Scabies!

[Blanket26]

We've been struggling with scabies for weeks. Several rounds of cream and it keeps coming back on my 1 year old!
I've bought some Derbac M to try. Has anyone had more success with this?
And if so how do I keep it on my 1 year old for 24 hours as he eats with his hands and puts them in his mouth. Can I use derbac m on his body and cream on his hands overnight.

Please help! I'm desperate and this is really getting me down now. Dr's are useless

So the spots on his hands are bright red and quite sore looking but pretty colourless on his body.

Oh wow 14 months I'm so sorry no wonder you are so down about it All again! Never even heard of mirroring spots, god that's so bad. E45 isn't even meant to be a great moisturiser to use in the first place. Did permethrin work on him in the end? Can I also ask how his pustular spots healed at the time? I spot treated my sons hands last night and they look even more angry this morning so I don't know if its normal or if I've made it worse

Prem did work on my then 5 yr old back then but it took many treatments and when they started to get fewer I would spot treat. I’ve not much advice on that as it just got less and less and eventually we were free of it but it took such a long time. He had a couple of really nasty pustular ones and one on his foot and nose I recall that turned into impetigo! The one on his foot they didn’t even look at and say scabies! It was so obvious looking back. If the prem is making it angry or worse I would maybe not put anymore on as if it’s making it red then it’s aggrivating it further. Maybe give it a few days to dry and heal? If it gets any worse see dr? They may give you an antibiotic cream or have some suggestions. With my sons pustular ones they never burst but went down with the prem it took a bit longer than the ones without a head. Only two scabbed and they were the two that got impetigo. It sounds like the baby could do with a bit of steroid ointment but I’m not sure if he’s too young for it. That helped the inflammation on some of my pustular ones first time around and I also treated them with prem. so spot treat with prem in the morning and a dot of steroid ointment in the eve. This would be ok on an adult but not sure they would allow this on a baby but then the dr may say it’s ok?

Perhaps the ones on his body may be healing if they are colourless? And you said he seemed less itchy?

That's so reassuring it worked on your 5 year old, but sounded like an absolute nightmare for you. Must have been so frustrating for you that it took them so long to diagnose too! Yes prem gers rid of some of the pustular ones but makes them so red underneath. I do have steroid cream from his existing eczema, one gp said to use it but another gp said it can make scabies worse and harder to get rid of so it leaves you clueless, but im tempted to try it on his redder patches. Unfortunately both me and baby have got spots and quite itchy now so I'm worried it has failed again. It's only been 10 days since our treatment.

How are you both doing?

Thank you for the advice too

Well I thought we were doing better but little one has just come back from grandparents body clear but now tiny pustules on hands!!! His hands were totally fine before. It’s on both hands and a little round rash too 😩 I can’t believe it. I don’t know what to think. One thing I do do is put his cream on with nitrle gloves so I’m not passing back and forward too much. Trying to limit the transfer as much as possible. I can’t believe his hands today though im shocked. No one else looks like they have any symptoms at all. And if they did they would be in early stage and why have they come up on both hands at the same time?! He’s got another one on his face too. I’m gutted about his hands.

It’s prob because you have the most contact with him and if your rubbing cream into his hands without gloves then over time you could potentially transfer. It’s how carers get it when moisturising old peoples legs etc without realising they have it. I’m worried now as my little one was clear when he went yesterday and came back with both hands like that. Surely that can’t be a coincidence? I see no symptoms in anyone else though unless they are early days still. It’s such a mind field isn’t it. This is why I had such trouble last time. And even if you do find the source it’s making sure they do enough treatments to completely clear them too as we know there is treatment failure. The prob with it being on their hands is they touch everything and want to play with things 😩

I think if your symptoms have worsened along with babies then it doesn’t look good especially if you are feeling more itchy and your spots are multiplying. Are yours pustular too? Do you think it’s because baby has passed it back onto you? I’d make an appointment with the doctor

Oh no I'm so sorry! How many does he have on his hands? Definitely strange it's happened on both hands so quickly. This is what I found, at the beginning he only had a burrows on his hands, never blisters or spots and now it's blisters. Very confusing. are they bothering him?

Good point, but I thought surely if I have cream on my hands too they'd just die after putting cream on him? Yes nighttime treatment was the only possibility with us but also made washing things and cleaning difficult. No I've never had pustular spots apart from I got a few little blisters in a webbing between fingers that always got itchier and drier after permethrin. Even now everytime I use permethrin it comes back but heals with moisturiser between treatments. I assume so. Yes I think I'll be making an appointment soon if no improvement

Does the first pic look like a burrow to you? He’s got 2 on his hands and small ones in palm and 2 on back of one wrist

https://www.dermatologyadvisor.com/news/benzyl-benzoate-superior-to-permethrin-in-treating-scabies/#:~:text=Benzyl%20benzoate%20was%20significantly%20more,benzoate%20reported%20mild%20adverse%20events.

Articles like this really make me wonder about premethrins efficiency. I feel it just has the problem of clearing all the notes in one go as when I’ve done a treatment I’m ocd when applying so it’s not failure to put it on correctly.

Do you find you get the spots under your bra line? Mine are really bad there at the moment and around colour bone and shoulders. It’s clear the ivermectin has not worked on me as my spots shouldn’t be getting worse. I’m not really itchy though and nor is my son.

Ermm it's hard to tell but I wouldn't assume burrows from those pictures. The spot is red quite round around it isn't it I haven't seen any of ours like that.

That article worries me considering they say benzyl benzoate isn't safe for under 2s. Around my shoulders yes, I find clothes lines too and my legs with my jeans on get itchy. Annoyingly I still have nothing on hands or feet. And my itch isn't intense I just get little itches here and there quite often and then goes away. It's good you aren't itching though

Yes it is although the red circle has gone down a bit now and it’s more pimple like. Yes Benzyl benzoate they say is not for under 2s anyway. I was thinking for adults. This is a really interesting white paper to read. They explain the rise year on year in premethrin resistance in scabies and I think that along with peoples immune system has a lot to play in why so many people have issues and others it works for.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5708620/

How’s it going? Not good for us treatment definitely failed. Son has come out with more spots and so have I. I actually feel itchy now. I’ve booked to see the dermatologist Tuesday but clearly the prem is not working whatsoever on us. Hope things are better for you?

Oh no I'm so sorry. Please keep me updated on what the dermatologist suggest especially for your little one.

We've been feeling OK for a few days. I feel spots have slowed down and definitely disappear quickly, still no bumps or itching my on hands or feet. Today though I'm not sure if I can see a burrow on his hand with a mite at the end. I am going to spot treat it tonight and go back to the doctors next week if another develops. I've read a few people have said they actually had burrows coming out after successful treatments as it's where your body is pushing them out and can take a few weeks. But it feels incredibly hard to believe. Feel like we'll be living with this forever and treating monthly 😂

How long does it take for your spots to disappear? Are you spot treating them? And do you find when they disappear new ones pop up?

Im going to ask the dermatologist why new spots are coming up. My son has got redness inside his palm now. And two spots on his wrist. I feel seeing as he never had anything on his hands before or wrist that this can’t be post scabies surely. Is your sons burrow or what you think is one wavy or a straight line? My son has some that look like scratch marks yet his nails are cut so short that it seems impossible for him to make these thin line cut marks.

I think if the spots are getting less and less for you then that’s got to be a good thing. It’s if they stay or disappear but even more come up than the previous lot should you worry. The less they get the better and this would prob mean post scabies surely?

mine however have been increasing but I haven’t waited for them to disappear hence why I was wondering how long does it take for yours to disappear?

Being completely honest i haven't been tracking them too intensely as I'm really trying to keep my mind off it. And I'm finding alot of my itching is mainly due to things like jeans and waist bands. I would say they disappear within a few hours or 2 days at most for some on my boy. The ones that came up straight after treatment have gone now although there's around 4 scabs still healing where he scratched too hard. I'm not spot treating and spots appear in different places.

Yes my sons palms are very red. Nothing between fingers though. I would say try to be patient and keep your mind off it as much as you can. The more you look and think about it the more it'll get to you. I only check my boy during nappy changes and I've even stopped looking at his hands too much, although he does keep getting the pustules. We definitely saw an increase in spots but they have been tapering off over the last 2 days

How are you doing now?

Better over the last few days. I’ve tried a new soap with sulphur in as one of a few ingredients and it’s helping but I don’t want to get excited yet however it’s made a difference over the last couple of days so I will let you know how that gets on. I’ve bought some aromatherapy stuff for the little one which has tea tree, clove bud, bergamot, camomile, geranium and a few other ingredients. It’s for the bath so again will let you know if that helps little one. They said it’s fine for my 2 yr old so will see. I’m just so fed up of putting prem on our skin so thought I’d go natural route. It won’t do any harm so can only try. If it’s any good I will let you know but it has t arrived yet.

How have you and the family been? x

Oooh good i'm glad you're feeling better and hopefully things are looking up. Please do as I dont even know where to start with natural remedies. Yes I feel the same about perm as you. How many times have you had to use it this time?

My sons body has completely cleared of a spots but his hands are getting bad again. Ive got a rash but minimal itch. Still feel confident we still have it

It sounds like we are at similar stages and can’t quite rid the final bit. I can’t work out if our rashes are post scabies or if we have just got rid of the majority of the mite count?

Ive spoken to the dermatologist today and I told him about the soap and aloe Vera gel I’m using for the itch at night, it’s really not that bad. He said good stuff.

As for little one he’s prescribed an ivermectin cream to only put on his actual spots. He’s over 2 so it’s fine and low strength. I had it the first time years ago for myself and to be honest I didn’t rate it but I thought I will try on little one.

He said what he can see is folliculitis and he wants to hold off giving me more ivermectin tabs for another 2 weeks to see how things go.

My spots have dramatically reduced with this soap but today 2 new ones popped up so I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s just drying them out and not eradicating or it is slowly.. Wheb they do pop up some have teeny white heads on- not all. I’ve never had these on my skin previously apart from the same a decade ago again with my then little one. It’s the same thing. Either way I will keep on with this soap and still waiting for the aromatherapy. Also the dermatologist said they don’t bury into the spots but I’ve read that they can use hair follicles- on medical sites and can cause folloculotis. He also said you don’t get them on your face but people do. Have you had any on your face? I also know you can get them on your scalp but not all cases. My scalp isn’t itchy and I’ve never treated it.

With your boys rash did it start off a bit excess like at first or did he only ever get spots?

I did ask the dermatologist if the soap could mask symptoms and he said no. It’s got salicylic acid in, sulfur and tea tree. I read that they use salicylic acid for crusted scabies to get rid of dead skin cells so the topical can absorb better (not my reason for buying), sulphur is known to be used for scabies but I think limited effect and tea tree is a deterrent for mites and lice so I figured it could be quite good plus it’s known to clear up acne which means it in theory should clear folliculitis. As I said it seems to be helping but I’ve only used it for 2 days and a couple of spots did pop up today.

What are you going to do about the little ones hands? Do you think it’s worth seeing the dr now as it’s not clearing? They need to do something surely. Just make sure they don’t get infected as staph infection is common with scabies when sores get infected.

re how many times did we use perm- 3 rounds and then spot treated but they are still popping up. Derm did say there is a growing resistance to perm cream and he said it’s not the greatest. He said we could try derbac m although not sure if you can use that on a 1 yr old. You would have to check. When I used it yrs ago it was no better than perm so didn’t bother this time. Everyone is different though.

Has your 6 yr old got no symptoms/spots at all? Have they always remained unaffected? And your husband now? It seems so strange that mother and child are always so affected.

I worry if we have got it wrong and it’s something else? I mean I’m a clean freak, done all the medication correctly and why is it taking so long to fight off?

what are you going to do about little ones hands, do you know? Xx

https://academic.oup.com/bjd/article/191/Supplement_1/i60/7698813

I'm glad you've been able to speak to the dermatologist. Did he say spots after treatment can be common?

Oooh not heard of ivermectin cream hopefully it works on little one. Is he itching at all?

Ive also read it can cause folliculitis, and also can cause dyshydrotic eczema. I've got some with teeny whiteheads too. I haven't had any on my face but potentially they're in my scalp or it's just irritation from treatment. It's so hard to tell the difference. Yes I've heard promising things about those ingredients in the soap. Keeping my fingers crossed for you and I think I may get some myself. Is it safe for young ones too?

I used derbac m on him for the last treatment round however I cant use it on his hands as you have to leave it on for 24 hours and he eats with his hands and puts them in his mouth so I just had to use permethrin on his hands overnight.

Eldest has no symptoms still and partner still seems in the clear. It is so strange and frustrating at the same time.

Did he say what treatment options you have if you're the same in 2 weeks? Would he want you to continue with permethrin on your child?

Yes I plan to go back to the doctors. His body is still completely clear of spots or rashes and fortunately he does not seem itchy and no disturbed sleep so at the moment I'm happy to give his skin a break as I'm going to ask if the GP can take it further and speak to someone about increasing treatments like every 3 days or something so I don't want to jump into treatment too quickly if they do allow me to treat it intensely.

Thank you for updating me on info the dermatologist gave you

Re soap no I don’t think you can put it on little one as it’s got salicylic acid in. it’s really helped though.

Derm said if in 2 weeks it hasn’t got better then we will reevaluate and I think he’s thinking of giving me a course of ivermectin every 4 days. I’m not itchy at all now. Skin clear except the odd spot that pops up but the soap makes them go and is as effective as the prem but with no toxic rubbish in. It’s too harsh for baby though.

Perhaps you are post scabies but having reaction to previous treatments. Maybe try the soap? It’s called v55 max.

Maybe ask the doc for a sulphur ointment for babies hands? Natural? Try that? Has to be prescribed for him though.

I will keep you updated on our progress

How are you doing?