TTC 6+ months plus, part 2

[skeletonbones]

New thread as the old one was getting to 1000. So, 4 BFP's in the last thread, lets see if we can up the total considerably on this one :)

Oh you must get a snake Pout then we can be snakepram friends and meet up in the park to take the little ones out for fresh air. I think everyone on this thread should get a snake and then, when we all get our BFP's we can have a PFBsnake thread where we all agonise about our snakey eldests getting pushed out by the new human baby and finding the right sort of tandem buggy combo which is suitable for both. Oooh and we can also meet in soft play centres and look harassed, I will be shouting at my snake 'Lucien darling, dont twine round you little brother like that, you know he doesn't like it! DON'T YOU HISS AT ME LIKE THAT YOUNG MAN!!!' and then I'll get him a fruitshoot as a distraction technique
yes I'm doing the PGCE in Sept peace what do you teach? there seems to be a lot of teachers on this thread, I know Purple is a teacher and I'm sure there are a few more too.

Mrsden - I would have felt exactly the same! At the school I teach at the parents (none of whom work) seem to pop out a baby a year and don't look after the ones they've got, makes me so angry!

Oh mrsden I know exactly how you feel. You aren't evil at all. It's hard when you've got so much love to give. Maybe we should take skeleton's advice and all get snakes. What would the cat think? .

As the voice of reason and cheer - we will all get there. :)

I think that getting a snake, dressing it as a baby and taking it to a soft play area is the logical conclusion of my current state of mind!

you know advising snake aquisition might be my mumsnet niche, its a one size fits all solution.I could solve everything on AIBU, for example; 'sorry to hear your son is being so naughty, maybe a sticker chart may help with a small reward at the end for completing the chart- perhaps a pet snake?' ...'Oh no what a bastard you husband is being, maybe adopting a large boa constrictor and threatening him with it may resolve matters'... If the clearblue monitor turns out to be a dud, I will so kick myself for depleting my pet snake fund!

Hi all,

I don't think that I could manage a snake, but could I become one of those crazy people with a monkey for a baby instead? I know some sign language so could teach it to sign and dress it up in trendy baby gear. The snake is much more shocking for nosy parkers looking in the pram, I admit, but I could never cuddle a snake.....

Just back from doctor and all initial tests came back normal. Thought that that would frustrate me but I'm actually quite relieved. Like many of us, I have always assumed that the problem was with me, but with experiences like yours mrsden I had started thinking quite seriously that it could be a problem with him, or with both of us. Will need to wait about 12 weeks until the referral to the fertility clinic comes through before we can get any more tests done. Here's hoping that now I know I'm definitely ovulating and his swimmers are plentiful and moving, that we'll just manage it ourselves.

Have a great day everyone :)

MrsD - you?re not a bitter hag at all....well if this constitutes you being a bitter hag, i am as well as I did sth very similar the other day. And yes I have seen these Baby on Board badges twice now and on people with big bumps. I mean obvious bumps. I felt like asking? ? so do you wear a badge when you?re ill?? or ?what happens if you have a broken leg, do you wear a badge for that??. I really thought I had become less bitter a few weeks ago but i think it must be hormonal because I have been having very poisonous thoughts lately. My friend keeps emailing me about her nursery, her bump and what happens if she goes in to labour early. And I just keep thinking that she has plenty of friends with babies, she knows we are struggling so why doesn?t she keep those emails for her baby friends. I then feel guilty about having these thoughts because she has always been such a good friend. Arrgghgh (i'll make amends when i'm pregnant, promise). Ladies, I certainly need a poisonous snake!

Madness - I am pleased that your tests are normal. Has your DH had a SA yet?

Hi to everyone else...woohoo it?s a Friday!

good news about the tests Thatway fingers crossed it will happen naturally for you soon.
I had my first doc visit this morning and it went well i think, I was also told 18 months of trying before referal this morning and I'm not in scotland, so maybe all the PCTs are going to adopt this and make us all wait longer, maybe worth anyone who is thinking of starting tests to lie a bit and up their month count to 18 to get the ball rolling? anyway even though she said 18 months she did agree to start tests now anyway, she feels that SA for my husband is the most important test as he is the one without any children, she wasnt too bothered about testing my progesterone levels as she said i had been proven to be able to have children due to having my girls, but said she would do bloods at day 1-2 and 21 if I wanted so I'm having these too (I thought it was a bit short sighted not to consider seconary infertility too, as I was a teen when I got upduffed with my girls and I'm now 30 heading to 31 so in a different stage fertility wise) I feel much better for getting the ball rolling as i have been really worried and TBH embarrased at the thought of going to the docs to discuss it.

oh and another thing - does anyone get freaked out by the buses on MN. It is now: "Hop on Board Baby bus April 2012" ....i remember when they were all 2011 buses and my heart sinks when I see these.

Just a quick one so won't name check but hello. Will catch up later but wanted to share that OH finally deposited his SA sample today, after about 6 weeks of me nagging encouraging him . Question though. Does he get the results from the GP or the hospital? It's been so long since we saw the doc I can't remember.

I love how I've just posted on t'internet that my OH had a (excuse me) wank this morning .

Gotta go, hope the snakes are well. And that's not a euphemism

I think it will be the GP nelly, The doctor this morning told me to book a an appointment with her for both me and dh when the SA and bloods are back to dicuss results.

yes I get freaked by the buses joycep I find how far on people who have anounced their pregnancies are on FB since I have been trying a bit of a reminder of the whole infernal struggle too!

thatway I'm liking the monkey baby idea, do you think your monkey baby will play nicely with the snakes at softplay?

Hello ladies (tiptoes back in on the lookout for strange looking snakes & monkeys... )

AF arrived today - I don't feel too bad, though am a bit fed up at the tedium of it all...

Still, blood tests as of next week, and DP's going to arrange his SA later (well done Nelly ), so I suppose we're sort of moving in the right direction. I just wish I'd had some dye pumped through my tubes the other week rather than an ultrasound, as I can't help but feel I'm going to need it sooner or later anyway.

Anyway, cycle 9 her I come. Hope you're all enjoying nice sunny afternoons.

joycep got DH's SA results and they were all normal as well. She didn't give me figures but said that the sperm count, motility and morphology were all within the normal range. Fertility clinic will probably go into more detail when we get to them.

Nelly I made appointment for us both for about 2 weeks after my bloods were taken. They said that the SA results take a week to come back but the rubella immunity they were doing for me would take about 10 days.

Skeleton surely snakes and monkeys get on in the jungle so at softplay they would feel right at home?

pixie I'll be on cycle 16 by the time I even speak to the fertility specialist about ultrasounds or dye, so you're well on your way :)

Evening all

Just got DHs SA...i'm a bit shocked and don't know how to feel.
The sperm count is v low

We've only had the results on paper, we have the fertility clinic appointment in 2 weeks but can't wait that long to talk about them so will go to the doctors together on monday to see what she says.
Is there anyway it can be a bad sample and a retest will be normal/high sperm count? Or am I just kidding myself.

I thought it might be my tubes after an STI when I was young which obviously is fixable. Is this fixable??

Oh Fatima, sorry to hear that. Our first SA result showed an ok count but the motility was very low. I would say this (based on no medical expertise whatsoever ):

• Results can vary from sample to sample
• I think it is probably 'improveable' or maybe even fixable.

Our second sample 2 or 3 moths later came back with normal motility (still not blooming pg though ).

In the intervening period, DH gave up pepsi/coke (never drank coffee or tea anyway). He also never smoked or drank much so not much to do there. They also suggest making sure that they wear boxers rather than pants (again he already did that anyway). He also started taking the male tablets from the Pregnacare conception his and her vitamins (there are several male versions around). Now vitamins wise I don't know too much about which ones help motility or count etc but there are various supplements out there - does anyone know any more specifics? Your doctor should hopefully be able to suggest some ideas for that I clearly recall a couple we knew who were having ivf and the bloke was taking supplements to help with his swimmers for that (even though the 'problem' was with his wife) so I am sure there are things that can be done.

As I say, I don't know much in the way of details for sperm count but I am sure there are things that can help over a period of say 3-4 months.

Also, there are treatments which can help this too. I think IUI can help where sperm is the problem as they don't have to do the swimming bit (maybe that is more use if motility is the problem?) and ICSI where all they need is one good energetic sperm to inject into an egg for the IVF procedure (don't know if that is even on your radar?). I read a leaflet when DH was having his tests done that explained a treatment they can do before IUI or IVF called sperm washing or something where they can just get out the best sperm ready for action.

Hope that helps a little bit. Lots of hugs going your way xxx

Thanks Biscuits

I've looked in to IUI and ICSI although I didn't think I'd need to be contemplating them so soon.

We'll definitely go to the doctors next week, I wont be able to stand the not knowing for 2 weeks. It does say a retest is recommended so we'll see what happens there.

I'm being all positive for DH, he has a tendency to go quite and withdrawn rather than discuss things so i'm trying to keep it light.
He suffered a trauma down there as a child and I know this has been playing on his mind even though the dr said there was nothing to worry about.

He does smoke and drinks at the weekends so it looks like he'll have to cut out/down on that. He also drinks coffee so that could go. When we first TTC we didn't bother with the changing out habit, just thought it would happen but obviously some changes are due.

Whatever happens it doesn't look like i'm going to be getting pregnant in the next few months does it, even if we do manage to up his count.

Think I might book the holiday I was think about

Fatima sorry to hear that. It is always a bit of a shock when you get news like that. Apparently it is quite common to get bad sperm results though and that's why they always do a few tests. As Biscuits has said, there are lots of things you can do to help though so I wouldn't get too panicked about it yet. If it is low it might just mean that it takes a bit longer for you but as long as there are some healthy sperm, you will definitely get there in the end. Sending some and hugs xxx

Holiday would probably be a good thing. And I know it is hard for our DHs when they think it is 'their' fault. My DH was a bit the same but as I pointed out he wouldn't be 'blaming' me if my tests had shown a problem - it just isn't a 'blame' sort of thing. However, DH isn't too bad at talking about these things though so easier to have the conversation.

I agree that IUI / ICSI are last resorts - I didn't mean to panic you into thinking it was all over or anything - it's just that all my words cone tumbling out once I start and we've got a lot further down that path so all the knowledge gets stuck together and comes out in a big lump .

I would deffo recommend some sort of conception vit or supplement as I reckon that was what made the diff to DH - there was only that and the pepsi that he changed and got a def improvement in less than 3 mths (will check time between his tests when I've finished my tea )

More hugs your way xx

16th Feb to 19 May so 3 mths xx

Thanks popcorn i'm hoping that a retest will be higher but it was very low so even an increase will still be below normal. There are some excellent motility sperm though and some sluggish so hopefully they'll win though

Biscuits Don't worry you didn't scare me, my colleague had ICSI so i've heard all about it and fully prepared that it may be a route we have to go down at some point.

I think i'll have to try stop expecting it to happen every month, as there's now a higher likelihood it won't. But maybe that will be just what we need, a bit of pressure off

I think I might have a

fatima here is a big hug for you and a short or probably long, knowing my gabbling capacity, message about our friend Sperm.

In May, me and my dh waltzed casually into our gps to get the first SA results. I'd had a bit of a borderline day 21 test ( have since had a better one) so presumed I was the issue.

Anyhows, dh had a very high count, average to low motility and low morphology 3%. the gp looked a bit concerned and when I - in shock - asked if we could conceive naturally she said 'you might..' and started to tell us about iui. I won't ever forget that day, it was horrid. Dh even cried which is too sad to think about. I trawled the entire Internet for stories of sperm getting better and found not a lot. But I think that's because people forget to go back and say - hey - I got pregnant in the end, it just took a while.

On test one, dh had abstained 4 days. He has cut down coffee and booze since, doesn't smoke and we bought a juicer and have 3-4 fruit and veg juices a week. He takes well man conception, high vit c and pine bark ( have a google). Six weeks later we did test 2, dh wanted to just see if it was a one off. This time 3 days abstaining. Morphology on this was 7%, motility had gone to 96% rapid (!) but count had HALVED from 100 million to 50, which is still fine though. Doc said it wasn't ace cos of the morphology but that natural pregnancy was definitely possible. What I'm saying is that it changes from test to test. On test two, the vol was higher but the count lower - your test two could easily double or triple or more . I reckon if our boys had a daily wank for a month and looked at it, every time it would vary. Cos let's face it - it's a variable thing. I've no doubt there are millions of men who father babies with low count/morphology/ motility and never know because they weren't tested, maybe it just took them longer. Or maybe they were lucky. WHO values have also changed - our gp isn't even up to date with that.

Maybe some of us on here do have a few less sperm swimming around than others.But I guess babies don't really care much about sperm numbers and shapes. We should trust that sperm are crafty - I used to think this, and maybe this should our mantra!what happened to being 15 and worrying you could get pregnant from fingering Please dont worry as much as I did. Massive love and huge cheering up to you - you aren't on your own x

Big hugs to you fatima, if you've read my long and self pitying posts earlier in this thread you will know that I have been there. I was in total shock for about a week and felt like everything was hopeless but as I've researched more and more I realise that it is not the massive problem I thought at first.

My DH has a very low count and also poor morphology. His motility is good though. But his second test showed higher count (still not normal but much higher than the very, very awful first result) so you really shouldn't take too much from just one test. DH got referred to see a urologist to check if there was a health issue and to try and find a reason for his very poor count. The urologist did blood tests, ultrasound and also a physical exam and prostate check. He concluded that the damage was caused by a hernia op DH had as a child. Anyway, he said there isn't really that much you can do to improve count but it is possible to improve morphology and motility. He recommended taking a supplement of vit A, C, E, zinc and selenium. And also to SWI every 3 days but not more frequently so as to maximise the count. He stressed that it can happen naturally because it only takes one. I do think it is important to be realistic though and I know that our chances are very much reduced. IUI and ICSI are excellent treatments for getting round low count and we are now looking at these. At first this really scared me but now I think that isn't nearly as scary as I first thought. So, what I'm trying to say is please don't panic. In lots of ways it is better to know what the problem is and to be able to plan. Hope this helps, I do know what you might be feeling like tonight xx

also just to add, DH was very withdrawn for a while and didn't want to talk about it. He kept saying he felt like he'd let me down. Your DH might feel like this too, and I found it helped to give him a bit of time before trying to talk through what it all meant. But it really does help to talk about it together, and to be clear that no one is to blame.

Thanks mrsden and everyone else for the hugs and advice.
I haven't been on this thread for long, always looked to big to join but i'm glad I did, it's helped to talk to others in similar positions.
I had a bad-ish night, keep thinking about it and thinking that the likelihood is we wont get pregnant naturally. I haven't mentioned this to DH, i'll wait until we've seen the doctor as I don't want to scare him. But i'm trying to be realistic.

I know it's just one sample, but his concentration was around 1 million compared to a 20 million normal reference and his morphology was only 3%. There are some excellent motility ones there but obviously only a percentage of a small amount.
I know if we change some factors another sample may be better, but i can't see it rising from 1mil to 20mil.

I know it's still possible as it only takes one sperm but, maybe i'm being pessimistic rather than realistic, but I can't see that happening.

I suppose it's going to be a case of looking in to IUI or ICSI. I'm younger than DH by quite a few years so hopefully that will work in my favour

Thanks for being here, how is everyone else today??

I'm staying at a friends for a girly night tonight so I think it calls for lots of and chick flicks

The other thing I wondered Fatima about my dh's first sample was that he found it all a bit odd and 'off putting' trying to catch it all especially as they say the first bit is so important. I think that sort of pressure must be off-putting whereas he was a bit more used to it the second time and I think he found it a bit easier.

Don't know if that makes any difference but just a thought...