Every. Single. Year.

[stinkingbishop]

And so it begins. DM asking what to buy for her DGCs, my DP, my DPILS. DPILs asking for ideas for the DGCs, me, THEIR OWN SON, my DM, my DB. DB making frantic calls on the 23rd from John Lewis. Eldest DC asking about everyone at about midnight on Christmas Eve. All the time no one telling me what they have bought the DGCs till the last minute so I don't know what to get from us because of potential duplication.

And then of course I think of presents from me for all of them. Presents which show LOVE, and INSIGHT, and the fact you've, you know, THOUGHT about someone throughout the year and what might make their life more pleasant.

But every year I need to think of a list four times the length it should be so I can carve them up for everyone. And then let's not forget the neighbours, the nursery staff, the babysitters, DB's new GF, the cleaner, bosses, DP's friends, my friends, all the people it would never occur to anyone else to think about. And don't get me started on the cards.

All that happens is the 10 millionth time I've emailed someone with 'why don't you get them...' they then ask 'and what about you', and I write 'oh, just a nice sit down and a cup of tea!' and so I end up with, I kid you not, a venetian blind cleaner from DM, which would be bad enough, but I DON'T HAVE VENETIAN BLINDS.

And then. AND THEN. She emails last night, bearing in mind I already have a pile of lovingly assembled gifts for her that I have been picking up throughout the year, to say, and I quote "you haven't asked about me. I don't want books or smellies or food or THINGS. I have had a lot of expenses with the car and the house, so maybe just some cash." I am tempted to get her a scratch and sniff recipe book.

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO GETS THE WHOLE FRIGGIN' POINT OF PRESENTS?

And breathe. In a peace and goodwill and holly-topped kind of way. Love her really .

Thank you for listening. That will be all .

I definitely help a lot of other people with their Christmas shopping.

My parents are good about presents. My Mum will ask me for help, and she and I go out for a look around shops etc. She usually buys clothes for DH and DB, and I can see why having me there helps. I'm far more likely to know what they'd wear than she would, as most women in their 70s don't get how most men in their 30s/40s would dress.

DM will also ask me to help her with presents for our kids. I don't mind at all. It's not like she'd like a list, but she does like to get them things they like. She'll ask me to let her know of stuff, and she'll go to toy shops or look on-line with me.

MIL on the other hand is a nightmare about presents. She wants a list. She will only buy from the list. I foolishly once thought that if I didn't put a list together, she'd come up with ideas herself. Oh the look on DSs face. She spent 100s on another grandchild for their birthday whose mother had produced a list (same age, and birthday was a few weeks before DSs), she spent 20euro (if that) on DS on a piece of tat. As she handed the gift she said to me 'Well you never gave me a list, so this is all I got.' - Happy birthday DS! So since then, I give a list. I do wish she cared more, and at least took some interest even if it was a thing of she was picking gifts with guidance from me but literally she just picks an amount she's going to spend, and picks the items that add up closest to that. It's so bad I've had to group things, as it happened once I'd put a Spiderman car, and a Spiderman figure on the list. She got the car, but no Spiderman to go in it. She picked something else that cost a few euro more, because it brought her to her set amount to spend. That said, at least I know that the kids are getting things they'll like and use. My one tip though is I only do the list after I've worked out what we're getting, so there's no risk of doubling up.

ETA: Just checked my voicemail, as I'd a missed call. It was DB ringing to see if there was anything I thought the kids might like for Christmas!

But every year I need to think of a list four times the length it should be so I can carve them up for everyone. And then let's not forget the neighbours, the nursery staff, the babysitters, DB's new GF, the cleaner, bosses, DP's friends, my friends, all the people it would never occur to anyone else to think about. And don't get me started on the cards.

'oh, just a nice sit down and a cup of tea!' and so I end up with, I kid you not, a venetian blind cleaner from DM

I do think you're being a bit of a martyr. You're complaining about it but you're still taking it on - you don't have to do this. The whole reason no one knows what to get anyone is because most of us don't need any presents at christmas and it is way too overblown. I know it's hard because people expect and insist on presents and if you fight that battle you will offend. But for that reason everyone gets into a huge tizz every year and a whole load of extra work falls on - guess who - women.

If you really want to stop this, you can. Send everyone an email saying you feel christmas has got a bit OTT and would they consider presents for kids only? If not, what about toning it down to a £5 limit and all presents to be consumables (so bottle of wine, chocs, bubble bath or whatever so that it gets used up and doesn't clutter up the house). If people ask what x wants, with the exception of very small children, say "ask them, here is their email address".

I have been working on this for a long time and at Christmas I now only get presents for my DP and DC, parents (though I'm trying to stop that and made it clear I don't want anything from them) one sibling and MIL. I do get the badgering from my mum and MIL and deal with it in as short order as possible. If someone asks me what I want because they really want to get me something, I say something I want - I'd love a bottle of wine, bath stuff or a pair of boot socks (because I really would like and use those things). Or you can say "I really don't need anything, if you must I would like an Oxfam goat".

Christmas can still be great without all this present angst. In fact it is better.

I refuse to be the gatekeeper of Christmas present ideas.

^^This!!

you don't HAVE to do it all - though I can totally understand why you want to/feel you have to. But then it takes the shine off Christmas, really, doesn't it?!

The absolute worst people to buy for are those (like my gran) who insist they neither need nor want anything, but don't let you off the hook by saying 'look, please don't buy me anything', or by suggesting a charity donation in their name.

Thus putting the onus on you to magically think of a gift for them that is so thoughtful and obscure they don't know themselves what it is.

Either step back from exchanging gifts, or make it easy to buy gifts. You have to do one or the other.

If you don't want to be gatekeeper of gift giving thsn fair enough, but don't then complain when others don't know what your kids are into or what they already have.

I was always given gift tokens by more distant family, they were my favourite gifts. Who knows better than me what I want? We all used to love seeing envelopes under the tree. Happy days :)

I do get your point and I feel your pain, but, but, but I actually wish MIL would bloody ask so dc get what they actually want and no duplications. She won't even tell me. "So it's a nice surprise". No it's not. dd is 3! How do I cope with her disappointment if she gets duplication. It happened when she was 1, so not a big deal but we bought her her first tea set and so did BIL because that family never talk.

Amazon and John Lewis lists all the way - I prefer it from both sides. In fact all the family use them for the kids. Avoids duplication and mountain of breakable plastic, able to get them what they have been interested throughout the year and balance it out a bit with craft stuff, books etc.

I get the whole idea of a considered present, but in my experience it rarely works out well - especially for kids. I certainly don't have the time to do this anymore, I do however put the effort into family activities and getting together at this time of year.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very grateful to the time and effort she goes into for them, it's just you know, why waste your money getting something they already have ?

I have three main sections of family:

MINE is perfect. They ask for ideas not specific things. So you can say 'a big fluffy dark coloured jumper' and get something you do want, but that they have chosen and thought about you. And their requests are similar.

Half of DH's want specific website links/argos numbers and their Christmas lists are utterly specific too, or cash. They are extremely generous but of course we are extremely generous back and as I don't have expensive tastes it all seems a bit meaningless to me.

The other half of DH's seem to go out of their way to find the crappest of all crap gifts. I try and make sure we go to their house for swapping so DC can unwrap their toys there so its not my house filled with moondough

You don't seriously get presents for adult friends, neighbours, bosses(!) etc etc do you? If so you need to drastically cut the list, or at most just a box of chocolates or something each!

Also if you have a lot of adults in your family and it is becoming a pain, instead of just getting each other more clobber that you don't really need and can't think of ideas for, how about starting a secret-santa thing so you only get/give one or two presents each? Then it is much easier on everyone, and you can also ask the people involved to make suggestions for their OWN presents as part of the process, rather than everyone coming to you.

The whole idea of "lovingly chosen individual presents" only works IMO if a) each person only has a few people to buy for (so you have the time/energy to do that), and b) everyone involved has the same ideas about presents. Clearly not everyone in your circle does, you can't change that so will just need to roll with it and either give suggestions, stop the presents, or accept whatever you end up with.

How tedious.

My big beef is the elderly relative (you know who you are) who gives us a dirty £10 note the week before Christmas and asks us to get something for the children and have the gifts wrapped and under the tree so she can give them to the children on Christmas day.

Still it gives my christmas moaning a certain chiming familiarity.

My Mother gets positively aggressive about what to get for my DC.

Mum: Tell me what to get them.

Me: Erm....what about those hair straighteners DD wanted?

Mum: That's not a toy!

Me: Yes but she's 10 and there's hardly any toys on her list this year...it's all laptop, soap and hair stuff.

Mum: I WANT TO GET A TOY!!!

Me: She wanted hair things...

Mum: TOY!!!!!!!

I, also, feel your pain.

DF expects a list for me every year, and also ideas for my DH. If list is not provided then there is mild huffing about how disorganised I am. Said list is not allowed to include any practical items, no matter how much I might want or need them. Things like sewing machines are insufficiently 'frivolous', and I will end up with no sewing machine but instead a hideous sparkly necklace which I wouldn't be seen dead in.

I never have more than 5 'ideas for me', and these have to go a long way because I also have to give my parents and sister-in-law ideas for me via DH.

DM, thank God, is creative in a hit-and-miss kind of way which I appreciate, and DB scorns Christmas lists having had to put up with the same list palaver with Dad.

Then I go away and think of creative, thoughtful, useful presents for everyone.

It drives me nuts.

I think it's really rude to ask what to buy someone. And it's ruder still to ask someone to get something from a list.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a lovely Christmas letter containing cash. I remember getting an exquisitely wrapped Christmas letter each year from my grandmother, containing crisp new notes. I still have the accompanying letters and I very much enjoyed either saving or spending the cash.

Ah, clawhands, your mum and my dad are of the same school.

The whole point about a gift is that it must be something that you want to give. Otherwise it's just funding.

Re sewing machines, alpha?

Poor you. Just give people vouchers and say that's what you'll be doing from now on. I don't mind buying for children but am not running round getting gifts for grown up people who are perfectly capable of going into a shop and choosing their own. I do get the odd gift for a person I like. Which isn't many.

We have little extended family so 90% of any gifts my children receive are from us. There is no adult gift exchanging.

There was a bit of an incident when ds was 4 and SIL sent him a Playmobil Pirate Ship for his Christmas gift. Which was kind and generous, but we had also bought it as his main gift from 'Santa' (he'd been asking and asking). She had a huge hissy fit and said we'd have to 'take ours back' as she'd already wrapped the box. We explained we couldn't as we had bought it 2nd hand from Gumtree (we are pretty poor so many gifts are sourced this way). From then on, she has sent cash, the day before/ on the day.
MIL sends cash, the day before and says: 'thank you for doing my shopping for me!'.
I am disabled and have no car and live 15m from nearest small shops and 35m from nearest big ones. I can buy online, once the money has been through my account and I've paid the delivery charge.

I am not ungrateful for the gifts - it is nicer for my children to think that Granny has remembered them than that she hasn't - but it rather misses the 'spirit of gift giving'. My mum tends to send a big box of charity shop tat. Sometimes it's great (often, actually, she must spend hours upon hours sifting through for them) but sometimes not. I tell the children it's a 'lucky dip' and they quite enjoy that.

The children send pictures, home made shortbread etc but usually don't get a thank you

Oh I am SO with you. The whole present-giving thing at Christmas just seems so messed up - the stress, the expense, the emotional pressure for STUFF we don't need or want. I find myself pleading with the children to think of something - anything - I can tell their grandparents to buy as the phonecalls/emails get more shrill and persistent. The truth is they pretty much have all the stuff they want. Why create a need for more?

I don't think it's that long ago that most people really would just have got one or two parcels from their nearest and dearest, containing low budget things they needed, or which would make them happy. Every year I fantasise about turning the clock back to those times, but I have no idea how to go about it without massively offending people. I think the Christmas juggernaut has been set in motion now and there's no stopping it.

AlphaBravo - that's the thing - my kids would LOVE a beautiful handwritten letter (real communication) with even a few coins in from Granny. Or a modest gift granny has chosen (but bothered to check not duplicating). But £ to parents days before (with written gift tag 'from Granny' included) is not so easy to turn into 'thoughtful gift from Granny'.

Mind, they do like to 'use' gifts to express their feelings, my lot:

Like the grubbiest £5 note I have ever seen that I got for my 40th from MIL in one of her 'displeased' phases. Or the £2.50 charity shop top from my own Mother for the same day. Which would have been fine, but for the stain on it and the fact it was 6 sizes too big. H asked me if I would like a new kettle this year.

You have to laugh!

I actually love buying presents for people - the thinking about them and coming up with something which would be just right - it's the stress caused by other people leaning on me for ideas that annoys me.

And I agree that 'just one or two parcels from nearest and dearest' which could be low-budget items would be lovely. Sometimes the presents I buy are expensive, sometimes they're virtually free. It would be nice to feel it didn't matter which was which as long as they were right. As it is I often end up having to think of several things for someone if the first thing I thought of was 'budget'.

DC (5&8) spotted a ToyRUs brochure that came free with a paper & spent a good hour this weekend circling all the things they'd like. I've told them to write them up as a list (good handwriting practise ) then we will cross off a few bits that are either unsuitable (£400 electric car DS2 ) or we will get for them & anything left will get sent on to relatives if they ask for ideas. I've told my siblings to coordinate with parents to avoid duplicates & stop me being middle-man and DH & I do our own list.

I keep a running 'present ideas' note open on my iPhone throughout the year & add if they mention anything or I spot something I like so by christmas I've usually got a pretty long list of ideas for everyone which makes it so much easier (who's laughing now DH )

Oh clawhands my mum is like that with me, which is why I'm trying to put a stop to it.

"What do you want for Christmas/"

"Well really I would rather not exchange prersewnts."

"No no you can't NOT HAVE A PRESENT, what do you want?"

"OK I would love a pair of these gloves thanks"

"Well I don't like those so I'm not getting you that. You can get them for yourself. Now what do you want?"

It makes me feel so miserable and awkward to have to go through this. It's so clearly not about me, why the hell bother?

That's it, Adam. Last year I told my DM that DD2 wanted a particular skirt. Apparently they didn't exactly fit her budget, so they came with lots of tat little things - bath fizzers and earrings and novelty biros etc - that really took the shine off the skirt that she was so thrilled with.

And unwrapping all that Stuff takes such a lot of time! We have 3 DCs, and often the light is fading and the day is almost done by the time the pile of tat bath fizzers, earrings and novelty biros have been unwrapped. Gratitude fatigue has set in long ago, and I'm left wishing we could have done something nice with the day (like go out for a walk. One year, I swear, we'll get around to going out for a proper, lovely walk...) and shifted the emphasis of Christmas away from Acquiring More Stuff.

(Of course, the worst thing about all of this is not being able to talk about it without sounding like a spoiled, ungrateful witch.)