TTC 6+ months plus, part 2

[skeletonbones]

New thread as the old one was getting to 1000. So, 4 BFP's in the last thread, lets see if we can up the total considerably on this one :)

How weird - loads of us at the same stage in our cycles, and we all seem to be having really early spotting. Mine started on 11DPO too. So in support of the theory that women who live together cycle together (which we are proving in a virtual world) I think we need to all go and gatecrash antenatal threads or something . I'm sorry we're all being visited again though, it's just so depressing isn't it. I'll be about to start cycle 15. I know I'm ancient, but when we started TTC I just thought that meant it might take 6 months. I also distinctly remember being mega excited the first time we had sex without contraception. And slightly terrified - hence my MN user name. I suspect I should change it to ContraceptionwasawasteoftimeNelly.

Joycep you did make me laugh with talking to your boobs in the loos at work

So - DP managed to talk to the doc today about his SA results and he said "they were normal, nothing to worry about". No figures given, but basically said he didn't have my results in front of him but it was up to us what to do next; if we wanted to come in would refer us. So in summary, I have had day 3 bloods and day 21. Only spoken to receptionist for the results but been told day 3 showed one hormone slightly higher but not enough to cause problems, and day 21 confirmed ovulation, and rubella immunity was fine. OH has normal swimmers. I have realised though I don't know what my progesterone is though, that wasn't mentioned when I phoned. And of course I don't know if my eggs are any use. So I guess I will make a doc appointment and take it from there. But this is good news, yes? So why, weirdly, doesn't it feel like it. I don't understand . It's not like I wish there was something wrong with either of us. But I guess it doesn't exactly help answer the "why am I not pregnant" question.

Does any believe these things run in families? My sister ended up having IVF for unexplained fertility.

fish and chips just arrived (home delivery chipper, how lazy is that!) so better go just now.

nelly how old are you both? [justbeingnoisey]

I'm 36

Well I'm 37 and dh is 38... So we're older

I'm 35 and OH is 36.

I think there is a lot about fertility we don't know. I think we all should be able to get pg in a couple of months of correctly timed swi.

I love my husband dearly but he was very much a "head" choice (good husband, good potential father, easy to live with, etc) rather than a "loins" choice. I wonder if I had gone for someone completely impractical that I had huge chemistry with, my body would have found duffage easier. My loins choices in the past have always ended in disaster which is why I went the way I did. But one of my friends had extensive testing done after much failed IVF and found that her and her husband were basically genetically a bit too similar to breed easily. They got there eventually though, through IVF.

Oh dear we can be the reproductively geriatric bunch . Anyway Karbea I'll be joining you next weekend so not really that much older! And actually the fact DP is younger has been a problem, as he's not really felt the urgency in the same way. Mind you, most men seem to think they are still 18, judging by the way they dump wet towels on the floor and hang Kelly Brooks calendars up in the kitchen!

Euro it's wrong, isn't it, that when I read that your OH was a choice my mind instantly went to the gutter . It's an interesting theory though, and certainly makes some sense. After all, most animals procreate based primarily on chemistry, not on who would be best at changing nappies. I hadn't heard about similar genetics though? Does that mean that blue-eyed skinny minny me and brown eyed slightly more solid DP should be ok then! But I wouldn't worry euro, when you see some people who clearly haven't had many problems conceiving, you realise it's not that selective .

Pout- the very first month last year I thought sth had happened but not for the past 14 cycles. I just don't feel anything. I get dizzy spells a lot but I think that is sth to do with low blood sugar...which is just one of a very long list of self diagnosed problems I have. I am feeling ok Thanks, Miranda and Frasier cheered me up tonight- as in the tv programmed, just in case you were wondering! It's good you have chatted with DP.

I am into cycle 15 as well nervous.

Well Exactly a year tomorrow since m/c. I seem to have a lot of cycles in a year. I know people always say at least you got pregnant once but I do worry that it made me infertile, like my body repelled it. But that's interesting Euro about your friends. I Have heard that people can be incompatible but to be genetically similar is interesting. You so hear stories about incest relationships producing children though.

David beckham has said they want another child. Ok my aim is to get up duffer before that happens. Damn was going to stop setting deadlines.

The explanation was that if you are too genetically similar your womb thinks an embryo is a mutation of your own cells and destroys it, rather than an embryo and welcomes it. Or something.

I have a cut and paste of the tests she had somewhere. I'll dig it out sometime.

Oh no joycep, sorry for such a rubbish anniversary. The problem of course (well, one of a million) of TTC is that by it's very nature you have to pay attention to dates, so you notice everything. Today would've been my due date if I'd got pregnant first time; or this is the date at which if I'm not pregnant, I won't have a baby by the time I turn x-years old. My current favourite is how pregnant would I be by the time I go on holiday, if I was to get a bfp this month. .

I don't think I've had any "maybe" months. No symptoms, ever.. The only weird thing is a couple of very short cycles, one or two have been about 22 days, and I wonder if that meant anything. One for the list of questions for the doc I suppose. I've always thought of my cycles as fairly regular but actually now I see they are a bit all over the place. Anything from 22 to 29 days in the last 14 cycles. Most are 25 or 26. This most recent was 26, the one before was 29. Does anyone know if that in itself means anything?

Oh and Fuck off, Beckhams. 5 kids? That'd just be rude.

Euro if you can find that info, I'd be interested certainly.

joycep sorry to hear about your rubbish anniversary.

Nelly I can't find the explanation of the problem but I have kept the list of tests she had.

Level 1 tests

The following level 1 tests are.

Karyotyping for DH and you (tests for any genetic issues)
Sperm assays and investigations - including DNA fragmentation testing

Uterine investagations should be done to make sure everything is ok.

Hysteroscopy, HSG etc. to check for scarring, fibroids, polyps etc
Thin lining, no triple stripe etc.
Doppler - to check blood flow in uterus

More level 1 tests -

Insulin resistance (fasting glucose test)
Thyroid levels (TSH, T3, T4)
Anti Nuclear Antibodies
Anti thyroglobulin
Anti-thyroid antibodies
Full Blood count
ESR (Erythrocyte Sedimentation rate)
RA (Rheumatoid Arthritis)

BLOOD CLOTTING PANEL (Thrombophilia panel)

Serum Immunoglobulins (IgG, IgM and IgA)
Activated Protein C Resistance
Factor V Leiden genotype
Anti Phospholipid Antibodies
Lupus Anticoagulant
Anti Cardiolipin Antibodies
Plasma Free Protein S level
Factor II G20210A
Prothrombin Gene Mutation
Antithrombin III M
Fibrinogen level
APTT (Activited Partial Thromboplastin Time)
APTR

MTHFR (methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase) and connected with this is measurement of your homocysteine levels

BACTERIAL

Mycoplasma,
Ureaplasma
Bacterial vaginosis
Chlamydia and any other bacterial infections
Varicella Zoster antibodies

Level 2 tests are the Chicago tests.

Then she had a crazy drug regime to support her pregnancy. But it worked!

The genetics thing is interesting and scary in equal measure. I think there may be some mileage in the chemistry thing too.
Slightly related to this I am convinced that if DP and I had have been TTC in the early years of our relationship when we were still really into each other physically we would have got pregnant more easily. This has no basis at all in science or fact but I just reckon his sperm would have been a bit more eager and might have been more "competitive". Now I just think that his sperm know that his are the only ones there will ever be and they don't have to try so hard.

I too was convinced when we started TTC that it would take a few months, 6 at most. I can't comprehend that it has been well over a year and counting. This worries me as I am beginning to think that there are two camps of women - the ones who fall pregnant within a very short time and the ones who take years and have intervention. That is a depressing thought.

I often think that my age is a big factor but then I turn on the TV and see women of my age & older who are pregnant and have a whole brood. My tests are all okay so rationally it can't be my age. I just want a reason why this is so bloody difficult!

I don't know much about what are okay cycle lengths Nelly. I think some variation in length is okay from what I was told but it would probably be worth discussing it with your GP.

It's weird that a few of us have synchronised our cycle and have early spotting. I wonder whether there is some woo woo explanation like the moon???

Joycep I'm sorry about your MC anniversary. I'm sorry I mentioned the falling pregnant thing and maybe it not sticking. I didn't think and hope I didn't upset you.

I love Frasier and have a crush on Niles - sad

pout we think similarly. I think if I had followed my animal instincts and tried to get pregnant from the early days of a relationship with someone I have huge amounts of chemistry with, I might find it easier! It's just a theory of mine. (But I'd probably be a single mum, dealing with an @rsehole of an ex, so there is a downside!)

I have long been a believer in the "two camps" of conception. All these average times to conceive of 6-8 months or whatever, I think are made up of lots of people who get pregnant very quickly and some who take a lot longer and very few who actually take 6-8 months!

I always thought I would take ages to get PG because when I was diagnosed with PCOS nearly 20 years ago, the consultant basically said "come back when you want to get pregnant". And I thought ttc generally takes a while because you would hear of people "trying for a baby" which makes it sound difficult! But then a few of my friends, including one with PCOS, got pregnant first or second month out. So by the time I started, I was cautiously optimistic. I am no longer optimistic.

I second the lack of optimism Euro. Unfortunately I can't seem to turn that part of my brain/heart off and focus on a life quite probably without children. I think the reality is we won't be having IVF or IUI because of financial constraints and who knows what the NHS will offer in 2 years time, I expect the IVF budget will have been cut even more by then.

We bumped into a couple who we know today who took 2 years to conceive. They are very newly pregnant & so happy about it & telling us all about their scan next week. I thought that I would feel awful & envious especially given my impending AF but I actually felt really, really pleased for them and trotted off to buy my sanitary products without so much as a teary eye! I suppose they give me some hope that it can happen naturally after a long time of trying. The trouble is I don't think I would be sane after 2 years!

On another note I don't think that DP is really getting the whole I could rip
his someone's head off because I am so fed up the moment and full of PMT rage. He happily just told me how he hadn't bothered to pursue a really nice house that accepts dogs because he didn't like the attitude of the estate agents. God give me strength. I hope his principles are a comfort to him when we are homeless

That's a nice story about your friends pout, did it happen naturally for them after 2 years or did they have treatment? It's funny you say they had tried for 2 years because I got talking to someone I work with yesterday who told me that she stopped using contraception 2 years ago and nothing has happened yet. We were talking about it because she had just been asked by a colleague if she had ever thought of having children (she's only 34 and the person asked it as if her time to have children was long gone) and I could see she was a bit upset by the question, I noticed because I am sensitive to those sorts of questions now so once we were alone I asked if she was ok. She told me that they have been trying for 2 years, so I asked if she had seen a Dr and she said no because her BIL is a doctor and they had asked him and he had told them it is normal to take 3 years . I told her that it was probably a good idea to see someone but she was adamant that there was no need yet. I don't know what sort of Dr her BIL is but I know he works in a hospital so he is not a GP and not gynae so I bet he doesn't even know much about fertility so I feel a bit mad on her behalf. I didn't want to push it because it's none of my business really but I hate to think that she is wasting time not seeing anyone. I don't believe it is normal to take 3 years.

Do you think Zara and Kate are going to be in a race to see who gets pregnant first?

I think there must be going to be a big baby boom in Feb, I've just heard that someone else I know is pregnant and due in Feb. She is someone who changes her partner like I change my underwear and only got with this guy in September so I reckon your theory about competing sperm might be right pout .

So if the competing sperm theory is true - OH is away all week, should I put on my Fuck Me shoes and go out dancing? .

3 years better not be normal!! I'll be in the loony bin by then

Three fecking years? Do they do pushchair attachments for zimmer frames I wonder....

That poor woman, losing so much time because of her ignorant BIL. 3 years is way beyond NICE guidelines.

I don't think Zara will be getting upduffed soon because she is due to compete at the Olympics next summer. I reckon it will be after that. But I think Kate duffage will happen soon.

Hello,
Hope you don't mind me poping by, I just wanted to offer some hope to those recently diagnosed with PCOS.
I was diagnosed around eight years ago after much ttc heart-ache, I tried Metformin for several months, unfortuately it didn't work for me.
As a last resort I was offered Ovarian Diathermy ( small operation to burn holes into the thickened ovary wall, which can help eggs release on time).
It might be worth considering / asking your GP about, as many GP's don't seem to mention it as an option, despite having a 50% success rate (success being pregnancy within the following six months).
Hope this may help.

Hi I am doing a bit of drunk posting! Hope everyone is ok tonight, I am pretty pissed for the first time in a while, as has been discussed previously on this thread, I'm rapidly losing patience with ttc and wondering what the point in trying to be good is hence the drinking. Anyhoo, I'm well behind on all the news and will catch up properly tomorrow but.... Euro, I was just really curious as to the tests your friend had. How did having all these tests come about? WAs she given them because ivf had failed? Just interested because they seem to go way beyond the usual infertility tests that we're all getting referred for at the moment xx

joy cep ((hug))

The acupuncture man says at my age the average is a year and that, that assumes everything is perfect, and for every slightly 'wrong' thing you should add a year, as my periods are sometimes short, I should be assuming 2years.
Temp lower this am so af defo on it's way, but at least I got to day 26, 13dpo... I wanted to get to 27... But this is my short month (I normally have a long then a short) last short month was 21 days so I'm pretty proud , nelly I know it's quite common to have some shorten ones, and often every other one. The shorten ones, as I was saying the other day, you are less likely to conceive.

popcorn I assume that it was private. She went to a clinic in Sheffield. If you ever look at American conception sites, there seems to be a lot of tests that are run over there as standard (if the routine ones that we all have don't show anything) that most people over here never get.

There is a thread on here about the immuno testing and steroid support. It is fairly new and there are not a lot of people specialising in it over here.

karbea do you mind me asking what age that applies to?

at the thought of pushchairs complete with zimmer frame.

There seems to be so much conflicting advice about what is a 'normal' length of time for ttc and I guess that's because it is impossible to say. My gynae said that she would expect a couple of our age (both 30) and otherwise healthy (and non smoking and fit) and who are having regular sex (which she said means 2-3 times a week) to get pregnant within 12 months. And that in most cases it is within 6 months. The problem is that the tests that are available might not be able to detect a problem but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem. Everyone I know of a similar age to me where I know how long they took (or can have a good guess based on when they got married) has got pregnant within 6 months so I knew when I passed that, that something wasn't right. I have never felt like something might be happening. I felt sorry for this woman at work because I think she is living in ignorance that there is nothing wrong and 2 years is not unusual. But in some ways it's maybe good she feels like that because at least she's not stressing (although she is upset about it not happening yet) but I hate to think that she's losing time not getting help.

Euro thanks. Very interesting that there is a whole raft of tests that we may never be offered in the uk.

Agree that pretty much everyone I know has either conceived very quickly or taken ages. I don't know anyone in the 6-12 months bracket. A girl I know recently got pregnant naturally after four years trying and a failed cycle of ivf, they had unexplained infertility.

I found 'Taking charge of your fertility' a very depressing book because it was pretty clear that the author thought that a couple should be pregnant after 3 months of well-timed SWI, and that if they weren't there must be something wrong with them. As I was already about 7 months in by the time I read it, it just made me feel crap.

Ah well. Pine bark is here so onwards and upwards

popcorn pine bark?
Af arrived so back to day 1.

So I'm back on the primrose oil, royal jelly, grapefruit juice...

I reckon it's got to be diet that'll help, but then you look at all these young babies in Africa and I can't imagine they were paying too much attention to their diets... Who knows...