The Rapture?

[HootyMcBoobys]

Hello fellow Christian mumsnetters.

Have any of you noticed the mass of videos on social media claiming that the Rapture is about to happen in September?
What do you think about this, and do you believe in the Rapture in general? Would you welcome it now, or be afraid, especially if you knew that friends or family have not found God and would be left behind?

Obviously there have been many times this has been predicted in the past, and those have all been wrong, but I can't recall there ever being so many testimonies about this before. Apparently there have been many weird things going on astronomically, earthquakes, etc etc.

Do you think we are living in the end times?

I don't claim to be a Bible expert but some say that Rapture is not even in the Bible and was invented by man.

Thoughts?

I have not heard of it online, but the signs before this predicted in the Bible and not fully there. The rapture I believe is in (Revelations 20:6).

I do believe that the Bible is the word of God inspired. I think it would be helpful if Revelations would have by them if it is symbolic or literal. Some people struggle with this chapter for that reason.

What do I think, I think some people are in heaven for sure like Saints. The Bible them praying for Saints for earth etc and attending to prayers and miracles have been attributed to some. The book of Revelation shows the saints worshipping God, singing hymns, playing instruments, making requests to Christ to avenge their martyrdom, and offering prayers for the saints on earth (Rev. 4:10, 5:8, 6:9-11). I think some will get to heaven immediately and some will be called for like at the first resurrection to go onto their destiny to Heaven or the New Earth which God decides.

Matthew 24 is a good chapter to read for the timeline of end of times.

Hi @HootyMcBoobys I believe in the rapture of the Church. The word 'rapture' comes from the Latin 'rapturo' which was a later translation of the Greek word 'harpazo', meaning 'caught/snatched up'.

The main reference to this event can be found in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18:

Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.

This is seen as separate to Jesus' second coming.
Some Christians believe Jesus' return to earth will coincide with Sukkot - the Feast of Tabernacles (early October) and mark the beginning of His thousand year reign (millennial kingdom). There's a great deal more to it, but Sukkot represents God dwelling with man. Likewise, some Christians believe the rapture will occur during Rosh Hashanah - the Feast of Trumpets, in part due to the link with the 'last trump'. The Hebrew word for feasts means 'appointed times'. Jesus has already symbolically fulfilled all the Jewish spring feasts.

I believe it will happen before the tribulation period. Yes, I worry for those left behind, but there will still be an opportunity to turn to God (see tribulation saints) during this time. It will come at a heavy cost though as they will be martyred for their faith.

While it's true that no man knows the day or the hour, Jesus did ask us to be wary and look for signs of his return. Matthew 24 is a good example of this.

@HootyMcBoobys Hello fellow Christian mumsnetters.

Greetings 🙂

Do you think we are living in the end times?

I think we are definitely heading that way with increasing speed: people wanting to do it their way, mocking God; governments and institutions removing God; increasing immorality; breakdown of God’s model for family; porn influencing how we dress, our ‘shame’ of what is a normal body, persuading people that it is good to emulate pre-pubesdence, our young people who get a skewed idea of what is respectful and normal; using abortion as birth control.

Then there is all the increasing fighting and wars and ‘rumours’ of wars. The desire for ‘one world order’ and only this last few days talk of implanting AI chips into human brains. Man playing god with manipulation of DNA and creating life in laboratories. Seeming increase in false prophets, false gods, false teachers and preachers, ‘pick and mix’ religion, et al.

Increasing numbers of earthquakes unusual weather patterns, etc. ‘Pestilence’ and disease impacting world-wide - the threat seemingly increasing. Obscene amounts of money being paid to some, enough to end world-wide poverty, and yet others living in abject poverty. The gluttony of the West and obesity being the biggest threat to health and yet others starving.

Some things have always been so to a lesser degree, and maybe it is because with instant news we are more aware. However it is getting worse.

Regarding the Rapture, it is interesting to read people’s interpretation of Revelation, but tbh it’s not something I spend much time contemplating. I just rest on God’s Promises and the hope I will one day hear a ‘well done true and faithful servant’.

I tend to think a lot of the rapture and tribulation stuff is overexaggerated. Every generation since Paul thinks they're living in the end times, and here we are 2000 years later.
Being brought up in a con evo church, we were taught that the rapture would happen, then there would be seven years tribulation before Christ returned. I think it's scare tactics, a lot of it. The aussie fella Barry Smith used to preach on it a lot - I had a tape of one of his sermons and it was all about end times, the mark of the beast, one world government and all sorts.
I do believe Christ will return at some point, but I also think Revelation is not to be taken literally. It was someone's dream. I don't think it will happen exactly as laid out in the eschatological passages in the bible. There are more than 144,000 christians in heaven already, for one thing.....

If you haven't a clue what 'The Rapture' is, then you're probably Catholic like me! I had to Google it!

Matthew 24:36 "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only".

No-one knows the date of the rapture/second coming - trying to guess it is fruitless! However people will be people and will try to guess, even though they will be wrong!

Yes I do believe in a Rapture but it will happen when it happens. We are to be about God's work for us until then, not constantly staring at the sky, if that makes sense.

Also, yes we are living in the 'end times' as they began when WW1 and WW2 started - 'nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom' means world war. (Matt. 24:7). Matthew 24 is generally a good place to start for reading about the events in the end times, but it must be read alongside other accounts such as in Luke, Daniel, Revelation. It's not an easy subject and there are many different views of how things will be.

Personally I believe in an approaching 7 year Tribulation and prior to that the rapture of the Church. However I am prepared to be wrong about that. However all the YouTube hype I just turn a blind eye to as it's about clicks and not much else!

There are more than 144,000 christians in heaven already, for one thing.....

@Catinabeanbag It's not about Christians though. I think you may have been confused by what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach on the subject.

Taking the futurist approach, there will be a remnant of 144,000 Jews, with 12,000 taken from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. They will have divine protection during the last half of the great tribulation. They will recognise Jesus as Messiah and bring many people to faith in Christ.

I do believe Christ will return at some point, but I also think Revelation is not to be taken literally. It was someone's dream. I don't think it will happen exactly as laid out in the eschatological passages in the bible. There are more than 144,000 christians in heaven already, for one thing.....

I believe that Revelation was the divine revelation of what is to come to John from Christ, and that it can be interpreted using other parts of the Bible. I think one of the main things to concentrate on is actually Ch 2 and 3 where the 7 churches receive letters or report cards, if you will, from Jesus Himself. We should read those carefully and see how our own Church measures up, because they will come under judgement.

The 144,000 are Jewish witnesses who will preach the gospel worldwide during the Tribulation, it isn't the number of Christians in heaven.. Right now there must be millions of Christians already there, if you consider the past 2,000 years!

Studying Revelation is fascinating, and it's the only book of the Bible that comes with a blessing for reading it!

Just want to encourage those of you who haven't read Revelation or think perhaps it's not that relevant or is too weird to go read it and study it. Remember everything in our Bible is God-breathed and is there for our edification. Revelation was first given to Christ who gave it to John. Clue is in the first verse: "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servantsa the things that must soon take place."

Who is 'him'? Jesus Christ. So God gave Jesus this Revelation, and Jesus showed it to John in a vision. It's largely a prophetic book of the things to come.

I highly recommend Chuck Missler's series on Revelation, he's easy to listen to and his lectures contain loads of information.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRj8AJuzeJRw-lKZ8nJOwYOn5QPdSCIvU

My bad - got the 144,000 thing wrong. It's been a while!

'Nation will rise against nation' could mean any war; doesn't have to be a world war. In which case any conflict could be seen as being part of the end times.
Paul thought Christ was coming again soon, hence his caution against getting married. Martin Luther thought he was living in the end times. There is nothing new under the sun. We do not know the day or the hour when Christ will come back.

No, 'nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.' is a rabbinic idiom for world war. Jesus precedes this comment with "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come" which shows that in and of themselves, smaller wars are not a sign, but world war is. Remember Jesus is talking to his Jewish disciples, so they will understand this reference.

"Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains." So the beginning of the 'birth pangs' are these things - world war, famines and earthquakes. This is just the beginning, but WW1 and WW2 show the beginning of the 'end times' - which could of course be quite extended.

There's a song about the word Rapture in 1981 by Blondie.

This is a bit more in depth but presented in a simple, visual format @HootyMcBoobys if you're interested.

Also, Sukkot this year runs from 6th October to 13th October. Some people think the asteroid Apophis which will pass very close to earth on April 13, 2029 is the Wormwood of Revelation. If that is the case, according to Revelation, it will happen in the middle of the Tribulation period. Counting back 3.5 years from that date brings you to 13th October 2025 which would mark the beginning of the Tribulation. This just happens to be the last day of Sukkot this year. Coincidence? Probably, but we know:

“There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. (Luke 21:25)

&

“When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’ and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.
(Matthew 16:2-3)

So I'll be keeping my eyes and ears open.

@VincitVeritasI the beginning of the Tribulation occurs when the Antichrist signs the 7 year peace treaty with Israel. That's very clearly sign-posted in the book of Daniel, ch.9:27

And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.

For those who don't know, a 'week' here is 7 years. Half a week is thus 3.5 yrs. The signing of the peace treaty with Israel immediately begins the Tribulation. There are other events which also must take place prior to the Tribulation, nine in total. These are (in sequence):

1. 'Nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom' - world war(s). This has taken place already.
2. Re-establishment of Israel - happened in 1948.
3. Jerusalem is to be under Jewish control. (this has been fulfilled)
4. Northern Alliance invasion of Israel (also known as the Ezekiel war) - yet to happen.
5. One world government
6. Ten kingdoms
7. Rise of the Antichrist
8. A period of peace and false security
9. The seven year covenant (with Israel).

Numbers 4 to 9 have yet to happen. There are other events but the sequence of them isn't known. These are:

1. Total blackout.
2. Return of Elijah
3. The Third Temple is built

Personally I think we are still some way off the start of the Tribulation, given those things that must be fulfilled, however I do think that once the Ezekiel war takes place then the rest of the events could happen in quick succession.

@GentleSheep

the beginning of the Tribulation occurs when the Antichrist signs the 7 year peace treaty with Israel.

I fully agree 🙌It sounds like you're a dispensationalist too.

Also with points 1, 2 and 3.

My understanding is that the Gog and Magog war will happen while Israel is enjoying a short time of 'peace and safety' which is achieved by the peace deal with the Antichrist. This would place it at the beginning of the Tribulation period. The invasion will be led by Russia, in alliance with Iran and Turkey (mainly). As I'm sure you know, this is different from the war of Armageddon, directly preceding Christ's return.

After this time numbers 5,6 & 7 will happen very rapidly when the Beast kingdom comes into full force.

I believe Elijah, along with Enoch (who both never died) will return as the two witnesses described in Revelation 11.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'total black out'?

A third temple in Jerusalem is definitely a necessity, but again I don't think this will be possible before the 7 year covenant.

Could this happen by October? I'm not sure, but there have been recent attempts at a peace deal with the middle east and talk of a two state solution.

Regardless, nothing needs to happen before the Rapture and we could be called to home at any time.

Yes I am, I don't usually mention it as being a Dispensationalist in the UK is unusual, I think! Nor do I normally mention the Rapture, like you I'm Pre-Trib. Nice to meet another Dispensationalist!

Total blackout = no light! Seriously there will apparently be 5 blackouts starting with one prior to the Tribulation and the rest at various points during the Tribulation - no light whatsoever from the Sun, Moon or stars.

Re the Gog Magog war it will take 7 years for Israel to clear up all the deserted equipment left behind in the mountains and bury the dead. So logically it must happen pre-Trib because in the second part of the Tribulation the Jewish people will have to flee from Israel due to the breakdown of the covenant with the Antichrist, which would mean the war must start at least 3 or 4 years prior to the Tribulation starting, which I think makes sense.

I thoroughly recommend the book 'Footsteps of the Messiah' by Arnold Fruchtenbaum for a detailed explanation of the prophetic events to come.

On the basis that it's very clear in the Bible that no one will know the time except the Father, I can pretty much guarantee it won't happen in September if people are saying it will.

However I'd really appreciate it if he could come now and shut up the Karaoke party that's been going on since mid-afternoon. Either that or send some angels to give them some voice lessons because, oh boy, they need them if they're let anywhere near a microphone ever again.

Lol @MargaretThursdaythat must be awful, you have my sympathy.

Thanks @GentleSheep I'll definitely have a look at the book - it's a lot to get your head around isn't it?! And wonderful to finally meet someone on the same page, even if it is only online. Maranatha x

@VincitVeritasI Yes it's definitely a lot to understand! Can I DM you?

It's a literal 7 year Tribulation. The Bible makes it clear there's 7 years left of Israeli time left the 70th week, I think? Kicks off with the signing of a 7 year peace treaty between Israel and many..(the Palestinians? Maybe) it will be the week of Jacob's Trouble.

Daniel 9:27 "And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”"

This refers to the Antichrist who will make a strong covenant with 'the many' i.e. the leadership of Israel, for one week which is 7 years. At the half way point (3.5 years) the Antichrist will break the covenant and stop the Temple sacrifices and offerings (the Third Temple will have been built earlier on). An image/idol of the Antichrist will be set up in the Temple and the Antichrist will declare himself God.

Of course, that would be lovely. 👍

I really can’t believe what I’m reading in these posts, but keep going. I’ll settle in for the entertainment

Are you a Christian?

How would you interpret the book of Revelation? @Mydoglovescheese. An interesting fever dream of Johns?