Planes cheaper than trains. Not right.

[TryingToSeeTheFunnySide]

I live in Sussex. I'm hoping to visit the Scottish Highlands later this year. I don't have a car, so train or plane are my options.
A return train journey from my local station on the south coast costs around £250 (some slightly lower, and some slightly higher). I can get a return flight for around £50.
Obviously, as someone on a very small budget, I have to go with the latter. But surely it's the wrong way round? Flying is so much worse for the environment. I don't mind the time the train takes, but simply can't afford it. Can someone explain why flying is so much cheaper. I'd have thought planes are more expensive to run?
Awful that sometimes lack of money forces you to be less eco-friendly.

Yes, that's what I thought too. UK trains are vastly more expensive than pretty much anywhere else in Europe. So, I think, if they can manage it...

Ooh, that's a very good point! (about delay repay) I've had some repayments (in the form of train vouchers) for delayed trains in the past. As train delays are so common these days, there's actually a very decent chance of that happening!

Then we need to look at why trains in the UK cost so much more to run than in Europe.

Slightly off topic, but it's worth checking out the Chaotic Scot on Instagram re travelling round Scotland on public transport

Yes, I don't know why. Older infrastructure maybe, that needs more repairs? That's just a wild guess on my part. I've got no idea...

Ah, thank you. That's genuinely very helpful. I'll check it out. I definitely plan on getting by with public transport, as well as a very good pair of walking shoes!

I live in the South West my sister lives in Northumberland. It's cheaper for us to fly and meet in Barcelona than it is to meet somewhere in the midlands.

Oh my flipping goodness! You're not wrong. I just googled Berlin to Vienna by train. Was taken to Trainline and put a random date in. The lowest price that came up was £25!!! The most expensive was £70. Average about £40.
What the heck??? What is wrong with us here that we're not having a peaceful revolution about train fares? We just take annual fare hikes lying down. Myself included. Bonkers situation.

People say these things as if the cost of train travel is inevitable. IT IS NOT! In other countries (European ones) you can travel by train at a fraction of the cost. Privatisation and lack of investment are to blame

It's crazy is it! I go to Scotland for family reasons. It's £345 on the train for 2 people with railcard, it's £100 to fly plus £30 parking, it's £120 to drive (plus have use of car) but cheapest is the cost at £80 for the 2 of us, cheaper when dp turns 60 and can get a coach card. We drive was it's 2nd cheapest and flexible but I would prefer to take the train

@taxguru

With air travel, the only "infrastructure" as such are the airports and air traffic control. Once the plane is in the air, it's in the air, and doesn't need anything "on the ground". And there is only maybe a dozen or airports in the country compared with 2,500 stations on the railways (excluding underground!) and around 500 signal boxes controlling it.

It’s not a straightforward or as simple as that. There’s a lot of complex stuff that goes on behind behind the scenes in aviation that has to be paid for that most of the public aren’t aware of. For example every single flight, every single day needs a load and balance calculation run, a bespoke fuel plan calculated and best route decided upon and then planned…that all costs in personnel and IT costs…There’s a lot of other parallel stuff (e.g. the physical loading) that also needs paying for before the aircraft even moves.

Get airborne and you definitely do need lots of something “on the ground” and that costs. Fly along and you get handed off at regular intervals from one control center to another (so a bit like signal boxes) so the airlines have to pay navigation charges to fund all the ATC datalink, radars, communications systems and of course controllers needed en-route.

There’s lot lot more as well but to cut to the chase and the bottom line is it typically reckoned to cost at least 10,000 USD an hour to operate something 737/A320 sized.

Now people are right in saying one advantage is airlines can get costs down by flying multiple sectors a day per aircraft (short haul) but I suspect there is more to it than that.

I’m not in the UK and I have to agree with some pps that looked at from overseas UK train fares look eyewatering, and maybe that’s the bigger mystery.

I’ve just booked a long distance (>400 km) domestic inter city trip for this summer, and there was no significant difference between the air fare and the train fare..I’m taking the train.

When I worked for a cycling charity, in consultation with the council and British Rail, we were trying to get a narrow bridge carrying a mainline railway widened to make it possible for motor traffic and cycles to safely share the road.
British Rail, as they were then, quoted public liability insurance as running into millions and therefore the work was impossible to fund. Must be true for railways in general?

Try splitmyfare website if you can be flexible when you travel. It appears there is basically a tax on being environmentally friendly while they keep flying taxes low

Yadnbu- I always say this but over lockdown they said the ozone began to right itself when trains were grounded and people weren’t driving as much. All the governments need to start thinking about how to stop everyone flying everywhere eg only one flight a year unless eg you have family somewhere or other circumstances that require it

I regularly go to Scotland and it is always cheaper by plane but you can reduce the cost of the train by doing split tickets, maybe taking a less direct train, or changing the time of departure. If you can get a railcard you can save one third.

But the big problem with the train imo is how long it takes. And the likelihood of delays is high in my experience. I have been badly delayed by flooding, someone threatening to jump off a bridge, lack of staff, signal problems. It's a long journey and things do go wrong.

I would take the plane!