To think that everyone who told those with preschool children in 2020/21 to get a puddlesuit and that lockdown wasn’t that bad needs to read this

[manysummersago]

BBC link

Reading the above has made me feel so angry and sad at what was done to the babies and toddlers of this country, and I can’t believe that we let it happen, quite honestly.

@bookworm14 that's what parents need to be concentrating on now and arguing about, the lack of funding. Mind they should have been complaining about that pre-COVID too

But it is not just about money, @toomuchlaundry, and as an aside I really hate this meaning yet another thing to whack parents around the head with. They should have been complaining about lack of funding while homeschooling and entertaining toddlers and in some cases working?

But anyway. Lack of funding didn’t have the playgrounds closed with sticky tape, for instance. It wasn’t because of funding that schools didn’t go back after the May half term. And lack of funding wasn’t the reason behind the photo posted above.

Acknowledging harm has been done doesn’t mean that you (general you) are claiming that lockdown was somehow unnecessary.

@manysummersago

Or, *@RaleighDurham*, to share the findings from a news article

Are the people starting threads about Ukraine proposing how to stop Putin, or sharing information and discussing it? I’m not purporting to be an early years expert. I just know what happened to me, and am talking about it.

Turning this into something personal is really unfair.

Don’t worry op I heard it on the news and found it interesting enough to want to talk about it

The title is clear if posters think the thread isn’t what they want, too hand wringing etc, they can start another

No it isn’t just about money. Which doesn’t mean that we don’t desperately need funding for better catch-up services, for chronically underfunded services like HV teams and CAMHS; and to tackle child poverty and children’s needs in the way that Blair’s government tried to do back when.

But it isn’t just about that - like pp said it wasn’t lack of funding that kept playgrounds closed or that made my government suggest telling my toddler to pretend there was shark-infested water between them and other children. And we can’t give ourselves licence to cause whatever damage we want to children in the future so long as we throw enough money at their services later.

I would suggest we bring back that old principle of putting the best interests of the child first when making policy decisions about children. Our governments have been happy to pat themselves on the back about that for years but they dropped it like a hot potato as soon as something scary happened. Let’s not neglect that again.

@GoldenOmber

No it isn’t just about money. Which doesn’t mean that we don’t desperately need funding for better catch-up services, for chronically underfunded services like HV teams and CAMHS; and to tackle child poverty and children’s needs in the way that Blair’s government tried to do back when.

But it isn’t just about that - like pp said it wasn’t lack of funding that kept playgrounds closed or that made my government suggest telling my toddler to pretend there was shark-infested water between them and other children. And we can’t give ourselves licence to cause whatever damage we want to children in the future so long as we throw enough money at their services later.

I would suggest we bring back that old principle of putting the best interests of the child first when making policy decisions about children. Our governments have been happy to pat themselves on the back about that for years but they dropped it like a hot potato as soon as something scary happened. Let’s not neglect that again.

Hindsight truly is a wonderful thing. The decisions were made in light of the understanding at the time. Is it in the best interests of the child that they and their families stay alive? It was necessary at the time.

But anyway. Lack of funding didn’t have the playgrounds closed with sticky tape, for instance. It wasn’t because of funding that schools didn’t go back after the May half term. And lack of funding wasn’t the reason behind the photo posted above.

This. We can be angry about the government’s persistent failure to fund education properly (and specifically with reference to the lack of covid catch-up funding), but that doesn’t mean we can’t also be angry about the way kids were treated during the pandemic. The playground example is a good one. Once it became clear, very early on, that outdoor transmission was minimal, playgrounds should have reopened and kids should have been able to meet outside. There was absolutely no justification for keeping playgrounds shut until July 2020.

Hindsight truly is a wonderful thing.

I seem to recall plenty of people saying at the time that this was disproportionate and would harm children.

How many lives do you think closed playgrounds saved, exactly? How many grannies were spared ICU by nurseries being told that singing with the children wasn’t allowed for months and months and months after they reopened?

(I don’t know what nurseries in England were told, but certainly in Scotland the guidance for nurseries was ‘no singing’ until something like summer of 2021.)

@manysummersago

BBC link

Reading the above has made me feel so angry and sad at what was done to the babies and toddlers of this country, and I can’t believe that we let it happen, quite honestly.

Everyone has suffered.

Yes it's terrible but what was the alternative?

@bookworm14

But anyway. Lack of funding didn’t have the playgrounds closed with sticky tape, for instance. It wasn’t because of funding that schools didn’t go back after the May half term. And lack of funding wasn’t the reason behind the photo posted above.

This. We can be angry about the government’s persistent failure to fund education properly (and specifically with reference to the lack of covid catch-up funding), but that doesn’t mean we can’t also be angry about the way kids were treated during the pandemic. The playground example is a good one. Once it became clear, very early on, that outdoor transmission was minimal, playgrounds should have reopened and kids should have been able to meet outside. There was absolutely no justification for keeping playgrounds shut until July 2020.

Who uses playgrounds though? Your children, parents, grandparents, teenagers etc. Can you really not see why the decision was taken in light of it being airborne and living on surfaces?

Closing schools in March 2020 may have been necessary but making it illegal for my primary aged daughter to go for a walk with a friend wasn’t necessary. She couldn’t go because I had to accompany her and then there were too many people.

Closing playgrounds for months wasn’t necessary.

Keeping the majority of children out of school for all of the summer term 2020 wasn’t necessary.

@GoldenOmber

Hindsight truly is a wonderful thing.

I seem to recall plenty of people saying at the time that this was disproportionate and would harm children.

How many lives do you think closed playgrounds saved, exactly? How many grannies were spared ICU by nurseries being told that singing with the children wasn’t allowed for months and months and months after they reopened?

And what are you wanting here? A sticker? Since when has being ‘right’ been more important than actual children and the actual help they need now? (More investment in services - yes, money)

And what are you wanting here? A sticker?

Yes, The only reason I am discussing the harms of the pandemic to babies and toddlers is because I, personally, want a sticker. How insightful you are.

@GoldenOmber

And what are you wanting here? A sticker?

Yes, The only reason I am discussing the harms of the pandemic to babies and toddlers is because I, personally, want a sticker. How insightful you are.

‘tis a gift. What can I say?

‘tis a gift. What can I say?

I appreciate you think you’re being so very clever here, and certainly showing up those teacher-hating Us4Them Tories or whoever it is you think you’re up against.

But we are discussing babies and children. The bad things that have happened to babies and children. The damage to them. Plenty of people on this thread have seen it, first-hand. Plenty of us have tried to get help for our own children via the underfunded services that you think we don’t know about.

We aren’t pretending to care about babies and toddlers to get one over on you. So if you want to win, then WELL DONE YOU, you have won, here is your rosette off you trot and let the rest of us get back to talking about this report.

You’re not talking about the report though, you’re lamenting something that has already happened and shouting I told you so. Saying that others don’t care about what has happened is just pointless posturing. Others have seen it first hand too. I have stories to tell but I won’t because it’s not helpful to merely trade anecdotes. The provision for young children in this country has been and remains extremely stretched. Who knows? Now that the middle classes have experienced some deficit things may change.

I note the thread is quite long now and links might be getting buried, so:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/education-recovery-in-early-years-providers-spring-2022/education-recovery-in-early-years-providers-spring-2022

Again no one is shouting or posturing,

We’re trying to chat about something new.

I get posters find that not to their liking but really there’s no obligation to stick around.

Do please let us know how we are allowed to discuss the impact of the pandemic without “lamenting something that has already happened”.

What is it that you’re trying to talk about then?

I would suggest we bring back that old principle of putting the best interests of the child first when making policy decisions about children.

A pandemic situation strains society hugely, with clashing wants, and children are easy to override as they don’t have people acting on their behalf. I’d like the inclusion of that.

@MarshaBradyo

I would suggest we bring back that old principle of putting the best interests of the child first when making policy decisions about children.

A pandemic situation strains society hugely, with clashing wants, and children are easy to override as they don’t have people acting on their behalf. I’d like the inclusion of that.

More formalised voice for children as past of future pandemic and other crisis planning would be good.

At least the Children’s Commissioner in England spoke up on things sometimes. The Scottish one has been hopeless. Months and months of months of total silence.

@LittleBearPad
I'm sure there was a point in 2020 that you couldn't even meet outdoors with a friend.
It was either 3 or 6 weeks in before they even introduced single person Bubbles.

Which was very cruel to single people who lived alone. Reports are also showing that dementia patients suffered badly with lack of interaction with other people.

One of my thoughts about increasing early years funding for pandemic toddlers is it really needs to be funding targeted across the primary age group. A lot of the lockdown preschoolers will already be in school, so too old to benefit from early years intervention

[quote Dinoteeth]@LittleBearPad
I'm sure there was a point in 2020 that you couldn't even meet outdoors with a friend.
It was either 3 or 6 weeks in before they even introduced single person Bubbles.

Which was very cruel to single people who lived alone. Reports are also showing that dementia patients suffered badly with lack of interaction with other people.

One of my thoughts about increasing early years funding for pandemic toddlers is it really needs to be funding targeted across the primary age group. A lot of the lockdown preschoolers will already be in school, so too old to benefit from early years intervention[/quote]
I think it was longer than that. A friend made friends with a local cat as they had no one else to talk to.

It should also be a lesson to listen to all scientists, and not dismiss the ones taking a different line as cranks, because of the fear sweeping parts of the nation.

It became apparent early on that the virus did not lurk on surfaces; that children were only mildly affected; and that banning people from human contact, comfort, care, education and exercise was harmful. Which can’t have been a revelation.

We should never again be so quick to throw away basic humanity in the name of “staying safe”.