My four children have measles.

[Spidermama]

I'm almost at the end of it now.

My 7 year old got it first and was ill throughout half term. The other three have just had the week off school with it and are still loafing around on the sofas at the tail end.

We've lived like vampires in darkened rooms.
During the worst days (probably about 2 days per child) I had to carry them upstairs to the toilet, hold bottled water to their mouths to get them to drink, and DS2 didn't eat anything for four whole days.

We're on the home stretch now and they just need fattening up. It has been a very bonding, intense experience and I'm really glad they have now got natural, lifelong immunity.

I hesitated before starting this thread. I have talked about my childrens measles on the vax thread but I wondered if I could have a measles thread which didn't turn into a vax debate. I also thought the subject deserves a thread of it's own because it's a really big deal for me.

None the less this is such a full on, eminal parenting moment for me, I would hate to let it pass without sharing it with MN. It would feel somehow wrong, like concealing stuff from my family almost.

So DS3 bounced back very quickly. He was flat out and barely able to whisper one day - the next je was out on the trampoline in full gold cape superhero gear. DD1 is also bouncing back nicely. DS2 and DS4 are a bit slower but showing improvement by the hour.

DH is away by the way so I'm here on my own.

Anedicdote alert!

My 3 yr old nephew got measles. He was unvaccinated.

BUT

He lives in France, and was at nursery school. In France you cannot attend state school without being fully vaccinated. My sister told the school that he had been vaccinated in the UK. Every single other child in his school was fully up to date with immunisations. They live in the back of beyond, and people there travel no further than the nearest market town 10 km away.

So where did my nephew's measles come from, if herd immunity works?

And I don't think it was naive at all- yet again somebody making out that people who do not vaccinate are stupid (just see the number of "smug, stupid, self-satisfied" comments from people with a very sense of their own self-righteousness). I am very pleased and grateful that she did.

just another note about herd immunity, if you look here it shows you stats for vaccine coverage rates and disease rates for each country. Measles cases are much higher in countries where vaccination rates are lower. Sorry, I know that sounds er, trite, but true!

I too believe that individuals have the final say on how to parent.But I have always considered the stats on life expectancy to speak for themselves and vaccination and disease control(antibiotics) are the biggest factors influencing the increase.It is because some of these diseases have been virtually eradicated that we live so long!If you do not truly believe in progress in medicine does that mean that you go down the natural route 100% thus no antibiotics,chemotherapy etc.What would you do in a medical crisis would you refuse?

SPidermama, thank you for sharing this.
my children are not vaccinated either and I am hoping they will get illnesses naturally.

there are indeed measles parties still. we were invited to 3 a while ago, but I didn't go because ds2 had only jus tbeen born and ds1 had literally just started nursery and I figured it would just be a generally bad time for him to get it.
However, we've had none since!

I am in Crawley, so not too far from you. perhaps there will be some more parties coming up if there is such a big outbreak down your way.

am glad to hear the children are on the mend

re the vitamin A, I think the best form of it is retinol (jimjams mentioned this to me) rather than beta-carotene

sorry your dc have measles...but if you didn't vaccinate you must have expected it.

I don't think anyone who chooses not to vaccinate would be surprised or upset when their dc;s catch measles!

Noddyholder, I agree. I think some people do talk themselves into an anti-progress frame of mind without remembering all the good that medicine/science has done

A lot of people who are concerned about vaccinations are not anti-progress though, they are pushing for more research into vaccine safety, hardly wanting to bring back the square wheel. Research, as even the govt's own enquiry the Cochrane report concluded, is at present inadequate.

just to reiterate it is obvious that vast majority of children tolerate the MMR with no problems. But there must be more research into the small number of children who may be susceptible to problems, especially at such a crucial age developmentally.

The safety aspect can only be determined with research which takes time.I wasn't vaccinated and have paid the price so i suppose I am biased!

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the research is not being done noddy, certainly not by anyone in the UK who values their career. That is the problem. I don't believe in a govt conspiracy, but the govt is very determined to protect wider public health at the expense of a possible small number of susceptible children, which makes sense in public health terms, but not in terms of the families affected.

you may want to contact Rosemary Waring at Birmingham University or Paul Shattock at Sunderland Danae for more info.

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Olympe I know that It is shocking tbh.But they are still saying that there is no direct link still not proven conclusively and that the numbers of cases of autism has not risen with the advent of the vaccines so not sure what the answer is.they are obviously concerned with the masses not individuals.

If autism can be triggered by MMR even those who support the theory say it is only accountable for less than 10% of all autism. So an awful lot of environmental triggers and genetic causes out there. I guess this is why the govt feel it is too small a number to spend money on, and the scare factor involved in commissioning such research might cause even more measles cases, and some deaths. So I guess they feel they are doing the right thing.
I suspect they may have to introduce single vaccines in the long term though, in a way a bit like they did when they said 'thimerosal is totally safe but we're taking it out of baby vaccines anyway.'

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Not read all the thread but the times DS has spent in hospital very ill I have found it to be a bonding experience. It's been just me and him all day every day for days, sometimes weeks. It may have something to do with the fact I was in denial. There was no question in my mind that he wouldn't get better. It just wasn't a possibility. So I concentrated on stimulating him as much as possible to help him get their quicker.

I am glad to hear your children are recovering well Spidermama My DB and I suffered from measles, rubella, mumps, scarlet fever and chicken pox in the 1960's along with the majority of our contemporaries.

I remember only too well how dreadfully ill we were with measles. Several of our schoolfriends suffered permanent side effects such as hearing loss.

I am intrigued by your comment about nursing your DC's being an important bonding experience however. Surely you are stating the obvious, given that this is a parenting website?

I have seen it argued elsewhere that nursing children through potentially serious illnesses (along with the necessarily extensive quarantine and convalescence periods) is an essential part or the mother/child bonding process.

This argument has been used to suggest that modern vaccination programmes are part of a conspiracy to force women out of their natural role as homemakers and mothers and into the workplace, because working mothers cannot take the time off to nurse their children through these illnesses. And everyone knows working mothers are evil selfish creatures who don't care about their children. QED.

These arguments have been presented by extremely right-wing economists and fundamentalist religious groups of various flavours, all of whom have a vested interest in keeping women at home.

I'm in the middle of packing, so if anyone else has the time to Google a few links re. the above, I'd be curious to see what you clever ladies can come up with.

I am glad Spidermama posted even though not all agree with her approach. It is important to talk about things in the open, not to hide uncomfortable subjects.

it is quite a courageous decision not to vaccinate I think, you have to be a strong minded person to resist the nagging of health professionals, family and friends and knowing that if it goes wrong and your child does develop severe complications then you will be judged as well as judging yourself.

I did choose to vaccinate. I thought that the risk from measles was greater than that of the jab. Just because it was common when we were growing up didnt make it less of a dangerous disease. But we all make our own judgements as parents and are doing the best for our children.

Dannae this bit which you wrote is absolutely fascinating:
"As a biologist I feel that we have unleashed a juggernaut of environmental toxins that is crashing out its own path and we can no longer predict quite what will happen, the cascade of interactions is so complex. it is deeply fascinating in a sort of rabbit-in-the-headlights-horrified way".

I'm no biologist but I complete relate to that. We no longer understand how to dance with nature nor seem to have any respect for our animal roots. You can alter, supress and manipulate natural processes up to a point, but the cracks begin to show and we're paying the price for too much intervention and too little respect for nature.

The foot and mouth, the cancer, bird flu. Along similar lines climate change shows just how out of touch we are with the real, natural, sustainable resources and how unable we seem to be able to get our heads around the emergency. They say inertia is the human condition.

Somewhere along the line all this is linked for me and I hope maybe one day we'll learn to stop trying to control our environment with quite such arrogance.

ohyoubadkitten I did consider not posting because I'm feeling a little delicate anyway at the moment as a good friend of mine has just died suddenly.

I knew there'd probably be people getting angry with me just for telling the truth and reporting back my experience and whilst when you're feeling strong it's water off a ducks back, when you're a bit down anyway it can hurt.

Actually the thread has been largely pretty polite with a couple of notable and stinging exceptions.

I wanted to post because I don't want to hide who I am and what I deeply believe just because it's unpopular with some people. I'm 43 now and I can't pretend to be someone I'm not.
Also because I know there are plenty of people out there who share my feelings and if they're anything like me they feel pretty lonely about it at times.

very sorry to hear about your friend, Spidey.