Christmas and paganism why?

[Justmerach]

I have been wondering about this and so am posting this questions as I would like to read peoples opinions. I might have known the question to this but cannot remember today for sure.
Why do people link Christmas to paganism and say like they are not buying a Christmas tree for example.

I am a Christian and I do mark the event thinking that perhaps may not have been born exactly on that day, but it is a symbolic marking. I am marking the gift of the Lord that God gave us into the world. Who atoned for our sins.
Jesus brought into the world. Christmas tree are sparkly as such as such can some of that lightness.
I like to do some Biblical themed things around that time. I know the pitfalls and used like a commercial event. Surely it is what you make of it in your heart.
With Dwhali we mark light. In Norway the festival of lights a few days before Christmas. So where is disputes for Christians. Ok, many have walked from God but we are all free to live our lives as want. We await Jesus return as Christians but we know when what his life meant.

So a quick 101 from someone who has knowledge as well. I would like an answer about the lights and Christmas tree a tradition from Norway I think.
Thank you

Early Christians stole the festival from pagans, who would bring greenery into their homes, light fires and party/feast around the winter solstice.

Fundamentalist Christians/JWs don’t celebrate Xmas because a) the bible doesn’t instruct them to and b) most of what you consider Christian celebrations aren’t.

See also Easter.

Xmas was plonked on the Winter Solstice celebrations. At the darkest time of the year, people were obviously attracted to lights (candles, etc) to brighten things up.

I did also read that we feast at this time because it had reached the point of year where food was starting to get scarce so animals were slaughtered as they would not be able to feed them into the colder months of the year when fodder was more scarce.

The Spring Equinox where Easter was plonked has always been a time of new beginnings and nature starting to rise from the winter months.

You need to listen to the History for Atheists podcast on this, pet, very enlightening.

See also Easter 🤣🤣🤣

Scripture doesn’t tell us to celebrate Hanukkah either- but our Lord Jesus did!
(John 10:22-23)

I don’t have an issue with having a Christmas tree in my house unless I was actually worshipping it. That’s sin and that’s where I draw the line.

Gave it a quick skim - biggest word salad I’ve seen this year and very little proof of anything.

There are sites that “prove” the earth is flat…..

It was an excellent example of Change Management, they wanted people to become Christians so instead of changing their behaviour because who wants to get rid of a festival and feast on dark winter nights they change the reason for the festival.

Jesus was actually born at the end of September wasn't he in terms of that's when shepherds were on the hills with their flock.

I guess without the pagan basis for Christian celebrations you end up as a puritan or JW.

I seem to remember reading a theory that having a 9 month gap between Easter and Christmas was relevant when they were coming up with the dates- something to do with everything starting where it ends, if Jesus died in March he must have been conceived in March. I think that would have appealed to the early church theologians.

Thank you all for your views.

Light as well God is our light and our Father. Jesus as I said gave us light as well.
My Christmas is very at core about the true spirit as well.

My Christmas tree is white and full of light.

The Bible really will not tell what festive days to have. For the Saints have many feast days as well. We are at liberty to I think with moderation as well.

Keep well though as well as it has been a hard year for some as wel and I wish you a year ahead with the peace of Christ.

I am non demontional and disciple and beliver of God, it is the body of Christ which we all are a part of well.

Fundamentalist Christians have a huge fear of paganism and the devil.

Fundamentalist Christians do not celebrate Christmas because it is not, and has never actually been, a Christian Celebration. It's almost universal for humans to brighten up the winter with a big party and you will find examples across the Northern Hemisphere. Saturnalia. Kwanzaa. Hannukah. Diwali. That's why so many people say "Happy Holidays!" now, not because anyone hates "Christmas" but because there's a whole bunch of other holidays around the same time and the person you are speaking to might not celebrate the same one as you.

When the church took control of Western Europe they did their very best to stamp out the old pagan solstice rituals but it turned out people were very attached to Yuletide. So in the end they gave up and stuck a new badge on it, the customs, such as bringing greenery indoors, drinking and eating far too much and holing up with your family for a few days, stayed the same, but the justification changed.

I am non demontional and disciple and beliver of God, it is the body of Christ which we all are a part of well.

not all.

Is just me that thinks that “Christian Mumsnetters” is just merely another ‘philosophy’ debating page? I don’t see this happening on the other ‘religious’ pages. I would have hoped that at least some respect would be shown towards our Biblical beliefs and our faith on this page, rather than the same old, same old that we see elsewhere. I guess it was too much to hope for.

Re the opening post, I just don’t buy into ( scuse the pun) of all the commercial money-grabbing greed that has claimed the label “Xmas” ( shudder!). It saddens me to see posts from folk moaning and complaining that they’d rather be in their own little bubble, for just the one day of the year, when it is supposed to be about peace and love and forgiveness and families being together in all their weird and unique complexity. So no, apart from a lovely nativity scene and some hand made things, there is nothing of mass produced ‘stuff’, here. The best gifts of all are those of planned time with friends and loved ones because ‘time’ is something none of us can buy and is the most precious and priceless and valuable thing we can have.

I really don't want "Christian Mumsnetters" to become another space of debate for thise that just want to be disrespectful of our beliefs.

So far, I thought we were doing so well, but this thread is reverting to the usual dismissive stuff. It makes me sad.

Fundamentalist Christians do not celebrate Christmas because it is not, and has never actually been, a Christian Celebration.

What is the point in making such an obviously false statement? Of course there are lots of wintertime festivals, and the date of Christmas, along with some of the traditions, have been adopted from that. It doesn't follow that Christmas has never been a Christian celebration. A cursory look at the beliefs and history around, you know, Christian celebrations of Christ's birth would tell you that. Just because you ascribe other meanings to things it doesn't mean they can't also be authentically Christian, btw. And you know who gets to decide that? Christians.

And while fundamentalists who don't celebrate it are well within their rights not to, they don't reflect the vast majority of Christians, past and present, in this respect.

And by the way, this is the Christian board. Not sure if you noticed that.

I totally agree.
This board was meant to be
“ primarily for the use of Christian Mumsnetters. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful.”

Those seeking theological debates have a board -
Philosophy/religion forum.

Well said 👏🏻👏🏻

Various parts of modern day Christmas have their roots in earlier paganism

• The tradition of giving gifts dates from the early Christian church when they decided to celebrate the Roman Saturnalia as the birth of Christ. Saturnalia was celebrating the age of Saturn- which was an age of peace and abundance. Hence the Peace on Earth, and Good will to all sentiment within it plus did I mention the giving of gifts? Many Romans converted to Christianity thinking of Christ as Saturn returning as promised for a new age of peace and abundance.

• The Christmas tree as pp have stated was grudgingly adopted from Yuletide pagan celebrations as Christianity spread north in Europe. Pretty much because the peasantry were stubbornly not giving up their old pagan ways and priests performance appraisals were based on souls saved if they wanted a chance at a bishop mitre or cardinal cap. You see similar struggles with Greek Orthodox Church when the Russian Tsar decided to convert all mother Russia to Christianity too- resulting in Russian Orthodox Church and its quirks as well - Icons being one example.

It’s not bad that there are preChristian echos in the way Christian religious holidays are celebrated. Most religions adopt from or branch off from earlier religions.

The Christmas tree is a pretty thing in a corner of my sitting room . It symbolises nothing. Ditto the wreath, pudding etc.

Christmas is when we, as Christians, celebrate the birth of our Lord, Jesus.

If there is a divine truth that we catch glimpses of or which is revealed to us, it’s unsurprising that it’s found in other religions as well.

I would think that it testifies to universal truth that it’s sprinkled across different religions.

The history of Christianity is endlessly fascinating. Did you know the depiction of Christ, angels, saints, & Virgin Mary with a golden halo 😇 has its roots in ancient Zoroastrianism? And that Muslims also show halos in the exact same way?

That showing wings on Christian and Muslim angels come from the Zoroastrian Faravahar symbol?

Before Christianity spread west, it spread EAST from the holy land, forming the Syriac church and so much of the symbology are echos of Zoroastrianism which originated in Iran.

The story of Noah comes from the Eridu Genesis epic of ancient Assyrian religion…which the Jewish tribes adopted (Abraham lived in Ur for a bit) while editing it into a monotheistic story and then passed on to Christianity!

It is astounding how much has endured for millennia in how humans remember, think of and depict holiness and the divine.

I'm pagan and the questions I can answer have been answered.

I just want to say, how each person celebrates is personal.and if you love festive trees then go for it - specially if you have pretty lights for it because yes, light is such an important part of your faith, as it is for diwali, and many of us with our candles or bonfires or fireworks.

People say Christmas wasn't about santa, but when you look at where the story of St Nick comes from, he was a childless man who made and distributed toys and gifts to children and others, purely to bring them joy. To me that's a super christian thing, selfless and giving.

If you look at each different religion, each one can be tied to the others somewhere. Put the tree up, enjoy it and don't let anyone tell you it's wrong :)

Our Christmas traditions are a blend of Christianity and the ancient pagan Yuletide festival celebrating the winter solstice. Early Christians grafted the Nativity onto the solstice feast to make it more accessible and appealing to pagans who they wanted to convert.

So aspects of Christmas like bringing evergreens into the house, lighting candles and fires, wassailing, feasting on puddings, roast meats, ales and wine all have their traditions in pagan rituals.

I love the pagan rituals and include several of them. I love the Christian honouring of Christ's birth and celebrate that too.

I have reported one or two posts as not being in keeping with this board. Maybe it’s because this board appears in Active Discussions that it attracts the ‘same old, same old’? 🤷

Anyway, back to the topic, don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the prettiness of dressed trees, lights and tinsel, etc, it’s just that, for me, I made the decision to disengage with the corporate greed and gluttony that’s become ‘Xmas’ (shudder!), and respond to all that with a ‘bah, humbug’ 🤪. Again, just for me, although it is important to celebrate our Messiah’s birth, my main celebration is His sacrifice and resurrection.

Hear, hear.