ISRAEL IS COMMITTING CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY

[ReturnIsAbasicHumanRight]

Who thinks its fair to kill pple in their own land in the name of defence???

who thinks this should be in a different topic?

so

this is today

And Hamas need to stop firing rockets into Israel.

not when they are having war declared on them they don't....

Oh yes - would be much more laudable if israel just laid down and quietly suffered the 60 or so rockets fired at it daily by the palestians in Gaza without making such a bloody fuss about it.

yes fuss....
seeing as they usually use tanks and tank fire against young boys with stones, this is quite fair.
|infact the Hamas ceasefire had held until 2 weeks ago, yet 60 Palestinians had been killed insdie Gaza...
Hence the Hamas retorting

But yes tit for tat
but that is some fucking TAT huh

Agree with Piffle.

I'm quite upset about the whole thing. It's so depressing and seems hopeless and I wish there was something I could do.

Oh please piffle. What do you think the palestinians have been doing these past months eh? Trimming the roses? ? No , no , no - they have fired around 60 rockets per day at schools, nurseries and hospitals - yes , that's right - hospitals at the nearest Israeli town they could reach. And , yes , that's also right - they aim precisely for these places. So they aim for the defenceless and young and vulnerable. And they justify all this by claiming that the more Jews - yes , its Jews not just Israelis - they call the quicker the route to the hereafter for them. So don't give me that tank at young boy crap. Sort of like filthy dirty pot calling the kettle black.

Oh yes - and they're also hard at work building smuggling tunnels under and through which their friends and sponsers in neighbouring arab countries kindly provide more ammunition and bomb making equiepment. Such a peaceful people, non?

But I grant you one - they do know how to play the media. And how.

Yes and the IRA was also targeting civilian in Britain during the troubles.

BUT DID THE BRITISH ARMY GO IN AND BOMB THE SHIT OUT OF DUBLIN??????

The Israeli planned their strike 6 months ago - they never had ANY intention keeping to the terms of the ceasefire

And David Millibands response was cowardly
He should have expelled the Israeli ambassador. Instead of towing the American line. Hopefully Obama will take a different tack and stop defending Israel - and get them bloody talking!

I'm NOT saying that what the Hammas are doing is right, but the Israelis have GOT to find another way

Oh yes I agree this should be in a different topic, how do we get it moved?

The Israelis are showing an armed response to underground guerilla warfare. I think in an ideal world none of this would happen but I do not condemn Israel for what they are doing.
And David Millibands response? I think expelling the Israeli ambassador would be wrong. Our track record on human rights in conflict isn't exactly impeccable!

No bouncingturtle - you cannot compare the 2 situations at all. Did the IRA shower a city in England, say Bristol, with 60 rockets per day - yes per day -aimed at kindergartens and hospitals and killing hundreds - yes hundreds- for 4 months at a time? That is only in 2008 to say nothing of what's been going on for years in Israel.

What would have been the English response had the IRA done so? Diplomacy for a while, yes. As did the Israelis. Pleas were made to Abbas to end teh voilence. When that failed Israel asked Mubarak to intervene . That also failed. The response was that Hamas would not stop and did not intend to stop.

So - take the analogy further. What then would England do? Remember Britsol is being showered - yes showered with rockets daily. Schools are now closed and hospitals destroyed. offices are closed and the people spend most of their time in shelters. This town in Israel is Sderot by the way.

I doubt whether England would go on its merry way and issue gas marks to the residents of Bristol adn then hope the situation goes away.

To my mind the IRA have only attacked on few occasions on the mainland. It is wholly different and incomparable to having a hostile population living adjacent to you showering you with rockets and blowing up your buses and schools and places of worship regularly causing mass destruction and death as Israel suffers.

How many Israelis have been killed by rocket attacks in the last year then?

Anarchyaunt - 291 to be precise - not counting those killed in last few days. All 291 were not - not- military personnel but were private citizens and of these 151 were children - killed whilst attending nursery or school.

How many have been blown up by nail bombs when thay are shopping/ going to school etc?

Really? I cannot find this figure on the internet and would be interested in seeing it.

I appreciate it cannot be reduced to a simple death toll comparison but from what I understand from the media the death toll is higher on the palestinian side, leading me to feel the response is disproportionate to say the least.

socialpariah - did you read my post above? 151 were children.

In july 2008 palestinian terrorists walked into a grad school - for ages 14 -20 year olds and shot 8 young boys where they were studying in the library. They then wounded another 50 - of these 40 will never walk or use their arms or legs again - some of them don't have arms or legs. So the word "wounded" is not used lightly.

The fundamental difference here can be seen in a picture of Israeli forces destroying Hamas goverment buildings today. View the pictures caerfully and what you can see speaks volumes. The 3 buildings are reduced to rubble but - and herein lies the rub - the surrounding buildings which are flats are still standing.

The IDF does not aim to kill children or women or the old or vulnerable or defenceless. It does not fire rockets into kindergratens to kill or stride into schools in GAza and fire at point blank range whilst shouting " Allah Akhbar". It does not walk onto buses strapped with explosives and blow the occupants sky high. It does not bomb trains or hotels on religious festivals. Neither does it suicide bomb weddings or other celebrations. The IDF is aiming at the destructin of Hamas and its infastructure.

And when civilians are killed the IDF does not celebrate. It does not parade its victories through the streets of Israel nor distribute sweets in the streets to celebrate bloodshed. Neither does it produce sick martyrdom videos shown to children -yes children - praising those who kill and maim as martyrs to be copied and glorified . Neither does it promise heaven and 60 virgins to those who kill. It does not have as part of its curriculum the honour and glory of suicide "martyrs" and niether does it encourage its women and young children to don suicide belts and blow themselves up as they will arouse less suspiciion than the men and tehrefore be more succesful.

I wonder if you remember the 2005 london tube bombings and teh celebrations in Gaza? Do you remember seeing the footage of the palestininans thronging the streets and throwing sweets and treats in the air in jubilant and gloating celebration. Is this the same people that you defend and would condone as having respect for life?

I was addressing anarchyaunt.....
I am very much pro Israeli

This and this is what I can find relating to the Israeli death toll that looks reputable and unbiased.

revjustaboutwipestheslateclean - how then would you deal wtih a part of your population intent on killing you? Do you think Israel wants to spend this money on "policing" the Gaza strip. they couldn't wait to leave and hoped against hope that by withdrawing things would get better. You must understand hwoever that whilst the palestininas are intent on bombing the Israelis out of existance Israel cannot just open all borders and allow them carte blanche access to its citizens. What responsible country would do that?

Anarchyaunt - you have to understand that the PLO and Hamas manifesto are to wipe Israel clean of Jews from sea to sea and end to end. There is no room - no room at all - for compromise from their side. That is why all attempts at peace fail. That is why the White House accords wtih Arafat failed. His own people refused to accept it and he narrowly escaped execution. Peres practically offered East Jersualem to Arafat along with the internationalisation of Jersulem proper as well as independance for eth West Bank and Gaza. Still nothing. We can see that now Gaza is free of Israeli rule as are WEst Bank towns all that comes out of there is boiling hatred and rockets.

there is only so much you can appease.

anarchyaunt -it is very hard to find sitrs that are unbiased. What is expected by the world at large is that Israel should just put up and shut up. Sderot is a town destroyed by the palesitinan rockets. How many here even know its name let alone what its citizens go through >

Let me just get straight that I think all loss of life, on every side in any conflict, is a tragedy.

I just can't help feeling that this latest bombing campaign is, as I said, disproportionate to say the least.