TTC 6+ months plus, part 2

[skeletonbones]

New thread as the old one was getting to 1000. So, 4 BFP's in the last thread, lets see if we can up the total considerably on this one :)

Happy Sunday campers. Ive just been catching up on posts, so thought Id drop in some thoughts. I'm on cd13 and suspect ovulation may be imminent but trying not to think about it, because I'm still in a mood with ttc.

Time- I'm afraid that I don't know anyone else in the 6-12 month bracket either, except friends of friends etc. All family and friends were preggers in three months or less. Pah. The tcoyf book also made me feel very worried popcorn I have NO expectation that this month might be the one. We now have a plan. After the apt in August, we will see what is suggested but, I want to stay natural til Xmas, then, perhaps if clomid is suggested, give it a go in the new year. If nothing next Easter, IUI if that is suggested ( or worth it?) and then I think I'd give ivf a try next summer. Am resigned to paying and trying to clear off existing credit card bills so that there is some borrowing capacity. But only really enough for one go, so will have to save up again after that. Or remortgage? I think dh is slightly depressed by my anal 'plan'. But then, he's optimistic every month - is this a common thing with all of your respective other halves? But I'm taking the plan as given now. Was so horribly depressed with past af, don't want to raise my hopes even a centimetre any more. We know there is a sperm issue and my periods are strange, so I'm not going to tease myself anymore. But will try to stay relatively healthy, but also with other things to try and keep me occupied. I'm also just trying to let my body do it's things, rather than scrutinising it all the while. Poor uterus/cervix/hormones - I've been on at them for months and months.

Kate and William - I will be so ANNOYED at this news! Irrational and silly, but true. I've even warned dh! Don't even get me started on the beckhams. But 5 c sections - that can't be good?

Spotting. This is my big worry. But - loads of people have this. My friend had 3-4 days every month and got pregnant easily and my mum said she always had a few days of it. I wonder if I notice it now, whereas in the olden days with black knickers and no obsessive wipe checking, I had it and didn't even know?! It is a bummer though that implantation bleeding exists.

Tests. It infuriates me that testing thoroughly doesn't seem to happen here until you've a few failed ivfs in the bag. At that emotional and financial cost, wouldn't it be better to do the whole lot before?

I'm hoping this thread doesn't feel too gloomy, I'm actually feeling relatively positive at the moment. Have not googled anything at all!

Also - found some condoms in my drawer today. They seemed like an odd, ancient artefact from a previous life. I wonder if we'll ever use one again?!

Ps - sorry af got you Karbea. I also get a right grump on a week before my period comes - I thought I was alone in this! Then I'm ok, just rather weepy on cd 1. Hope you're ok.

sorry AF got you karbea. I've long since given up thinking diet plays much of a part. I'm even back eating peas now . I mean obviously it's good to eat healthily but if it was such a factor then how do those people on jeremy kyle manage it?

peaceport your plan sounds similar to mine, which I've been formulating in my head all weekend. My DH is the same. Even though he's seen his results, spoke to the urologist, spoke with the gynae, seen the scan of my polycystic ovaries etc he still thinks it is going to happen. The gynae told us that I was likely to ovulate on Mon or Tues after seeing the size of the follicle on Thurs so she said that we must SWI this weekend but I am finding it hard to do it because I feel like it's pointless. I know this is the wrong attitude but I can't help it. DH however is so positive that it sort of annoys me, I feel like screaming sometimes. But I suppose it's better to have one positive and one negative person! And I know it's only because he thinks that it's better to have hope. But actually I think it's better to be realistic. We've looked at our finances and worked out that we should have saved enough by April to have ICSI so I am going to see if the gynae will do a couple of rounds of IUI over the autumn. I know it's very unlikely to work but I feel like I have to give it a try and seeing as we can't afford to start IVF straight away at least it will feel like we're doing something.

And maybe DH will be proved right and it will just happen in the meantime

I have been googling pcos. I know my ovaries had lots of cysts and my LH was higher that FSh or whatever it is but I really don't have any other symptoms and I had been confident that I was ovulating. But now I'm worrying that maybe I don't because those cysts must be there from cycles where I didn't release an egg and it became a cyst. I thought I ovulated because my cycles are not really long, my periods are not light or not overly long (5 days), I get ewcm at the right time, and I get a temp rise. So it's going to be interesting to see what the scan on Tues and then the progesterone test shows up. If it shows I don't ovulate then it will show that I know nothing about my own body after all and all those months of temping were a complete waste of time.

Karbea sorry about AF. Pine bark was mentioned by Peaceport earlier in the thread, it is proven to increase sperm morphology. It is a natural anti-oxidant.

My DH is also much more positive than me. He was at it today, we were discussing the possibility of giving up booze for 6 weeks in September and he was saying that hopefully we wouldn't need to bother! Im sure it's good that he is more optimistic than me but I can't share it, I just don't see why this cycle or the next cycle would be any different to all the previous failures.

I am also in a massive mood with ttc. Last month I was weepy but this one I just feel totally f*** off with it all. I would like to take a break from it but i don't think that would be possible or helpful at the moment, given I've just started all the testing. Need to find out if there is a problem first and its not like I'm in my 20s with plenty of fertile years left, aargh.

mrsd and peaceport I like your plans and I think it's a really good idea to have one in place.

Hi to everyone else xx

Hi all. As expected AF came yesterday.

It's interesting reading through people's plans as I has a brief discussion with DH last night. I am going to speak with my GP to find out about IuI on the nhs. does anyone know when this gets offered? But the basic plan is ivf next summer if nothing has happened. The cost is a huge worry but am going to try to save.

Thanks for posting All those tests Euro . I wish I knew where to get all those sorts of things. Like everyone else, people I know have taken max 5 months to get pregnant. My BiL who is a doctor was saying to me after 6 months of trying that there must be sth wrong. I really didn't find that comforting and thought that was slightly misleading. And agree about tcoyf where it said go and see a doctor at 4-6months. Well you can't in this country, they would laugh you out the door.

Pout - am pleased about your friend. Nothing makes me happier to hear about people getting pregnant after years of trying.
Mrsd - I feel sorry for your colleague as I think she should be getting tests done. Being told it takes 3 yrs is very misleading.

Sorry AF came Karbea. I an glad your acu is doing sth though.

Karbea I'm sorry that AF got you. That's rubbish.

Peace I agree that I feel grumpy and terrible about a week before my AF when the reality hits that I have little or no preggo symptoms and I'm unlikely to be updiffed. I then get all tearful for the first couple of days of AF. I feel sorry for DP & wonder why he bothers coming home sometimes!

I like your plan. I think that it's good to have a worse case scenario plan. It's another way to be in control rather than a pessimistic thing.

Mrsden My DP is stupidly optimistic and it annoys me too. He is always saying that it will happen which just gets me uptight because this is based on nothing concrete. He hasn't done any research & I see it as him just patting my head and saying "there, there".

I know exactly what you mean about the PCOS thing and wondering whether all those times you think you've ovulated whether you have. I did ask the gynae that same thing and asked about when you see the EWCM whether that's a guarantee that ovulation has/will happen. She said that it means that it will because a chain of events have started that can't be reversed . However I'm not convinced because like you I wonder where & when those cysts came about.

Your poor friend. 3 years doesn't sound right to me. Thing is when a doctor tells you something you are inclined to blindly believe it.

Popcorn Like you I would like ideally to have a break from TTC but feel that I don't have the luxury of time. Each egg is precious!!

Joycep I'm sorry that AF got you too. I'm STILL waiting for mine. I am getting the start of cramps and am getting really grumpy and frustrated by the delay. I feel like it's still toying with me & still trying to dangle the carrot of hope.

I wish more testing was done on the NHS too. I think the current tests are like doing a basic MOT and just touch the surface. TBH it makes me think that they may as well not bother as doing just a few tests and getting no answers is a waste of money. To me they would be as well to do it all or none at all. I realise money is an issue but I wonder why the NHS can't offer subsidised testing and treatment that is means tested. We have cost the NHS a bomb and are no further forward.

On a lighter note I watched Juno last night. I have wanted to see it for ages but felt that it would be too depressing & thought that I would borrow the DVD off my sister when I got a BFP. Anyway I managed to watch it without blubbing - progress indeed! The only thing that nearly got me was one line when the father says to Juno when she's in hospital having had the baby how she will back there someday but on her terms. It just made me realise that this TTC lark is so not on my terms

Yes I agree POut - the tests are so basic and I'm sure it flags up problems with many people but I don't understand why people aren't sent for more tests after a certain time. If everything is seemingly normal with a couple - then there must be other tests . Out of interest what exactly have you had done on the nhs. I know you've had some scans and an hsg but is this all that they#ve done? Have they ever suggested anything else to you and how many appointments did you have before they basically signed you off? I'm just asking as I was going to go back to my GP to discuss things. But i've had scans on the nhs and it showed nothing. Blood tests normal so not sure what else they will offer.
sorry you 're still waiting for AF. God i wish you get a bfp. I just find I want AF to just come these days. As much as I knew it was coming, it still didn't stop me having those thoughts in the back of my mind...jsut that ounce of wondering although I just knew nothing had happened. Very teary today. Hope everyone else is ok.

pout and joycep, that's exactly what I feel - the tests offered as standard here really do just scratch the surface and basically if you are ovulating and your OH's swimmers are ok, you end up in the "unexplained fertility" box. And while I accept that we don't yet know everything there is to know about conception and so there is such a thing as unexplained fertility, I think in a lot of cases it could be explained and treated if more testing were readily available.

Following my NHS lost appointment x2 debacle I am going to start looking for a private gynae/fertility consultant this week, and I want to find one who will test for the immune stuff as well as do the standard scans and things.

the thing I've come to realise is that there isn't really any desire by medical or research people to look into the causes for infertility or new treatments because they want you to go for the very expensive (and profitable) ivf route. IVF does seem to provide a bypass for most of the problems but I can't help thinking that there would be much simpler and cheaper options if more research was done to investigate causes for infertility rather than saying you have unexplained (ie the basic tests we do can't pick anything up) so go and have ivf.

I don't know if it's because they have found the problems with us but we haven't really had anything on top of what the nhs offers so I don't think this is just an nhs problem. Both the urologist and gynae are saying go for ICSI, but at least the gynae seems willing to offer IUI but only because I think she understands that we need to feel that we've tried everything before ivf. She did explain that IUI wasn't really suitable for us because of the sperm problem but that it was worth a go if it made us feel like we were doing something and then can turn to ivf and say that we've tried everything.

I do feel better having a plan sorted. We got an invitation to a wedding in Oct in the post today and for the first time in ages I didn't wonder how pregnant I'd be by then. I think I have finally accepted that I am not about to get pregnant and realistically it will be a year before there is the possibility that I might be.

joycep I'm so sorry you feel tearful. I have many days like this. I hope the nhs will be able to offer you IUI, and that the wait for it isn't too long. Would it be very expensive to have it done privately?

pout what cycle day are you on? Any moving home news yet?

I'm so sorry that you are feeling tearful today Joycep. Even though there is a certain resignation to the fact that AF will come it still hurts doesn't it.

I just want my AF to come because I know that it will eventually. I am sick of checking every 5 minutes in the loo and getting fired up for it's arrival with every twinge. I have gone back through my diary today and realised that if I have a long cycle it might not arrive until Thursday - CD33! I am fed up though because I was convinced it was on it's way Thursday & Friday with the spotting. Not sure what that was about but it has had the horrible effect of getting my hopes up when AF was a no show over the weekend. Today however I have that hot/crampy period sensation so I feel all depressed again. And breathe

I think going back to your GP is a good thing. If you can get stuff done for free all the better.
I had blood tests, smear and an initial internal ultrasound ordered by my GP back in September last year. That's when the ultrasound picked up the cysts and PCOS was diagnosed. I then got my referral to the gynae and did the self booking-in thing on the internet where you chose the hospital you want within your area. I was really lucky and managed to get an appointment at the end of October.
I had 3 appointments in all, 3 months between each one.
Appointment 1 was with some awful registrar who was rude and arrogant. He grudgingly ordered more blood tests and the HSG and a SA for DP.

Appointment 2 was with a nice female doctor. She ordered repeat blood tests but just Day 21 not the earlier in the cycle one and another Prolactin test.
Appointment 3 We were discharged because the tests were all normal. DP's SA was not as good as they would like but apparently good enough to get pregnant. She suggested he have another SA at our GP surgery. I was told that funding had been withdrawn for that PCT and because we were "normal" & over 33 no assistance would be given anyway. She said we have unexplained infertility and her advice was to waste no time and have private IUI - she later wrote saying IVF not IUI. In her letter she also enclosed guidelines for the West Sussex PCT who still offer funding and will help after 3 years of unsuccessful TTC regardless of unexplained infertility diagnosis. I'm going back to my GP next week to discuss how to get on the IVF waiting list.

All in all I feel it's all been a bit muddled. I never had the Rubella immunity test, the glucose one, Chlamidiya (sp??) testing or AMH thingy. The last doctor said that there could be an autoimmune problem given my medical history but said that the NHS don't help with that and I should write to some Professor at Nottingham University asking her to help me. Which seems a bit weird to me, a kind of Jim'll Fix It approach!

I hope that your GP will offer you some help. Your LP is a bit short and surely that warrants some investigation in itself.

I hope that you feel better today Joycep I'm sending you my first virtual hugs

X-post Euro and Mrsd

Have you not heard anything back about your NHS appointment then Euro? I would love to get the Autoimmune aspect tested. Like I mentioned in my last post, the gynae I saw said that there is some Professor in Nottingham researching this and that I should write to her. I haven't because it seems like such a long shot and we are so far away from Nottingham anyway.

Mrsd It does seem that IVF is the catch all diagnosis. I'm sure that for many women there is something small in the process that goes awry. It's like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut in many cases I'm sure. Also if you have other issues that are left undiagnosed then chances of a successful IVF outcome are surely greatly reduced anyway.

I'm on cycle day 30, 15 DPO. God I envy women who can get to day 29 and be "late" and then test and put themselves out of this misery! No moving news. We're viewing somewhere on Wednesday but even in the pictures with that stupid wide zoom camera it looks too small!

pout I completely agree that for many I think IVF is the sledgehammer/nut approach. That is why I want more investigations rather than proceedings straight to the IVF end game (although in a few more months that might be what I want).

There are a few clinics and consultants here that do more extensive testing. Mr Shehata is probably the best known name. Another is Mr Gorgy. And there was some guy who popped onto pregnancy a while ago who appeared to be advertising his own clinic in Wales which has just started this kind of testing. It is expensive though and there seems to be little consensus about it at the moment.

I haven't heard anything about my NHS appointment since the GP's admin person called me to say she had sent it for the third time and then called the hospital to confirm they had received it. I am supposed to follow up the middle of this week to make sure they haven't lost it yet again.

It will be interesting to see how many of us on this thread do end up having ivf. When I first started out ttc I thought that having to have ivf would feel like the worst thing in the world but actually it doesn't frighten me so much now. I agree with you though euro that it is a good idea to exhaust all the tests that are available. I guess for some people though time (and money) is limited so it is better to get on with ivf. I've found the HFEA website really informative (even though it is UK based) to help me understand what is involved with ivf. They also have quite a good section on reproductive immunology

Also, I've been lurking on the ivf thread on here and the ladies who post are on the whole so positive that it gives me lots of hope that it is not the awful process I have built up in my head.

If I ever win a huge amount of the lottery then I am going to fund research into fertility (after paying for all you ladies on this thread to have whatever test or treatments you want of course!)

Thanks Pout for the virtual hug and for recapping on what you've had done. It's very useful to know what happens at these appts and what is getting offered on the nhs. I'll speak to my gynae in a few weeks and bascially say i've got no more funding to carry on seeing her. It's costing nearly 500 for 10mins every time i see her. for that sort of money , I did expect miracles. Anyway, I will try and source as much information about where these tests can be done and what tests should be done and will let you all know. It does seem that some of us on here should be getting more things tested just to rule other things out. Anyway, that's not particularly comforting to hear you were told to fund your own IUI - it's a grand a go.
Pout - goodness it messes with your head doesn't it. Do you normally get spotting? it seems you do get encouraging signs every month, do you ever feel like something is happening but soemthing is not sticking?

Mrsd - I always said i would never do IVF if i found sth was wrong but oh how i have changed my mind. I have lurked on the IVF thread as well but it scared me so much i had to stop. Many of them are so positive but I have always been a pessimist and wouldn't be able to be like them. And I am very fearful how i would juggle it and work. I have a feeling i would be let go if they found out here. Also, it would almost be a last stop really and it frighens me that it wouldn't work.

I must say I'm so grateful for this thread. It's such a mindfield out there with so much differeing information and help and it's confusing to know what to do so it's very helpful hearing about everyone's experiences...

pout it might be possible that you did have rubella immunity done but the GP didn't bother to tell you as it would have been tested when they took blood for other things. It doesn't affect fertility, it's just that rubella is harmful to an unborn baby and I don't think you can have the vaccine once pregnant so they test you before so they can give you the vaccine if you're not protected. It might be worth asking the GP about it because it's a very simple blood test. I can now work out how much is involved with each test by the bill I get sent and this was one of the cheaper ones! The most expensive thing has been the smear test so I understand why the nhs ration who can have one! I think you'd probably know if you have an infection too so I wouldn't worry to much if these haven't been checked but again your GP can easily test for these.

15dpo with no AF yet sounds quite promising. I so hope you get a BFP, I would be over the moon for you.

joycep I'm sending you a big virtual hug too to go with pouts. Also, I want you to have a nice because when I have a rubbish day I do sometimes find 10 mins with a cuppa and a slice of cake can make me feel just a teeny bit better.

The costs are horrendous aren't they? I knew I should have been a doctor like my parents always wanted . IUI costs add up quite quickly because they usually give you fertility drugs, a number of scans and the process of washing sperm is quite expensive too. And then you have to pay for the Doctor's time. With success rates of about 10% it does seem like a lot of money for not much hope. But at least it is actively doing something. I'm the type of personality that has to feel like I'm in control and doing something proactive. The hardest part of ttc for me is the waiting and out of control feeling. The thing I worry about IVF too is that it would feel like a last chance thing and the success rate still isn't great. Oh, how I would give anything to be someone who conceives without really trying. They don't know how lucky they are.

The problem with the rubella test is that if you have the vaccine you have to stop ttcing for 3(?) months because it's a live vaccine. And there is no way I would do that at this point. I have had german measles as a kid and also the rubella jab when I was 12 so I hope I am ok.

I was atually reading the HFEA page on reproductive immunology this morning. They are not very enthusiastic about it. But then they did get caught up in the middle of the libel case between the BBC and Dr Taranassi at ARGC relating to reproductive immunology treatment. So I suspect they need to be v careful about saying anything at all.

Euro I hope that the hospital don't lose your referral again. I also hope that you are bumped up the list and don't get put at the bottom again.

It's strange I have a read a couple of threads on here about autoimmune testing that gave me the impression that the testing was straightforward - obviously not. I suppose I should have been alerted to this when I was told that the Nottingham Professor was just researching.

It's funny but before all this trying I too thought that IVF was almost some mythical procedure that poor other women went through. I never dreamed that it would be something that I would be advised to pursue. I suppose if we had the funds I would be chomping at the bit to get started on it. I haven't been on the IVF threads as I suppose there is still a big part of me that thinks it is for other ladies! Also I agree Joycep it would be like the last chance saloon & if that were to fail it would be devastating.

Thank you Mrsd for the reassurances about Rubella & infection. I didn't realise that smears were so expensive - gosh!

Joycep My God - that is an astronomical amount of money. I'm not surprised you were expecting miracles. For that kind of money I would've expected babies for all of us! It's funny I was joking to DP the other day about how he chose the wrong area of study/research & that I wish he'd been a fertility specialist. That is even more true now!

It's strange about the symptoms thing. I know that TTC makes you over analyse your body but my God I know I never had so many weird and wonderful PMT symptoms before. Maybe I am pre-menopausal instead - that's a cheery thought

Mrsd Unfortunately I just know that AF is doing a late, mess with my head routine. It's so frustrating because on paper 15dpo looks quite good but this is me we're talking about, so no such luck!!

Maybe we should have a TTC 6 months+ lottery syndicate. That would be a funny one to explain to reporters when we're receiving our big cardboard cheque. "Yeah, we're all barren & chat about periods and stuff on the internet"

at out barren lottery syndicate. We'd have to call the first born Lotto.

Hello everyone,
sounds like a good few of us are at the worst bit of the cycle, the AF disapointment phase. Hope everyone is as ok as they can be, and ingesting liberal abouts of or for medicinal purposes.

I am at the SWI phase ATM am 14 days into my cycle. One thing I do worry about is my lack of CM, I have hardly any and when I do try and have a poke up there I really have to sweep around to find any (sorry for the grim description! but couldnt think of a polite way to put it... we can also add ' we discuss poking around for mucus' in our interview as barren lottery winners too anyway ) I might try cough syrup next cycle. I have day 21 bloods next week, and Dh is going to ring up and book his SA, there is no designated room at the hospital for sample deposit and its far away from our house, so he will also have to join the 'wank in the loo club'!

On the subject of IVF, like others on this thread I thought that when we started trying if it didnt hapen naturally we wouldnt have any treatment and just accept it (hollow laugh) Now I'm considering trying to go down the egg sharing route a private clinic next year if its found I am ovulating normally and could do this and we still havn't concieved natually. I've talked to Dh and we both wouldnt have a porblem with someone sharing my eggs if they are good enough quality and so on and it would be the only way we could afford treatment I think, and after going through this whole TTC heartache it would be nice to think I could assist in another womans BFP who had been there too.

is treatment quite a lot cheaper if you share your eggs skeleton? Before ttc I would never have considered something like egg sharing but it's funny how much your perspective changes and it is something I would consider now too, although it is illegal here I think.

Has anyone tried a low GI diet for pcos? I'm thinking of giving it a go but wondered if it is hard to follow? I hate diets that are really restrictive or make it impossible to plan a meal and I don't want to eat something different to DH so it would have to be something we could both eat. Is there a good recipe book to get?

looking at CARE fertility centres website treatment is much cheaper with egg donation,for example their northhampton centre www.carefertility.com/docs/locations/northampton/northampton-fees.pdf only £565 for the actual treamement per cycle, then is around £700 for screening and registration for egg donor but I think that is a one off fee, and I guess a couple of hundred for consulation, still it means it costs around 1 and a half for the first go and then £500 quid for a repeat cycle, ICSI is another £900 on top, so, much less expensive than without egg sharing. Of course I could have poor eggs or low FSH levels and not be able to do this, but the fact that its a possiblilty makes me feel less panicy about all that money per cycle!

Mrsd, I try to eat low GI. I don't follow any particular diet programme. I just try to stick to brown bread/rice/pasta rather than white and avoid things with refined sugar (in all its guises - sucrose, etc) in as much as possible. I also try to use protein rather than carbs to fill me up. I don't avoid fruit or anything like that though, and I do have the occasional treat (chocolate mostly!). I figure if you are going to do it ong term, the key is moderation and doing something that is maintainable. That works for me and bar the occasional bout of weakness in front of the pick and mix bar at the cinema, I manage to stick to it.

I am another one who thought IVF would not be for me and I would just accept it if we couldn't have kids otherwise.

ong term = long term