Right, I would like your honest opinions please. Go on, I can take it.

[Miaou]

OK, imagine you had a relative with four dcs and no money. You yourself are reasonably well off, as are every other member of your family. Your relative with four dcs declares that they are not buying any Christmas presents, just sending a letter and a photo of the kids. In return, they don't expect to receive presents either for themselves or their kids.

Would you feel:

• That they should at least send a token gift, even if it's a bit of tat from the pound shop?

• That they should make more of an effort and buy nice things for the kids of the family?

• That it doesn't really matter?

_ Or any other opinion?

Go on, be ruthless. I'm interested to know if I should be paranoid or not

DSS's mum has told me and DH that she hasn't bought us a xmas present this year because she is broke. I have one for her anyway - I told her I bought it before she told me she wasn't getting us one, and not to feel obliged to get us one. Miaou - do the same, buy presents for the kids, and just say you bought them ages ago. Don't make a big deal out of it.

Ditto Miaou - -10 the other morning, DP's nuts were clinking (apparently)

I think you are doing totally the right thing.

If he has any regard for you and your feelings he should wind his neck in.

To be honest I wrote a really long reply before reading the responses and thought I would check to see if you had given any more detail.

What I was going to say was secret alternative option whereby Father Christmas really visited their family through amazon and other internet ordering companies. I am sorry that I am not in a position to send you and your family some extra goodies

I am really heartened by this thread

Nice one Miaou. Total agreement with your sentiments.

I do get a bit sucked in...feel embarrassed about not being able to give presents...so I spend too much on them. But I usually have things from past sales or that I've been given and not wanted, that I resurrect for friends or their children. I had a nice set of wooden skittles hanging around from years ago, that I'd bought in a 'this is a bargain' moment, and my Dc's wouldn't enjoy. They have gone to one of my best mate's children, and I know she is strapped as I am, and told her they were waiting for a good home so not to reciprocate. I hope she doesn't, because she is the best friend I could wish for, has no money to spare, and has regularly delivered home made cakes, small gifts for Ds1 and generally been thoroughly BRILLIANT all year, including being there when my baby was born
I was glad to have something they might enjoy, really don't want anything back - mine have too much tat anyway!

I think Christmas is about so much more than money.

Haven't read thread, suspect you are the person described in the situation, and think you are very sensible and anyone who gets in a tizz about it can really piss off

yep, buy for kids ;)

Well done Miaou, like your style of posting!

May be hated for this, but its my opinion so here goes

I personally don't send pictures of my kids unless they are asked for by relatives as I feel it's presumptious of me to assume they want pictures of my kids.

Anyway, probably a different concept in the situation provided by you ie a substitute gift but does anyone else share my opinion?

Thanks for the post Miaou

I finally plucked up the courage this year to say to my family only buy for the dc's. Problem is i am fairly sure they will buy us all something, even though they haven't got that much more money than us.
I have still been feeling really guilty though.

JingleyJen - that's a very kind thought . I am very fortunate to have received gifts through MNSecretSanta both last year and this, so the kids will have lots to open on Christmas Day!

Cheeset, I do take your point about the photos. But the way I see it, if people are not interested then they will just bin it/ stick it to the back of the drawer; however all our elderly relatives dote on little kids so I'm sure they will appreciate a copy.

Shannaratinsel - well done you! I did find it hard last year, and this thread is proof that I still have a little "guilt wobble" this year. But once I made the decision I felt a huge weight lift from my shoulders and I feel so much better about the whole thing. Plus I will be able to pay my bills come January

You're all lovely

havent read your posts, but i would send THEm a gift voucher, can be anonomous and i WOULD NOT expect them to buy something even a cheap gift, she prob has felt bad enough saying she cant do it

I think a family photo is a lovely idea and I would be very grateful and understand their predicament. I would also make sure I got them nice presents but make sure they didn't feel they had to buy anything back.

I think they are being sensible but can I just say to all those who are saying 'buy them presents regardless etc', its sometimes very hard to be on the receiving end of other peoples' 'charity' for want of a better word, no matter how well intentioned.

My family has fallen on harder times recently and I have lost count of the number of times my (wonderful)friends have invited me out to dinner, to see a movie etc as 'their treat'. They are so generous to me and my kids, I don't know what I would do without them and they give with love and the best intentions, but sometimes its REALLY hard and I wish they wouldn't. Does that sound horrid? I am not in the least ungrateful - far from it - but its much easier to be the 'giver' than the one who receives.

i dont think 'presents' are a good idea, u a little gift voucher/card ith merry christmas on need not embaress anyone.

My sister's recently done this, miaou. Not quite for the same reasons. Her and dh have no kids, just had quite a bit of expense (by choice) recently. And they are still giving to our kids.

In your position, I would feel -

i) def buy a wee thing for the children, s'not hard
ii) a small gift (nnedn't be tat, could just be nice bottle of handwash for couple of quid, var useful) would still keep things jolly

responsible my arse

sorry, I am catching up on past threads now

that it doesnt really matter.

havent read the thread, so i'm sure what i am going to say has already been said.
it depends on the relative. are they using this as a guilt trip to get you to buy ther dc expensive gifts? because if so, theni would be furious. and definitly wouldnt get any gifts.
however, if i know that this person has self respect, then i would either comply withtheir wishes, or give their dc presents comparabel to what i would be giving all the cousins of a similar age.

ah. you are skint person.

well.

I am narked at sister. Am being honest

We tried to do similar, but got sucked into 'gift inflation' anyway.

Same as DrNortherner

I would feel that it doesn't matter at all if they give me a thing or not.

But if I were their well off relative I'd definitely give the family gifts just because I wanted to.

Pointydog, this is where I was at a few years ago. I had a very small budget for Christmas presents - £50 in total - and that was by cutting down on the amount of money we had for food! So on £50, even buying just for family kids, I had nine kids to buy for. I bought some very cheap presents, £1 to £2 each, but had to post them all too as I live nowhere near my rellies. All in all, came to just under £30. Add to that the cost of sending Christmas cards (homemade, but still had to pay for stamps), and I had less than £10 to spend on each of my dds (this was before the dses were born) - and out of that I had to conjour a main present and a stocking. To this day I don't know how I did it, but I do remember very clearly how utterly miserable I felt. I knew that each of the gifts I sent were a piece of rubbish that would last two minutes and be discarded in favour of all the other presents that each child got, and that my dds ended up with a £1 present for their main present and a stocking that was bulked out with individually wrapped pairs of knickers (which, funnily enough, is a tradition that I have kept up as the dd's love it! But not the point really, I felt shit about it). And what was the point? So that I didn't feel guilty? Well I did - I put social convention before my own kids.

A bottle of handwash at a couple of quid - but why? What is the point in buying something for someone that I can't afford to buy myself but they can easily afford for themselves? What would it achieve? If you say, well it's the thought that counts - well, I sent a long letter detailing what we have been up to this year, a photo of the children, and have wished them a very merry Christmas. That is thinking of them.

I wasn't trying to get at you, miaou. I only read the op, all the ins and outs weren't given re how many relatives and where they lived etc. I fired off a reply based largely on my reactions to my sister's recent emails on a similar subject.

You spell it all out like t hat and yes, it's perfectly understandable. I don't buy Christms presents for people I don't see at Christmas. I'm lucvky in that I only have a fairly small number of presents to buy.