My four children have measles.

[Spidermama]

I'm almost at the end of it now.

My 7 year old got it first and was ill throughout half term. The other three have just had the week off school with it and are still loafing around on the sofas at the tail end.

We've lived like vampires in darkened rooms.
During the worst days (probably about 2 days per child) I had to carry them upstairs to the toilet, hold bottled water to their mouths to get them to drink, and DS2 didn't eat anything for four whole days.

We're on the home stretch now and they just need fattening up. It has been a very bonding, intense experience and I'm really glad they have now got natural, lifelong immunity.

I hesitated before starting this thread. I have talked about my childrens measles on the vax thread but I wondered if I could have a measles thread which didn't turn into a vax debate. I also thought the subject deserves a thread of it's own because it's a really big deal for me.

None the less this is such a full on, eminal parenting moment for me, I would hate to let it pass without sharing it with MN. It would feel somehow wrong, like concealing stuff from my family almost.

So DS3 bounced back very quickly. He was flat out and barely able to whisper one day - the next je was out on the trampoline in full gold cape superhero gear. DD1 is also bouncing back nicely. DS2 and DS4 are a bit slower but showing improvement by the hour.

DH is away by the way so I'm here on my own.

MD Consult (no idea of reliability!): "There are now up to 100 deaths from measles in Japan each year."

Japan has stopped giving single jabs generally I think but were giving single jabs in theory a month apart but often in practice on the same day. Should be much longer in between. Big problem over there though, measles.

I think those Japanese figures just about sum it up.

It is bloody annoying Riven. Yes, I noticed that, about students being of the age where vaccine immunity may have worn off, interesting. However, the other vulnerable group are young children under two. In article it says

'According to an infectious disease surveillance (2000), total measles cases were estimated to be from 180,000 to 210,000, and total deaths were estimated to be 88 [11,12]. Measles cases are most frequently observed among non-immunized children, particularly between 12 to 24 months.'

I had measles at 18 (unvaccinated). My dd missed her vaccination at 12 months due to illness and got measles days later. It was the first case of measles the french doctor had ever seen (we were on holiday).

Whilst working on ITU, I nursed children who died as a result of measles - and children with severe meningitis which is a complication of measles, two of the children were severely handicapped (wheelchair bound, no speech, palsy....) and two profoundly deaf. I also incidentally nursed two male teachers who contracted mumps in their thirties; both were warned of problems with fertility and both were extremely ill (icu).

A huge Traveller community in Ireland went from under 10% vaccination uptake to over 90% in a matter of weeks when a Traveller baby died from measles complications.

I respect your choice Spider, but I am with Expat on this one.

I do not understand that where there is no medical or familial contraindication to this vaccine (single dose exists) that one can take the risk with a child's life. Sorry.

but if your dd had been well and had the vaccine ggglimmpopo she would have still had measles wouldnt she? as it has 2 week incubation?

that might explain how more children seem to be getting just after being vaccinated here?

less children are damaged by vaccinations that were damaged by the childhood diseases that they prevent.

i can't really imagine the op making the same point about small pox for example.

Yes, little ducks, I see that. But if she had been brain damaged or God forbid, died and I had not vaccinated her, having seen what I had seen, I would never have forgiven myself for making the wrong choice.

Retrospective, I know. But we all make choices and have to live with the results.

im not saying that you made the wrong choice at all

local to me there have been several cases of kids catching measles within days/a week of having mmr and there lots of concern over this

your post just made me realise that, if you had immunised your dd, she would have been the same as those children

but as she wasnt immunised on that day it shows that some of the cases are from measles being contracted pre-vacc not frpom the jab itself

'if she had been brain damaged or God forbid, died and I had not vaccinated her, having seen what I had seen, I would never have forgiven myself for making the wrong choice.'

I entirely agree with you.

Fio just dirty looks, people I considered friends NOT phoning me, avoiding me, and my ds saying, "X's mum says you're mean for not giving us the MMR".

That and all the one sided righteous fury in the papers and on the news demanding parents are forced to give their kids the jab has really got to me.

Anyway the kids are all fine and will go back to school tomorrow so I'm hoping to put all this behind me and get back to normal.

Well I think all that is understandable Spider. Your children have had a disease that the WHO is trying to eradicate - if your friends had smallpox, surely you would avoid them? Or swine flu?!

I think it's understandable that people are reticient to talk about it, when they might really disagree with your actions. That doesn't mean that they hate you or are demonising you. They might just feel uncomfortable about the decisions you've made and/or think they are wrong decisions. That's fair enough - it doesn't make them any less your friends because they disagree with you.

You son is hearing the other side of the debate - that's fine too. So just tell him "Well I disagree, I think that this means X Y and Z" instead.

I know you are feeling vulnerable but those things sound quite normal and understandable, really. TBH I think it's reasonable that people will want to avoid you for a bit.

Even the single vaccine can cause damage though. I know someone who paid for her DS to have one of the single vaccines for measles (Rouvax) He nearly died from severe meningitis and they're not sure if/how much he will recover from it.

I've been saddened and surprised by you attitude on this thread MP.

I wasn't going to say this as I don't want to judge others over such a difficult and worrying decision but I happen to believe that the MMR is wrong and dangerous for the community as a whole and not just for my children. It means people are getting the illness later, it cuts down on the chance of natural immunity and we are not fully aware of all the other possible consequences of attempts to supress this.

The issue of herd immunity is controversial at the best of times.

The difference is I would never judge anyone, or fail to be around for my friends or be anything but supportive of their well thought through decision even if it does differ from my own. It's a very difficult, painful subject and I would strive to support anyone struggling on either side of the debate.

At times like this you know who your friends are that's for sure.

I won't revisit this thread as I'm not enjoying it.

Do you regret not getting them vaccinated?

sm, i am glad you kids are ok and i am not judging you at all but what did you expect from this thread? i am confused. vacination threads are devisive (sp?).

i do think vacination overall is a good thing but i respect your choices.

I have to say, I respect your decision not to vaccinate, but I would avoid you at the school gate, just because I have a baby who's not yet been vaccinated and I wouldn't want her to catch it. I wouldn't hate you or demonise you, but I would avoid you and your kids.

SM - I think people find it difficult because they believe that your decision not to vaccinate affects their children whereas their going ahead doesnt affect you - ie its easier for you to be non-judgemental about their choices because they dont affect you.

I'm not sure what I think about the whole thing tbh.

Glad they're all better now

Hi,

I've been following the immunisation debate very closely. I'm of the school that there are children with severe underlying medical conditions that should NOT be vaccinated and every parent should make the right decisions for their children BUT it is really difficult with all the conflicting information out there. For me, there was never a question that DS will have all his vaccinations. I did have a slight moment of doubt (and if I, a firm believer of immunisation, had a slight moment of doubt, I hate to think how this fear of vaccine-damaged stories has penetrated society!) but not doing it was never a real consideration. I did wait till DS was 15 months old and I was sure his his development, he was pointing, he was talking loads etc and also made sure his immune system was at its best before I took him for his jabs.

I do feel that if people are linking to vaccine-damaged stories, then I should link to this sad story about a family who lost their daughter to whooping cough at 4 weeks old.

Ax

'you were unlucky that they contracted measles' - no sm did not vaccinate against a highly infectious illness that is on the increase, it was inevitable they would catch it. i think it was lucky they caught it all together at a young age with sm to look after them.