My four children have measles.

[Spidermama]

I'm almost at the end of it now.

My 7 year old got it first and was ill throughout half term. The other three have just had the week off school with it and are still loafing around on the sofas at the tail end.

We've lived like vampires in darkened rooms.
During the worst days (probably about 2 days per child) I had to carry them upstairs to the toilet, hold bottled water to their mouths to get them to drink, and DS2 didn't eat anything for four whole days.

We're on the home stretch now and they just need fattening up. It has been a very bonding, intense experience and I'm really glad they have now got natural, lifelong immunity.

I hesitated before starting this thread. I have talked about my childrens measles on the vax thread but I wondered if I could have a measles thread which didn't turn into a vax debate. I also thought the subject deserves a thread of it's own because it's a really big deal for me.

None the less this is such a full on, eminal parenting moment for me, I would hate to let it pass without sharing it with MN. It would feel somehow wrong, like concealing stuff from my family almost.

So DS3 bounced back very quickly. He was flat out and barely able to whisper one day - the next je was out on the trampoline in full gold cape superhero gear. DD1 is also bouncing back nicely. DS2 and DS4 are a bit slower but showing improvement by the hour.

DH is away by the way so I'm here on my own.

Extremely smug, ill informed,self satisfied.

Glad they've all come through it OK Spidermama

it was spidermama

emile, who?
Are you on the right thread?

yes kids have complications but most don't

lockets, no, one was local and one was a friend of a Canadian relative. Tragic.

I worked with Deaf people for a few years too, and many of them had become deaf via measles as kids.

I would never deliberately expose one of my children (or anyone elses) to measles, which as everyone has said can be very serious; and at the same time I think its absolutely up to the individual re the vax/no vax decision. If my child had auto-immune issues, or my family a history of reacting to jabs, I have no idea what I would do - and wouldn't dream of judging anyone else in those shoes.

Nickytwoshoes, I'm so sorry about your Dad's son, and about your Dad, both

No, lockets, a few years ago for both.
Devastation for both families very much current tho

Oh yes you would Riven, sadly

I thought the op's attitude was great, why should she not be proud.

very well done spidermama!!!

The risks in home births are to their own babies. The risks of non-vaccination are to other people's babies/children. That is the difference: you are entitled to take such risks as you choose on behalf of your own family (possibly). Not for other people.

Riven- I think you/one do get that! Usually it's quite subtle -"I wouldn't forgive myself if anything went wrong!" type comments- subtext: you are a mad fool with more regard for your own comfort than your baby's wellbeing, which completely overlooks hte fact that a) homebirth is never a decision taken lightly, b) most people would not choose hb if there were any suggestion that something may be amisss, and c) more damaged babies occur in hospital than at home, making homebirth statistically safer than hospital as well. I'm not sure there's anything especially rational about people's reactions to we homebirthers, just a lot of fear.

Glad to hear they are all recovering well Spider. Interesting to read, DD(6) is completely unvaccinated (though I rarely mention this on MN) but as yet has not caught anything. As a child I had measles and mumps, and one of my younger brothers had whooping cough - we were all unvaccinated too.

Anyway you say the doctor didn't diagnose - interesting story here...

My friends DS recently had measles. Unvaccinated, contact with infected child, classic presenting symptoms (stomach ache one day, Koplik's spots/headache/dislike of light the next, rash the next...).

She rang the doctors and was told over the phone that 'it can't be measles as we don't have that in this area' and that she should bring him in if she wanted him examined. She did take him, and was told (no testing or proper examination done at all) it was a 'wild measles type virus'. They really didn't want to dx measles, even though it clearly was

And by the way, I never buy this herd immunity malarkey, for a few good reason.

1. vaccinated people still develop measles, usually in an atypical version which may include all symptoms but the telltale rash. I know many parents who practically certain their vaccinated children had it, but who were told it "just a virus" and therefore were unable to obtain either a formal diagnosis or treatment. Surely having frank measles that are appropriately treated is preferable to receiving no treatment?

2. people who believe the vaccination works surely would trust the fact that their child is appropriately immunised? And not feel that they are at risk of being infected by non-immunised children around them? Surely accusing unimmunised children of spreading disease when they are far more at risk themselves of catching the diseases is tantamount to a witch-hunt?

3. in this day and age, people travel. Diseases such as measles are not routinely vaccinated against in many parts of the world. Indeed, diseases such as Diphtheria are still endemic in relatively affluent countries such as Russia. All it would take, if you believe in the herd immunity theory, is for one child to arrive from Russia carrying a serious nasty, to spread it around the whole school. So are your vaccinated children protected or not? Or should we close our borders to prevent nasty foreign diseases from entering (again, a ludicrous suggestion to me, but one I can see might have some appeal to some people--> vilification of people arriving from abroad with TB)

The disease eradication theory also holds no sway with me, since

1. viruses mutate very fast, and a virulent illness will not be held back by any vaccination programme, and
2. small pox for example has disappeared in all parts of the world, even the most inaccessible undeveloped areas where vaccination cannot possibly have been universal. I believe that small pox was a disease on its way out anyway due to acquired immunity (how many people die of bubonic plague these days? and that was a serious killer, wiping out 60% of the population in the 14th century). The WHO then claimed it as a coup, but I do not believe that vaccination was the vector of its eradication. Scarlet fever and rheumatic fever used to kill a lot of people or leave them invalided for life due to subsequent heart problems- nowadays scarlet fever barely warrants a course of antibiotics!

There are lot more issues to this debate that a polarised

vaccinators= responsible citizens caring about their children's health

vs

unvaccinators= irresponsible, n'er do wells not giving a stuff about the poor little kiddies.

Again, like homebirth, never a decision take lightly or in ignorance.

But cars don't work either as an example, Riven: when driving, you are required to drive to the standard of the reasonably prudent, careful driver. No exceptions for age, inexperience, just having passed your test, not agreeing with speed limits, disliking the science behind seat belts. If you drop below the standard, you are liable for a) any damage you cause and b) criminal prosecution.

Does the reasonably prudent, careful parent vaccinate? Not any particular, individual parent, but an abstract one. Yes.

Yes I think there is more of it about than is realised.

I know someone else who suspected their children had it and was told it couldn't be as they were vaccinated - I think vaccination status is used as a diagnostic tool rather than actual examination/testing, which could cover the true extent of outbreaks. And of course the true in/effectiveness of the vaccine.

And if parents are being told their DC don't have measles when in fact they do, just think of the potential for it to spread.

my dd had a high temp and a rash at Christmas and I took her into the emergency docs who said it might be measles, she didn't know. I don't actually think it was measles, the rash faded after 24 hours and I checked pictures of measles rash myslef and it was not a measles type rash, but I was shocked that the doctor, if she suspected measles, did not take a swab, seeing as it is a notifiable disease.

Herd immunity does work, it may not work as well as one would like, but it does work. Vaccines should go through many more safety checks but we are very lucky to live in a society where so many of these very nasty diseases are so rare now, and I think it is a bit glib to say that is nothing to do with vaccination. Statistics also show that if vaccinated children get measles they get it more mildly. The risk is to those under the vaccination age, babies are at huge risk from measles.

You'd think that they would test every suspected case, else how on earth do we know the true extent of outbreaks or how effective the vaccine is.

Glad your children have come through it okay. Watch out for post-viral stuff though as others have said.

Duchesse - it's because people travel to parts of the world where measles is not vaccinated against that it's good to have vaccination. I certainly would not entertain going anywhere that such diseases were rife without having some form of vaccination. You are right - we will never eradicate these diseases but we can at least be protected from them. We are fortunate here.

I have had DS vaccinated but it's up to each individual parent what they do. My reason for vaccinating was because although measles can be a mild illness in many cases, it can also be a very serious illness in others and the virus can lie dormant in the brain after infection only to reappear and kill a child several years later (although admittedly this is rare). I was just not prepared to take a chance on my child's ability to respond in a "mild illness" type was to the virus.

It was pretty naive of Spidermama to post here and think that it wouldn't kick off (including personal criticism of her and people who make choices like hers).

There must be anti-vaccine websites where she could have posted her experience and had 100% support. Whereas on MN, we KNOW that there will always be debate.

I am grateful that Spidermama posted, I didn't know anything about what it would be like to be mother to children suffering with measles (would their bouts be described as no worse than moderate? I had measles jab as a child, as did everyone I knew (I am 41). As a child I never knew anyone who had chickenpox, much less measles/mumps/etc.

In last 2 months DC have had 3-5 days of fever from unknown cause (3dc affected), high fever from chickenpox (2 dc) and the usual plethora of colds and sore throats. No tummy bugs, thank goodness. I think they're quite hardy kids, too, but I sure don't need them to get the likes of mumps or measles, on top of the ordinary illnesses.