Planes cheaper than trains. Not right.

[TryingToSeeTheFunnySide]

I live in Sussex. I'm hoping to visit the Scottish Highlands later this year. I don't have a car, so train or plane are my options.
A return train journey from my local station on the south coast costs around £250 (some slightly lower, and some slightly higher). I can get a return flight for around £50.
Obviously, as someone on a very small budget, I have to go with the latter. But surely it's the wrong way round? Flying is so much worse for the environment. I don't mind the time the train takes, but simply can't afford it. Can someone explain why flying is so much cheaper. I'd have thought planes are more expensive to run?
Awful that sometimes lack of money forces you to be less eco-friendly.

I think it's to do with tax of aviation fuel and subsidies from the government. If you Google it there is quite a lot of information and research.

Once you get to the Highlands how are you planning on traveling? You will definitely need a car.

Thank you. I was planning to go to Inverness first, so can manage on foot there. I was thinking that after that, I'd just travel by bus. Or maybe hire a bike, and do a mix or walking or cycling. But maybe I'm being naive?

You definitely won't need a car! It's lovely exploring Scotland, including the Highlands, on public transport - a far better way to enjoy the views.

I get the train up to Inverness, then it's an easy bus ride to Ullapool, then a stunning journey up to Achmelvich with a seat on the daily school bus. I also go to Aberdeen and explore the east coast (Stonehaven has a fabulous Lido) by train. There are lots of good bus routes, and Scotrails rail rover tickets are worth considering. Have you looked at 'split tickets'? You'll probably be able to travel from home up to Inverness for less than £250 return if you buy tickets separately for each leg of your journey. Have a great holiday!

Thank you for this. All very helpful info. I'd far prefer to travel by train. Mostly for environmental reasons; but also more convenient - no airports and checks. Can bring larger amount of water etc. I'll shop around 😊

Have you added the cost of transport either end to the plane cost?

Are you comparing the same sort of times? Cheap flights tend to ve an antisocial times... and trains are cheaper off peak too.

Railcard... do you qualify for any?

The infrastructure cost of the railways is ruinously expensive, i.e. tracks, signalling, bridges, viaducts, stations, etc., not just in terms of the installation/maintenance/renewals costs but also the small army of workers/engineers/signallers etc needed to make it run. Even more expensive because it's mostly still using Victorian infrastructure which constantly needs maintenance and upgrading.

With air travel, the only "infrastructure" as such are the airports and air traffic control. Once the plane is in the air, it's in the air, and doesn't need anything "on the ground". And there is only maybe a dozen or airports in the country compared with 2,500 stations on the railways (excluding underground!) and around 500 signal boxes controlling it.

Both aircraft and trains are exploring using hydrogen for fuel. Keep flying so investment in new technology can be brought to bear on the problems.

I've got a Network Southeast Railcard. That's the only one I'm entitled to currently I think. Which would only cover a portion of the journey. Oh how I miss my Young Persons Railcard! Too old now, and too young for a senior one. To me, that'll be one of the big perks of getting older, when the time comes!
Yes, there'd be a bit of cost to my nearest airport (Gatwick). But not much. I've never been to Inverness, so not sure how much further from the city centre the airport is? I'll look into it all; but, whatever which way, flying is much much cheaper unfortunately, especially if booked in advance. It makes it a huge temptation, as I could use the excess for accommodation once there.

Ah, OK. Fair enough. That makes sense.

Thank you for this. It makes me feel slightly less guilty about flying 🤭
Having said that, I don't fly much. I go to Ireland at least twice a year, and usually get the rail and sail. That's an excellent deal. All the way from my local station to Dublin for less than £60. That's the thing, I'll do the environmentally better thing is prices are comparable. But, some journeys within the UK are vastly cheaper to fly to.

I usually buy my train tickets from Trainline - buy in advance as soon as they are released, you can save lots. On a recent trip to Edinburgh we had to return by plane as there were no trains back on the day we were going and although the flights looked cheaper adding a small cabin case really pushed the cost up.
The train journey up was stunning and myself and my daughter can't wait to do this journey again!

Yes, I love train travel. Some of the routes and views make it a holiday in itself.
I know what you mean about luggage costs. I use Trainline too sometimes. On this occasion though, the time I want to travel, nothing super cheap. But lots of cheap flights, even with extra costs, it's still several times cheaper. I guess that's just how it is and I have to accept it. Obviously some people would far prefer flying, as it's so much quicker. But, personally, I love train travel, and am not a fan of flying. C'est la vie.

Trainline charge booking fees. Cheaper to buy off a TOC website

Most people would drive to an airport as they are outside city centres, , so by the time you add that in, plus having to be there 2 hours early, then waiting for your bag the other end and transport into the destination city centre, there's not much difference in journey times tbh.

For the plane journey you need to cost in fuel to get to the airport, (expensive) parking at the airport, the money you spend on food, drink and crap in the airport while you're waiting to board, and transport to wherever you're going from the destination airport. So, though while flying is cheaper, it's not as much cheaper as you think.

Yes, I can relate to this, and it isn't a recent phenomenon either. Around 10 years ago I needed to get from the area near Luton to Glasgow. Train was about £120 and would have taken all day, EasyJet flight was £35 and took an hour.

No brainer really.

In some cases you're definitely right. But, in this particular case, I would just need to get to Gatwick by train (goes there directly) from my local station, which is about £12.50 return. Then from Inverness airport to Inverness, apparently I can do that by train for £5.90 single. So, add that up with the cheap flights, and it's still vastly cheaper than trains the whole way.
Weirdly, going abroad can be very cheap by train and ferry, or going on the channel tunnel to France. But, domestic flights are often vastly cheaper than domestic train journeys in this country.
I know they're expensive to run; but I still do think train journeys are far too expensive in the UK.

You should be able to get a general Network Rail card for about £30. But I certainly agree, train travel is far to expensive here most of the time.

You are being naive.
Bus services are few and far between in Scotland.

You'll need a car. You can get them delivered to Dalcross Airport.

its bonkers. I have two trips lined up to see old friends this year. One in Germany and one about 200 miles away (within the UK). One is by air an one is by rail - guess which is cheaper?
The rail trip I researched a lot and there seemed to be no options less than £130. I have in the past used a railcard for cheap travel when I have the kids with me. It's far cheaper to drag your kids with you than to go by yourself it would appear. But they aren't coming on this trip and I'm not aware of a railcard for a person travelling alone (other than the YP which I am sadly def no longer). It also is going to take absolutely bloody ages. I wouldn't mid paying a small arm and a leg for a fancy, fast train.

Also recently went to Belgium I thought I'd compare and contrast and I flew out and got the train back (well two trains). The train took a fair bit longer but it was comfy etc and possibly less stressful. But cost an awful lot more. Why would you expect people to pay extra to take more time? Just nuts.

It's outrageous, I agree. It's the same with other things too - the bus here for a short family journey into town is more than v expensive car parking. If we are serious about tackling climate change, public transport needs to be subsidised properly and flying etc needs to have subsidies removed. It's exasperating!

Yes, it's immensely frustrating when you're trying to do your best for the planet.

I was just doing some research, and found this article -

https://www.greenbiz.com/article/twisted-economics-uk-trains-4-times-more-expensive-planes#:~:text=While%20airlines%20pay%20no%20kerosene,highest%20ticket%20prices%20in%20Europe.

It answers some of my own questions. Seems Britain is the worst in Europe, I'm terms of crazy train prices. Shameful really...

*in terms, not I'm terms! Autocorrect at work!

Last year I had to go to Manchester from London for a personal appointment (a difficult one). For various reasons I didn't know the exact date and time until the day before so only booked a day in advance. It was about £230 for a day return. For one person. And to make it worse I got to Euston early and asked if I could get on the earlier train (both were in peak time) and was told no! I could only travel on the trains specified.

In contrast I've paid £150 for two return flights from London Gatwick to Palma in September. Yes , I've booked them early, but train fares are outrageous.

And both trains I took were very empty. No wonder.

It's bonkers isn't it.

I've had situations where I've checked out train prices and almost fell off my chair! I think a big factor is that flights have gotten so competitive these days, especially with all those budget airlines popping up. They can offer some crazy cheap deals that make it hard to justify taking the train, even if it's more eco-friendly or more comfortable.
But hey, there are still times when trains are the way to go. Like, if you're not in a rush and you wanna enjoy the scenery or just chill with a book, trains can be a great option. Plus, you don't have to deal with all the airport hassle. And hey, if you can find a good deal on https://www.dbfahrplan.com/de/  or other similar sites, then why not give the train a shot? You might just be pleasantly surprised!