To think that everyone who told those with preschool children in 2020/21 to get a puddlesuit and that lockdown wasn’t that bad needs to read this

[manysummersago]

BBC link

Reading the above has made me feel so angry and sad at what was done to the babies and toddlers of this country, and I can’t believe that we let it happen, quite honestly.

To be fair, during the first lockdown, lots of teachers from my daughter's secondary school were posting photos of their gardens and walks they were taking in the countryside. I thought then it was tone deaf as there were TAs having to go into school to look after the handful children who had to go in, and many parents would have to obviously continue working. Yes, I know that teachers were officially still working and many were, but at a lot of schools they really were doing the absolute minimum.
This could be forgiven as at first many thought it literally would just be a few weeks/months off work, but it became inexcusable when there was so much resistance to returning to work. I can see where the hard working teachers of MN are coming from if they were going in to school on a regular basis, doing zoom lessons, setting and marking work etc. But, it seems a bit off to dismiss the experiences of so many students who had more or less no teaching during this time.

What's gone on in Scotland has been horrendous, Glasgow was 9 months of no visitors from September 20 to May 21, plus the period of time from March 20 to July 20.
That's a huge amount of time that kids could only meet extended family outside or not at all.
Teachers are masked in nurseries and schools that might have eventually dropped in the last few weeks.
Nursery still have the directive to spend as much time outdoors as possible.

I just find it incredible how much parent bashing is going on in this thread. Some parents had a really easy time, furloughed or just didn't work.
That is a totally different experience to parents who were keyworkers or wfh.
I don't know about rUK but in Scotland both parents had to be keyworkers outside the home to get a school place.
That's then a lot of pressure on the wfh parent, to keep on top of their job and educate children.

I also know of some families who eventually cracked and ended up sending kids to Granny, so Granny ended up with 5 kids all at different ages and staged impossible to educate them.

I read on here summer 20 that an Oxford study calculated that 7 yos were the worse affected age group.

@Sittininafield

I think we need more detail on who the most badly affected children are, and why. Many mothers will have been on maternity leave/furloughed/SAHM anyway/still going to work (and dcs at school if key worker parents). Working from home with small dcs must have been horrific- but it’s not clear that it is their children that have been most affected. The children of people who weren’t working still had a tough time undoubtedly, but I can’t understand why this would affect potty training, crawling, speech, being able to use a book. If anything you’d think these things might be ahead! I think it’s more likely that an element of disengaged parenting has affected children who would have benefited from preschool etc. I also find it hard to understand how months of lockdown has caused years of lost learning.

The answer is that it depends. It depends on the age and stage of the child, how well they were able to engage with home learning, the parental culture … lots of things. Has it led to years of lost learning? I’m lower KS2, my kids are broadly on track in reading, writing and maths. We are doing gap analysis constantly and plugging gaps we find, in addition to teaching new material. I teach in a very disadvantaged area of a major city so … Obviously there are issues for younger children but these are issues that have always been there. The assumption has always been that ‘school will sort that’ well, schools couldn’t for a while. That’s the deficit we’re seeing now. Is it our fault though? Not really.

@WouldBeGood

In Scotland children are still masked in school. Asked fir by the unions

A decision made by your government.

@BogRollBOGOF, children who spend all day every day in a nursery or with a CM are not going to see much of the inside of a supermarket either, and will also miss out on precious vocabulary like 'aisle' if their parents prefer to order groceries delivered.

I live in a place outside the UK where schools went online when lockdown happened.

Every child was given a Chromebook and headphones. This was regardless of whether the families had their own iPads or whatever, and it was done so that if any tech issues arose, everyone had help available from the tech desk. Zoom classes got up and running after a hiatus of three days when the lockdown was first announced. The first few week were a steep learning curve.

Families without solid internet access got internet paid for by the school district.

School halls were opened for students of all grades whose parents were working, staffed by some teachers and TAs and people able to deal with tech issues. The kids sat at their desks all day with windows open, jackets on, headphones in place, masks on. They ate packed lunches at their desks and got out for a run around at whatever time their individual zoom class had recess, with masks on.

Kids receiving free school lunch were able to pick up imperishable packages on Mondays and Fridays from the schools. This programme was extended to all families who wanted a package as time went on, as it was recognised that family circumstances were changing. No questions asked.

The problem in the UK wasn't the lockdown. It was the lack of ability to understand that a lockdown isn't just a matter of shutting everything down. It required putting lots of educational and nutritional supports in place and spending billions more than the government wanted to spend.

I think we need more detail on who the most badly affected children are, and why
My guess is it’s the children whose parents weren’t able to provide the experience and facilities of school while schools were closed, I.e. people who don’t have access to a big garden, or siblings and friends to play with, or time and inclination to read and teach their kids. And also the kids whose parents extended their isolation period because either the child themselves or a family member was CEV.

@BulletTrain

I remember people (family and MN) questioning me sending my 2 year old back to nursery in lockdown 2 and particularly 3 (Jan 2021). Damn right we sent him, for every available minute of his 3 days a week. He's just about managed to maintain social skills because of it, now 3 and a half. But he's been moved up into preschool early because the lower preschool kids (2-3.5) who were under 1 when this started are requiring so much more individual attention than in previous years.

Yabu to think your 3.5 year old has 'social skills'

Singing nursery rhymes appears to be the puddlesuit of 2022.

[quote Imanidiotiknow]@peachgreen hope you and dd are keeping well

I'm torn on this. My ds has a speech delay and I feel incredibly guilty reading this. I know he missed out on baby and toddler classes as well as nursery but he's been read to, talked to, loved, played with, taken out and he's only just starting to speak at 3.[/quote]
@Imanidiotiknow, bit late with this, but just to say my son had speech delay as a result of chronic glue ear. Fortunately it cleared up and he was fine in the end, but he couldn't speak clearly at 3 when he started nursery school. Didn't hold him back academically. He did very well at school. I hope you can get SALT as that really helped my son.

@streamee Am I really? So listening, following instructions, sharing, co-operating with friends, saying please and thank-you? Guess all of these are a figment of my imagination.

Pubs did not have militant unions keeping them closed. Said teachers were posting about lunches and drinks out, whilst simultaneously posting that schools must be kept closed because it was 'not safe' and braying that they were vulnerable to vectors aka children. It was truly despicable.

You know that teachers didn't actually have any control over whether schools were open, right? Nor over what their headteacher's policy about distance learning was? And what makes you think that a) the government decided whether to keep schools closed on the basis of what the unions wanted (it's not as if they usually nod to what teaching unions want) or that b) the unions represented what most ordinary teachers wanted?

Like many people who were furloughed or off work during lockdowns (and who were also posting pictures of themselves in their gardens etc), teachers had no say in the matter. Braying .

@manysummersago

Singing nursery rhymes appears to be the puddlesuit of 2022.

Can also be done by working parents during lockdowns of course. “Hello everyone and welcome to this week’s meeting. Before we start, can I just check you’ve all received the papers, including the one titled “Upcoming Audit”? We only have 45 minutes today and I’m aware we have a lot to get through, so let’s get started. Oh wait, forgot I have a toddler. OLD MACDONALD HAD A FAAAAARM, E-I-E-I-O…..”

The people blaming the impact on children on ‘lazy parenting’ are annoying. But really, it’s a bit pathetic, because these are the people who can’t even stick to their own convictions. Can’t say: yes the effects are horrendous, but this was the least worst option. Can’t say: yes I acknowledge the bad effects of lockdowns and restrictions, but I still think they were worth it. Can’t even look at the bad outcomes without backing away into defensive “well I’m sure it wasn’t THAT bad, probably the parents’ fault anyway, some kids I know had a lovely time skipping round their large garden while furloughed parents read to them and anyway some kids are always behind others and and and and and.”

If you really thought it was worth all the bad effects, you wouldn’t need to be turning backflips to pretend the bad effects aren’t real anyway.

@WouldBeGood

People justifying this are simply in denial.

The effects on development will not be seen for many years. And can’t just be fixed by being sung to.

The ability to form judgments on facial expressions; character; emotions… all of these are critical parts of development. This is well established. Removing normal social interactions will have an effect whether or not the lockdown zealots accept it.

I’m not a lockdown zealot but I do feel that I had a right to be safe in my workplace - education staff weren’t kept safe. I hope that parents will fight for this in the future but I’m not holding my breath given the comments on gin-drinking and sunbathing, made by people who were either WFH, furloughed, on maternity leave or given priority vaccines.

If we accept that some parents can’t (or won’t) parent their children, we need to look after those who do. Education staff have been treated appallingly. I think my colleagues in nursery were exceptionally brave going into work in January 2021 just as everyone else was told to stay at home again. Well done to them for putting their lives at risk for other people’s children. I am sure they will continue to put in hours of work to minimise the impact of a global pandemic/novel virus.

It also ignores children with SEND, of course. Schools were supposed to take children with EHCPs, but many children with SEND don’t have one - DS was diagnosed by a paediatrician at the age of 4, and here we are at 6.5, still inching through the EHCP process. I did actually float him being in school during the second National lockdown but was told very firmly that he would only be doing the same zoom classes as children at home, which is what he was unable to access at all - so it came down to me being able to plug as many gaps as possible. Which I could just about do because I wasn’t working at the time, but if I had been? He’d have had very little education for months because I had to be sitting with him every minute to get him to do anything - there’s no chance I could have left him to draw or colour quietly while I worked, he just couldn’t have done that then. He’d struggle now.

Of course many posters will leap on me for saying this, saying that of course they didn’t mean children with SEND, and do they really have to say that… but the fact is that our children were chucked under the bus and due to their needs, that bus may well have hit them even harder than neurotypical children. And then you say that as a parent and everyone gets in a huff with you…!

@GoldenOmber works both ways. Quite a few people were determined that lockdown was unjustified and would cause untold damage to the economy/the young/mental health/etc etc - and will frame any piece of data to make their case. They were really pissed off when initial surveys showed that the first lockdown benefited lots of people's mh for example.

Lots of selective fitting anacdata to facts on both sides because, as ever, the argument is an ideological one rather than based in reality.

[quote Porcupineintherough]@GoldenOmber works both ways. Quite a few people were determined that lockdown was unjustified and would cause untold damage to the economy/the young/mental health/etc etc - and will frame any piece of data to make their case. They were really pissed off when initial surveys showed that the first lockdown benefited lots of people's mh for example.

Lots of selective fitting anacdata to facts on both sides because, as ever, the argument is an ideological one rather than based in reality.[/quote]
I’m not talking about ‘sides’. This isn’t a war. I’m talking about being able to acknowledge bad things without having to minimise, deny, or lash out with “oh yeah well those people over there were worse!”

I personally, for example, think sector shutdowns and furlough were worth it, in the early months. I also think the huge economic impact of that is now coming back to bite us through the cost of living crisis. I can think both things at the same time without denying or sneering or going “what cost of living crisis, people just need to save more, not my fault if people can’t budget.”

Maybe you can but you are sadly in a minority. The debate is polarised so you are either a "lockdown lover" or an "anti-masker/anti vaxxer". No nuanced debate at all.

What a joke. Teaching unions are pretty toothless

If that is your idea of toothless, then I hate to imagine what you think they could do to the lives of our children with teeth!

The Unions actively worked against the needs of children, they put every obstacle possible in front of the department of Education, calling for heads to ignore the instructions to reopen. They threw the kitchen sink at it, or have you conveniently forgotten what actually happened. Every teacher that pays for these thugs to ruin our children's lives are supporting the damage to children.

What Unions do children have to speak up for them? You say the unions are there to protect the interests of the teachers, what an indulgence when we think the most vulnerable in society had no protection at all, and at the mercy of those militants. If it had not been for the group us4them the schools would still be closed!! I am sure this latest spike would have had the unions slamming the doors shut in no time.

We need a major overhaul in this country, and teachers should have the same legal status as fire service etc, so that we do not reach this point of crisis ever again.

You say the unions are there to protect the interests of the teachers, what an indulgence

Don't be so ridiculous. It is not an indulgence to have the right to belong to a union and to have rights in the workplace. Teachers deserve rights and representation like anyone else.

You're damn right we need an overhaul of the education system. I expect the unions would agree with that. It's not fit for purpose. However, all that you would achieve by downgrading teachers' rights, pay or conditions is... fewer teachers. And worse teachers.

@ChoiceMummy this isn't the first time I've seen you trying hard to make other people feel shit about their parenting.

That's not the sign of a good parent. It's the sign of a deeply insecure and unhappy one. Happy, confident parents don't feel the need to act like you do.

@TeaAndBiscuitsAndWine I hope you are ignoring @ChoiceMummy. It sounds like you overcame immense challenges during lockdown, and I couldn't have achieved what you did.

Children deserve rights and representation, far more than grown adults - especially given their unique vulnerability but do they have it?

No Fairislefandango

And that is a major problem as we have seen.

[quote ancientgran]**@LittleBearPad* Yes which is why I said children didn’t go near a school for almost six months* And why I said they wouldn't have been in school for all of those six months anyway. Why not say they missed three and a half months? Well we know why, it isn't such a good headline is it.[/quote]
By comparing the school opening and closure dates, official school attendance figures and data on daily learning rates; the estimated lost learning time stands at between a third and a half of expected days in the classroom (Major, Eyles and Machin, 2021) - that's just pulled from something I'm working on - but it's from the LSE I believe (I don't have the full citation to hand immediately and I'm about to go out).

You say the unions are there to protect the interests of the teachers, what an indulgence

That’s not an indulgence, it is what unions are for.

@Swayingpalmtrees

What a joke. Teaching unions are pretty toothless

If that is your idea of toothless, then I hate to imagine what you think they could do to the lives of our children with teeth!

The Unions actively worked against the needs of children, they put every obstacle possible in front of the department of Education, calling for heads to ignore the instructions to reopen. They threw the kitchen sink at it, or have you conveniently forgotten what actually happened. Every teacher that pays for these thugs to ruin our children's lives are supporting the damage to children.

What Unions do children have to speak up for them? You say the unions are there to protect the interests of the teachers, what an indulgence when we think the most vulnerable in society had no protection at all, and at the mercy of those militants. If it had not been for the group us4them the schools would still be closed!! I am sure this latest spike would have had the unions slamming the doors shut in no time.

We need a major overhaul in this country, and teachers should have the same legal status as fire service etc, so that we do not reach this point of crisis ever again.

"Every teacher that pays for these thugs to ruin our children's lives are supporting the damage to children."

I was going to engage sensibly with your post, and point out that if teaching unions had any sway whatsoever, they would have had at least some success in persuading the government to mandate mitigation measures like investing in air purifiers, allowing individual schools to come up with plans that suited their particular student profile, mandating masks while rates were rising, not forcing schools to stay open with one teacher 'teaching' 90 children of different ages in a school hall so that they could say that schools were open etc etc etc, until I read this remark.

You're living in a fantasy world, fuelled it sounds by covid-denying us4them.

We do need a major overhaul of education in this country, including investment in teaching staff to stop the mass exodus of professionals burnt out by being treated like shit.