annoying as well Mrsden I hope they get themselves into gear and descend for you soon!

as for positive stories, I try and hang onto the stat that 95% of people get pregnant within two years, since we have been doing this thread which is only two or three months is it there have been 6 BFP's and the last two ladies had been trying for around 18 months. Then looking at the 5% of people who do not concieve naturally there then is fertility treatment, IVF has a 40% success rate and looking at the IVF threads there seems to be a good ammount of BFP's on there, so statistically speaking there is only a very small percentage of people who cannot concieve either naturally and then have no success with fertility treatment, many of these couples may then go on to adopt, which although is not an option everyone wants to consider, is a possiblity for some, I know three families just in the little village I live in who have adopted, for all of them if I hadnt known then when they were adopting, and just met then a couple of years later I would not have realised that they were not the birth parents of the child(ren), the little girl in one of the famlies is the spitting image of her mum even though they are not genetically related I guess this is due to her picking up the same manerisms, facial expressions from her mum?

So I guess what I'm probably saying is although it feels awfull at the moment,all of us are on the journey that will lead to children by some means, hopefully lots of us will get a BFP naturally,but if not there are other ways to get there? Hope I've not pissed anyone off with that little essay, as I know some people dont want to think about fertility treatment/adoption ect and like to concentrate on it happening naturally, but as one of natures pesimists I always try and look at the long term rather than focussing on the bit of the problem that is getting me down so as I can try and turn my pesimism into rationalising the problem and finding the solution IYSWIM?!

I'm sorry that everyone is feeling so down. I think that was a good effort to try to cheer everyone up, skelly. 95% is pretty near certain, you're right that the odds are good and of course there are other options.

karbea sorry to hear about the house. Living with PIL can't make swi particularly easy!

mrsd I an thinking of starting a 6months plusers cheerleading team for your eggs to coax them out. Is anyone in? Just give a little cheer or pompom waggle to the eggs in your post if you are.