Clearblue Fertility Monitor Support Group Buddies Vol 5!!

[boba82]

Ladies from Vol4 - welcome to our new home.

KC - I agree totally about the NHS being the place to be! I have had some great help, support with physical problems (ok, not with fertility but that has been the exception!) and the NHS obs/gynae I saw who would manage any hopeful pregnancy was great!

Choccie - I love your name of "chocciebean" wow! Glad the heartbeat is ok. Whilst the news of fibroid was a shock, it is great that:

• you were told straight away
• will be more closely monitored and know that now because you will probably get more scans on the nhs, will know that you are getting great care and any concerns you have will be dealt with
• you will not be in much longer than with a vaginal birth, as my new mum friends with c-section were in 4-5 nights, with vaginal birth 2 nights!!

Choccie - perhaps knowing why there is bleeding etc will reassure you? I have been told I will have to have detailed scans at 20 weeks for checking for issues, close consultant led monitoring etc and possible time in hospital to treat any infections that I get (with regular vaginal swabs, yuk!!) as I can't fight many infections well. Dh and I have decided to approach any potential pregnancy as a time where I can't necessarily do what I normally do, stop work earlier than I would ideally need to do and pack a hospital bag with nice books and treats for lots of enforced rest with drips in me! I think if I go into it fearing the worst then I can cope. If that makes sense.

Tily protein shakes for me for ivf to hopefully grow some eggs, as I am coeliac, can't even have oats, other food allergies, and no meat meaning I will struggle to get to 65g of protein a day.

SBC - the reflexology has already done great things for you and the medicaiton for prolactin sounds really promising!! Lots of pma for you! (pos mental attitude!) xx

KC - meant to add, that sounds very exciting shopping . And dh and I took Jan off ttc, and it really helped us both!

Oh Storm, what a great thread you have made - really hope more of us join you there very soon! Save us some spaces pleasexx

Please graduates, don't leave us altogether - you give us hope!

kc I must clarify my comment. I'm not an NHS basher so should qualify that the treatment I've had on the NHS through my MCs has been amazing for the most part, and the EPU has been a life-saver. It's being an in-patient - for 4-5 days keziah?! aaaargh - is a different story altogether. I do feel strongly that people need to tell the truth because when the NHS get it wrong its devastating.

DH was in hospital a year or so ago after a broken leg while playing football. He went in in the best of health. He couldn't eat a thing while in there even though he's not a fussy eater (we just watched the Dispatches programme, his food came from Wales from the same company sent up to Scotland as well). I brought him food from home.

He was left in his sweaty football kit for days; no one washed or helped him get clean and when I tried to help him the nurses flipped out because I wanted to borrow a mirror so he could shave. No one changed his sheets until we asked them to do it.

He had to remind them about his pain medication twice - left in agony; they left his line in his hand to get infected and only took it out when he asked, again more than once. He had no sleep at all with the noise from the nurses talking at their station. They took their time bringing him something to pee in even though he couldn't go to the loo himself - I found him once in such a state of despair because he thought he was going to pee his bed. And they'd leave this tub of urine next to his bed for hours afterwards - even through visiting hours.

Worse was, when he got home he had acquired a chest infection that sounded as if an animal was purring in his chest - scared the living daylights out of me and I'd lie awake at night in case he suffocated on phlem. His fevers were so high I had to change his bedding and clothes every night because they would be dripping with sweat. And DH went in fit and healthy in the middle of playing a football game. DH comments now that they did their level best to try and kill him. They certainly broke his spirit. We had worse experiences with his 80 year old father the same year, but you get my drift. And that year, the brand new hospital performed very badly on hygiene standards.

I agree with you that NHS bashing is not good - but I also think people need to be frank about acknowledging when things are very wrong.

I shouldn't have been so general with my comments ... I am genuinely properly seriously scared to go in there - with reason - and don't know what I can do to make sure I'll be OK. It was beyond our control with Dh and we're not the 'non-assertive' types. We were just totally powerless.

... at the moment I'm just hoping it doesn't come to that and already looking into maybe travelling further for a different hospital. (I think we have a right to choose where we go). Sorry, bit of a rant but I'm having sleepless nights thinking about it. Very worried.

sbc Don't worry, we're not going anywhere. We'll be here to kick, cajole, encourage and support all of your butts into the next thread and welcome you there with open arms. I hope you'll all visit us too!

keziah You sound a lot more grounded than me! As well as treats in my bag, I'll be having hospital quality cleaning stuff with me! I've already warned DH his first job is to disinfect my room and every inch of space around me. (And trust me, he will!)

Choccie I am sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience with the NHS.

I appreciate your concern.

I ope that you put in an official complaint. Systems failures can only be corrected by such.

I didn't mean to offend you, but please do remember that private hospitals in the UK do not have the facilities that an NHS hospital has such as HDU (High Dependency Unit), ICU (Intensive Care Unit) and SCBU (Special Care Baby Unit). If you (unfotunately) require these facilities in a private hospital, the NHS picks up the pieces.

Sorry, we're here to support, not to argue. You've had an awful experience. I am sorry to hear of your experiences.

My best friend had a post-partum hemorrhage two weeks ago. The NHS saved her life. My DH devotes his life to the NHS. They are not all shit.

Choccie - my groundedness is purely due to the amount of time I have had to spend in the city nhs hospital in last 2 years!! Pleurisy, pneumonia, asthma, car accident, other physical infections etc... I must say the food is an issue for me (but am prepared to provide my own - have to have a strict coeliac diet and there is not one thing on breakfast menu I can have, but plenty on the rest of the day - although one ENT ward they were great and gave me fresh fruit for breakfast on short stay ward I got a cup of tea!!)

Choccie - you absolutely have the right to choose where you give birth. A friend had one child in local city's hospital, had a bad experience as needed an emergency caesarian (and I think romanticised a short pain free natural labour) so despite having her own room and good care insisted on going to further away city's hospital for dd2. Sadly she again needed a casearean, and in fact was in that hospital for quite a while on bed rest before birth - only difference being less visitors for dd2's due to distance. She did not have the experiences you have had = I would not go anywhere that was that bad, although I too would now submit a complaint. Some people sadly do let the side down, they need to be named and re-trained/supervised or replaced whether cleaning, housekeeping or nursing. But, honestly Choccie there are some great hospitals out there!! I had 5 days in a ward this year (septic tonsillitis) and got my own room, it was cleaned twice a day, a great housekeeper who sorted out my special diet, more fresh drinks than I knew what to do with, regular checks by nurses, dr's called every time a cannula needed replacing etc.... And they made my bed for me every day, offered me things to wash with as I went in as an emergency so had nothing etc. You may have a great experience!! You get to visit the maternity wards when you a certain way through pregnancy so why not see where you can go (you may find maternity units different to other parts of the hospital), why not contact your local NCT group and ask to talk to people who went to the local hospital and what they experienced?? Oh, and I always have cleaning stuff too - but that is because I am immuno compromised!! When I get on a plane the first thing dh does is antibac the seat, the table, the belts - everything - even if people waiting to sit down!! - you sound really anxious, so why not contact people who can give you advice in your local area to help reduce your stress? (sorry, gone on now, oops!)

Sorry, I am really sensitive about this. I've seen my DH work his arse off in his hospital training to pick up the pieces from crap private care. I am biased, I know.

The NHS pays out when private care goes wrong.

An example. Private hip replacement. There is a 50 - 60% risk of deep vein thrombosis (without prophylaxis, but there is still a risk with prophylaxis) following this op (clot in the deep veins of the leg). Clot thrombolises (breaks off and travels to the lung). Can be fatal. Patient subsequently rushed in to A&E (if they survivive it) and has NHS treatment. Also left with co-morbidities, if they live (venous ulcers massively impact on quality of life - skin necrosis etc). Who picks up the cost?

Sorry ladies, probably time for me to depart this thread. I am a little too passionate about some things....

Good luck to you all. Take care. x

KC Why are you leaving??? - surely everyone is entitled to their opinions - even you!! Just draw a line under this conversation. You have been a great hub of knowledge on this thread......don't go. It would be such a shame and pretty sure its a silly reason to leave. (no offence intended)

IMO I think this has got a little out of hand - but why it has, I have no idea! Not one persons post was offensive in anyway, they simply show different peaoples points of view.

It would definately be a shame to lose you KC and I'm pretty sure no offence has been caused by anyone or to anyone! Has it?

Keziah & Choccie can you back me up? or have I completely interpreted everything wrong????

Anyway KC if you are adament you are leaving us, I wish you all the very best.

XX

I agree storm it's just a difference in opinion and doesn't seem offensive, we all have different experiences which should help us all offer advice....

Good luck to all the graduates, pop back and say hi from time to time and let us know how you are getting on, hopefully some more of us will join you soon...

I third that. I think sometimes when you're reading things instead of hearing them spoken you can take them the wrong way, let's all stay friends!

choccie glad chocciebean is well. Sorry your fibroid is also thriving although I agree with what keziah said that hopefully it will re-assure you should there be any bleeding.

SBC I think you will really enjoy reflexology, it is really relaxing.

storm all being well tomorrow I will join your new thread but will still be on this one too, it's too like home now

kitty good luck for tomorrow. I'm bricking it!

boba Good luck for tomorrow. I've found with my scans that the relief afterwards is so huge I almost need to go to bed and sleep. It's an indication of how much stress we carry even without really registering it fully. It is very scary and I'll be thinking of you and kitty and hoping everything turns out well for both of you.

stormbird I'm not offended at all, far from it. But I've only just logged in today so have only just seen the direction this has gone and I am a little taken aback. I certainly didn't write with a sense of anger or animosity towards anyone here. Last night I was totally freaking out; today I've had a chance to try and get things fixed a bit.

kc From my perspective, I want to assure you I am not upset at all ... but I am sensing real anger from you and I don't know what I said? DH and I are aware of how loyal people are to the NHS (we are fairly loyal as well, actually - but not blindly loyal). We were asked by Which? magazine to be interviewed for an article they were running about issues in the NHS that they'd identified accross the UK and DH declined because he didn't want his name publically associated with negative comments about the NHS because he feared a backlash from people who knew him. I think that speaks volumes about the feelings around this, and it is not necessarily positive in my view.

keziah, kc I am thinking that you've assumed that this is a 'go NHS' vs 'go private' thing for me. It isn't. And nor is it a 'private' vs 'NHS' discussion about which service is better. I think it is entirely possible to be loyal to the NHS but also open about its failings at the same time. It isn't black and white, or one position or the other, for me. The bottom line is we've had worrying experiences at both of the two hospitals in our city - in-patient/surgery related worries - mostly around aftercare and basic nursing and hygiene, not the doctors, consultants or equipment etc. This means its hard to see where else I can go when we've exhausted our two NHS options. We won't go private for surgery or hospital for all the reasons you outlined kc. And frankly, we aren't 'private' kind of people either from our ethical/political point of view either, so 'going private' isn't even really a factor in my mind. We were scratching around for a third option, if there was one.

keziah I am really hoping you are right. I've now had a frank chat with my midwife about this. As well as DH, I also told her about what happened with the anaethetist when I had my ERPC and what the consultants told my MIL when FIL was in hospital. It turns out the second hospital isn't an option anyway, so I'm relieved I won't be shunted there. She seemed unsurprised by what I told her. She has advised me to go to a third hospital, one I would never have even thought of but it means a bit of driving for us to get there, which is fine. She has also asked that I don't tell anyone in either hospital that she gave me that advice: apparently she gets flack from the smaller hospital for swelling their numbers, and flack from the bigger hospital (the one I'm wary of) for implying to her patients that the service is better elsewhere! But she bluntly said it was. I'm still hoping surgery won't be necessary but if it is, I feel a little better about someone 'on the inside of the system' validating my experience and recommending somewhere else. She also told me I'll get a meeting with a consultant before delivery time and I've decided to lay my cards on the table and tell him/her exactly what happened in all three experiences - mine, DH and FIL - and ask how I can be sure it won't happen to me and baby as well, and what DH needs to do if he sees things starting to go wrong. I don't really know what else I can do beyond that.

I am getting ahead of myself though - there's still a chance this pg could fail in which case there'll be no such thing as delivery or caesarian.

kc I hope you won't leave over this discussion. Nothing I said is intended to be a slight against you or your DH, and I'm very sorry if you feel that it is. From your point of view and your DH's, I can totally understand and sympathise with how frustrating it must be for people doing their level best within the system to hear this sort of thing. But I would ask, is it really surprising or unreasonable for patients like me to feel scared or apprehensive given the experiences (this is not based on an opinion) that I've had?

Anyway, I'm writing this with Gaddaffi's speech ranting away in the background. It kind of puts 'troubles' in perspective.

Choccie I am sorry that I over-reacted.

From my perspective, I'm feeling pretty rock bottom that I am now onto cycle number 18 of TTC. Now referred to the Consultant, the process is about to become medicalised. That's a frightening thought. I've had excellent and speedy care so far. Things can (and do) go wrong in any healthcare system regardless of whether it's NHS or Private. Although you are in a position where you are understandably wary because you are actually pregnant, it's quite frightening hearing the individual horror stories with respect to how poor NHS care has been when I'm in a position of becoming an NHS patient myself (even if just under fertility services).

All I was doing was trying to point out that not all hospitals are bad or the same, and we tend to hear about things when they go wrong, not right. More people go through the NHS, so the number of complaints will be higher, and this could apply even if the proportion of complaints is lower than in other systems.

When things do go wrong, of course, complaints should be made so that the failure in the system can be corrected. I do not believe in keeping quiet when an action to improve and make it better for the next patient can be implemented. I also accept there are some very good NHS hospitals, and some in which the management and systems have failed and they are poor. However, a large number are good or very good. Yours obviously wasn't, but it's excellent to see that your midwife has recognised this and advised you to go elsewhere within the NHS.

But my point is that I'd rather not be an outpatient of any sort of healthcare system (private or NHS), but as DH and I are desperate for a baby, we have very little choice. Therefore, I want to think positively about the process and the healthcare that may need to receive over the coming months.

I'm really sorry if I read to much into your post. I was feeling really low and pre-menstrual (AF got me last night in the end), and don't want to add worrying about possible poor health care to my list of concerns. I think I would actually implode!

Sorry I didn't explain all that.

Again, apologies for getting so upset. I'm feeling so frustrated and angry at the moment that I just can't seem to get pregnant and don't know the reason.

kc I am reaching out to you from the other side of a BFP, and I know how those two little lines on a test can feel like a million mile gap between two people.

But the reason I stick around on this thread is because I remember every day how TTC nearly broke me. If I count from the day DH and I decided to abandon birth control to the day I got my current BFP, it amounts to 25 months. We were literally scheduled to start IVF in Feb this year, and Dec was our last month of TTC before I was told we had to abstain through Jan. And that was our jackpot month. We were diagnosed with unexplained infertility and we just gave up - for us, that diagnosis meant to me that basically we couldn't have children, and there was nothing anyone could do to help us.

I've walked that road - and frankly, I may walk that road again because I have a history of miscarriages.

I am nearly 40 years old, so I couldn't even console myself that I had a few years for it to happen. I had reached a point on my journey when I said to DH that my future was black - it was impossible to imagine a life without children. The despair was immense. I had this unbearably sad moment in Dec, before we knew our luck had changed, when I overheard DH telling my sister we'd never have children and he was trying to smile bravely about it. His fragile wobbly smile is an image I'll never ever forget my whole life.

Knowing this as I do, it utterly breaks my heart to hear other people going through the same or similar. I really wasn't upset by anything you said so you don't need to apologise - what upset me more was the possibility you might leave the thread when I think the support here is so important when ttc. I dearly hope you (and everyone here) will feel you can ask me any question you like, and if I have any insight, I will give you all the details no holds barred.

I don't know how far down the 'medicalised' route you are, but my first piece of advice would be to start writing to your GP and keeping him/her posted on where you're at. I've learned that a paper-trail in the NHS is a very effective way of making sure you don't drop through the cracks.

Second, sit down and write a list of questions. When you get your first appointment with a consultant (not your GP - be warned, they won't know anything) warn him at the very beginning of the meeting that you have lots of questions and you want to ask them all so he knows to leave time for you to ask them. (I took an A4 sheet in filled from top to bottom with questions).

I was never good at positivity on my journey, as much as I wish I was. But when I reached a point when I finally felt informed I started to feel grounded. I can't tell you that this alleviates the despair, but it does start to quieten a very stressed mind grappling around for any solution - no matter how bizarre - to help achieve that goal. I'm not the best person in the world when it comes to hand holding, but if you feel you want to ask me anything, I promise you I won't bullshit you.

x

Hi ladies,

Well I have finally done it and had the 12 week scan. I was so terrified after what happened last summer walking in full of hope and then learning that something was very very wrong.

Anyhow, today went smoothly and the nuchal fold was normal and the heart was beating. I do however feel unexpectedly sad thinking about my little angel who i will never meet and wondering whether I will ever feel a guiltless love for this beautiful new being. Im thinking of my little angel so much today.

BOBA i am also thinking of you and hoping so deeply and strongly and with all my heart that your day has gone well

Liz xx

Hi chocciechip.
The part where you overheard your husband really hit home with me. I have had so many people shock me in the things they say and felt let down and hurt more times than I can remember but it's the feeling that I'm letting my DH down that really breaks my heart. I know him better than anyone in the world and when he turns the tv over because River cottage has a special episode about dads and their children, or he see's a dad playing with his child in the park and and looks away I know he's thinking "I want that more than anything". Today he said to me "I wish you could surprise me and it just go smoothly" I thought, so do I but I can't. He didn't mean that in a cruel way at all, he's very loving, he just felt like it was all hopeless. I wish more than anything that I could give him a baby and sometimes I look over and think maybe you'd be better off without me.

We've been trying since 2008 and with two miscarriages behind us and now waiting for my period to come again it seems like we're further away than ever. I wish I could be positive and I tried reading everything I could get my hands on to feel like I had some control back but I got a reputation for that quickly. My GP told my consultant and when I first saw him he said "oh you're the lady who's been reading all the books" and then slammed down all the tests I'd read about that had given me hope.

This place is great though because for every story of despair there comes two stories of women who thought they'd never get there and are now the proudest parents there are. So I guess in that respect I am still positive.

So thanks and I hope we all get our babies.

Choccie - no I was not assuming you would go to a private hospital for your birth, just a different nhs hospital where you did not have negative associations with. As I have several physical problems I have to go to 2 different NHS hospitals as they don't have the departments I need in one, which is fine by me. I know there are also some midwife led birth units, that are small, but that is not an option if need a consultant - so will not be for me either.

KC I can understand a bit, as we are now in yr 3 of official ttc and sadly did not get speedy care to start with and then paperwork hassle, every month the af was a reminder. It takes it toll, in different ways and at different stages. I am sorry you are now seeing a consultant but that also may be hopeful as they may offer treatment to help. When do you see the consultant? And you have your new job, which may be just the distraction you need!!

kitty so pleased for you that the scan went well.

As for me, today is day 1 so 7 more days down regulating then a scan to check I am down regulated! A tiny little step forward, but I still fear people stopping this process.

Kitty That's really good news. Really pleased for you!

Keziah We see the Consultant on 4 April to decide what next now we officially have the diagnosis unexplained infertility.

I think I am feeling so down partly because I thought I was going to cope much better with AF's arrival. After all, I'm starting a new job, and being pragmatic, if I was pregnant then I wouldn't qualify for maternity. But instead I've felt worse than I usually do and now I've had the HSG I'm beginning to lose hope it will happen naturally. Feeling very overwhelmed at the moment and just want to think as positively as I can about the future. You know I always wanted to have quite a large family, but now I'll be more than grateful if I manage to ever have just one.

I guess we all have our points when we get really low and then things get a bit better for a bit.

How are you doing with your treatment? Hope you are feeling OK?

aMuminwaiting Sorry to hear that the Consultant was so off hand with you and you have had such a tough time with it all.

KC I can't really say too much to help you, as we are at pretty similar points in this lottery of TTC, but one thing I have stumbled upon is www.fertilityfriends.co.uk, don't know if anyone else has seen this one? (Keziah?)

I was looking for the FF place everyone talks about - but this site has a lot of info and a lot of people write their fertility diaries, which I have found interesting and hopeful! Also there is an area section where people write about their experiences with their fertility clinics and consultants - all positive for the unit I'm going to - I imagine it is the same story across the country.

Hope this helps.

SBC

Hi ladies

KC I echo what choccie has said. I finally got the BFP as we would have been going into our 20th month. Miracles can happen. Everyone goes through these dark spells, it is soul destroying TTC and I know exactly how you're feeling atm. It will lift, just try and focus on something positive, like your new job to get you through atm.

keziah I think you'll have an army behind you if anyone tries stopping you now! Good luck, I have everything crossed for you!

kitty glad all well for you.

Lychees are you still here? Have been thinking of you. . . .

My scan went well, only 11+1 though. bobabean was a wee bit too small to do nuchal measurement so have to go back on the 7th but all well as far as we could see. It's a great relief.

Hugs to all those feeling shitty. x x x

phew so pleased to see this boba...surprised they couldn't do nuchal they wanted to do mine at 11+0 because of my history but im sure that will be fine anyway when you go back; they would have noticed it if massive like mine was last time! and at least now you have seen the heart and growth you can stop worrying ......congrats xxx

Hey Boba - how great, you get a 2nd scan, yippee!! And yes, you are right, an army it will be!

KC - the treatment is actually going better than I thought it would. The nurse I spoke to at the clinic said I could also inject into the outside of the tops of my thighs, and some women rotate 2 legs, left side of stomach and then right side of stomach, so knowing this I feel happier. The spots are there, but haven't increased. So, considering I was told I wouldn't cope with the medication by that person who I will not mention I am happy so far. And knowing what is happening next (scan in a week) and to carry on as I am till then is helpful.

keziah Is this the stage of the treatment where they first bring your natural cycle to a complete stop? If so, it was the part I was most apprehensive about so it sounds really really positive to me that you're coping so well. If they stopped you now they'd have to be the most callous unfeeling people to hit this earth. As for spots - I have a whole field of them on my chin, they all appeared overnight. Not sure if its hormones or the vast quantities of salt and vinegar crisps I seem to be scoffing! Keziah, did the DVD arrive yet? DH posted it a couple days ago.

boba, kitty So glad to hear good news for both of you.

muminwaiting Do you and your DH talk about how you both feel? I started to deliberately make little comments when I spotted DH looking at a child, like 'He's cute, isn't he?' He started doing the same, and it began to close the gap between us - with us sharing the pain, rather than carrying it in isolation.

I think you need to be kind to yourself too - it sounds as if you think that somewhere in all this you've 'failed'. And the fact that you're reading so much and chasing info (as I did for over a year too!) makes me think you're putting enormous pressure on yourself to 'fix' whatever you think you're failing at.

There's a lot about this that is utterly senseless and no one knows - not even the professionals. Some of the most common professional diagnoses speak volumes "unexplained infertility", "unexplained subfertility". If we could control this and fix it, then yes, you could reasonably blame yourself for not 'succeeding'. But we can't: it's nature.

One example of the many I started to collect from Nature ... I like to garden: I can sow a tray of 48 seeds, all from the same packet, using the same compost, getting the same amount of light, the same feed, the same water. More often than not, I'll have some cells in my seedling tray holding seeds that just don't germinate, and its inexplicable to me (i.e. af arrives). And for those that do germinate, not all will survive into seedlings (i.e. miscarriage). Most of us can easily accept this with all natural things in a way we can't with our own bodies. We think we're 'human' and therefore different to everything else in the natural world, but we aren't - we're animals and we're just as fragile and at the whim of Nature as everything else. I think not being able to figure out how to cope with uncertainty and what is beyond our capacity to understand is part of the reason why ttc is so incredibly difficult.

This is a very convoluted way of me trying to say it's not your fault, even if you deep down think its you. And that it may be that what you're experiencing is beyond your control, even if you think you're driven and clever and can fix anything because you always have with everything else in your life (well, that was me, anyway). Please be kind to yourself and let go of the guilt and self-blame. x

amuminwaiting I totally agree with what Choccie chip said but I'm sending a massive hug 'cos I'm on the same side of the fence as you are and waiting waiting waiting like you for it to be 'our turn.'

So many times I convince myslef that it has to happen becasue we are 'good' people and we're doing everything right and this device (CBFM) said that it could happen within 6 months/2months (depending on how optimistic you were when you bought it! And yet here we still are!

My journey TTC is 'unexplained' and I cling onto all positive stories that happened after many months, if not many years of trying. This is CBFM cycle 11 for me. (Previous history 5IUI, 2 IVF 2BFP, 2mc) I just feel that I can't give up yet every day I think I should begin to process what this is doing to our relationship as this TTC journey can eat you up inside.

Please be kind to yourself, take time to cherish your relationship and in you heart don't ever give up because sometimes miracles do happen!!

Love to all

Tilly xx