Works Christmas do

[Heartattack41]

What do you all do to accommodate every one for a works Christmas do? Only 15 or so if us but some are Muslim so don't drink or gamble , need halal food etc. One is in a wheelchair and needs accessibility, one is grumpy and refuses everything. Just after some fresh ideas that I can put to everyone.

Why would some Muslims be offended by that? It is Christmas. Jesus and Christmas are not offensive to Muslims. Jesus is a prophet of Islam too.

You aren’t inviting them to engage in collective worship, which would be offensive. You are inviting them to a meal.

First you suggest not inviting them, then you suggest it would be offensive to them. I think you should maybe develop your own knowledge and understanding before making silly projections.

No of course I wouldn't say this is a Christian country. To reiterate what I said in my post, Christmas is often viewed as a cultural tradition. Our bank holidays and other celebrations such as Easter are Christian.

I tend to accept the cultural norms (within reason) of other countries. I don't protest and say how offended I am when someone from another culture talks about a tradition.

In my opinion, your workplace is discriminating against Christians who have every right to celebrate Christmas and talk about it. The fact that you all bent over without a whimper is what surprises me.

You would invite them because they are part of the team. A work Xmas event is not religious, it's just a joyful get together with a bit of team bonding.

They wouldn't. It's only white people who imagine Muslims are offended by the word Christmas. I work with lots of Muslims. They all enjoy our annual Christmas lunch (some even send Christmas cards). They usually eat the vegetarian or fish option from the menu.
Just go out for a nice meal somewhere. Don't try and do anything else. Everyone loves a nice meal out.

Being offended by other people’s cultures, is not a reason for them to no longer be able celebrate their culture.

Also, the Christmas topic on mumsnet might not be the place for you.

I agree - the fact that management agreed to deny any mention of Christmas despite it being a public holiday is baffling. The best teams are diverse, and that means incorporating difference, not excluding stuff on the basis of religious ‘offence’. The company just needs to make festivities optional rather than mandated.

Whether people like it or not, we are constitutionally a Christian country.

@LordEmsworth

I'm astonished by your organisations approach to this.
I"m interested in why people only seem concerned about offending Muslim people.
What about Sikhs, Hindus, Jews.
Or what about proper practicing Christians ?
I worked in a civil service dept, in my office white Christians were not the majority of staff, certainly practising Christians.
Somehow we managed to celebrate Christmas, Eid, Diwali without offending anyone.
People for whom Christmas was not part of their culture where happy not to take leave at Christmas, and were given priority for leave for their particular festivals, and no one batted an eyelash when people who usually wore western clothes turned up for work in their cultural dress.
No one was offended. If you didn't want to participate in anything you weren't forced to.
I'm white, culturally Christian and always left the Christmas do early because I'm not a drinker. I wasn't offended that they carried on drinking, they weren't a offended that I left. Because, at least on this issue we were grown ups

It’s definitely the place for me

I think this is a good idea.

Me too 😊

Oh yes and this as well. My preferred Christmas do would be sandwiches in the office (or fish and chips which we did once) then the afternoon off.

NOTHING out of hours, please pretty please.

I’m not a Christian and I love a Christmas party. I only know one Christian in our office of 100s, so it would be a pretty crap party if only they turned up!

Definitely do it in work hours, we tend to do that now to be more accommodating to those who have caring responsibilities and it’s not really a treat if you have to take leisure time to do it. We tend to do activities now (electronic darts was fun and accessible).

Alternatively, no-one should be forced to participate in anyone else's religious or cultural beliefs in the workplace. I am surprised that so many people here feel it should be a requirement. This is not refusing to let someone do something that is part of their own religion - it is not allowing one religion to be emphasised above others.

@candlewhickgreen The fact that you all bent over without a whimper is what surprises me. - really, it seems a bit extreme to me to compare "not forcing your religion on everyone else" with being fucked up the arse. It's not actually difficult or painful to have a works do that happens at around the same time as Christmas (and Hanukah, and Diwali) but isn't called "a Christmas party".

@AllThePotatoesAreSinging First you suggest not inviting them, then you suggest it would be offensive to them. I wasn't suggesting not inviting them 🙄 The fact that so many people have failed to grasp the point is, as I say, surprising to me. As I say, I have worked with people who have explicitly stated that they found it offensive - the sheer volume of people here saying "well I wouldn't be offended so therefore it is impossible for anyone to be offended by this" is a bit overwhelming. I am not sure whether you think I'm lying that this happened, that they were lying for some reason, or you genuinely can't put yourself into someone else's shoes to imagine how they might feel at being told "well we're not celebrating your festival but you're required to celebrate ours"...

You are just making stuff up in your head and running with it now.

Keep it simple, get a few Christmas menus from restaurants that will do halal and is accessible and have a vote for the preferred option. Then just have a nice meal, people who want to drink can carry on after those who don't want to party can go home after the meal. The grumpy one doesn't need to come at all.
In my work we do it in the evening, usually a Friday.
DH's work do a lunch on a work day then afternoon off , some go for drinks some just go home.

No one, absolutely no one, has said it should be mandatory.

Why are you having to resort to making things up to defend your erasure of the word “Christmas” from Christmas festivities?

Because the OP wants to include all colleagues in a work social event? All Muslim people I've worked with have come to Christmas work dos and would have been upset to be excluded. Also a lot of British muslims do celebrate Christmas in some way

Alternatively, don't call it a Christmas party. As some Muslims would be offended at that.

Thats bonkers

The fact that you all bent over without a whimper is what surprises me. - really, it seems a bit extreme to me to compare "not forcing your religion on everyone else" with being fucked up the arse. It's not actually difficult or painful to have a works do that happens at around the same time as Christmas (and Hanukah, and Diwali) but isn't called "a Christmas party".

What part of cultural tradition don't you understand? Of course you were fucked and you've also drunk the kool aid from the sounds of it.

The Christmas party is held at Christmas usually before people take time off work for Christmas. You were forbidden from calling it a Christmas party and talking about Christmas in a Christian country.

If you were forcing people to go to Christmas mass, then I can understand the protest. I would protest at being forced to attend church. But you're usually talking about a few drinks and nibbles in the office. Gosh, how utterly offensive.

@WheresMySupportCat

Why did we never think of fish and chips

Genius !!

@LordEmsworth

I could understand people being offended if there was some measure of compulsion.
But if these issues are handled sensitively there is really no need for offence to be taken. Or you just ignore what's going on.

I was offended by several other things in my organisation where I was going against the grain. I just ignored it and went my own way.
On another level, I'm not a great fan of Indian food, but I always appreciated the effort that a man in my team went to bring in enormous boxes of home made samosas at Eid. I didn't have to eat them, but I could admire and appreciate the effort, take time to have a chat etc.
Its really not that hard

What am I making up please?

The point that so many people are failing to grasp is - as someone pointed out upthread - that no-one should be excluded from a work event. Organising a work event that you know someone will feel excluded from, whether because they don't drink, only eat halal food, use a wheelchair and can't get into the venue, or because they are uncomfortable with participating in a celebration of a religion they don't believe in, falls into the "exclusion" category. Saying "you can either compromise your beliefs, or not come", is not inclusion.

Just go out for a curry, somewhere that has level access including to toilets, and that sells soft drinks as well as alcohol, in December, with the people you work with, and have a nice time. And in the meantime, separately, do your Christmas shopping, plan your Christmas festivities, and give Christmas cards and Christmas presents to people who you know will be grateful for them. It's really not that bloody hard.

No one is excluded. If fact, the ONLY person who has hinted at excluding one particular religious group is you.
Christmas is the biggest celebration within our culture. If people are “offended” by that, the solution is to not attend the festivities, not to erase the culture of everyone else.

I’m so sorry that my two sentence reply was so difficult for you to comprehend.

I’ll try to simplify it even further.

No one has said the Christmas party should be mandatory. You seem to have completely fabricated this.

Saying "you can either compromise your beliefs, or not come", is not inclusion.

Interesting, because this is EXACTLY what you’re saying SHOULD happen.

@LordEmsworth

And what about excluding Christian people from their own festival by refusing to acknowledge what it is
Personally I would feel excluded by going for a curry.
As well as a team lunch my team always had a big night out at a club. Not my thing, don't drink, childcare etc
I didn't go, never felt excluded, loved seeing the photos afterwards and hearing the gossip