To think that everyone who told those with preschool children in 2020/21 to get a puddlesuit and that lockdown wasn’t that bad needs to read this

[manysummersago]

BBC link

Reading the above has made me feel so angry and sad at what was done to the babies and toddlers of this country, and I can’t believe that we let it happen, quite honestly.

@ReadyToMoveIt but many posters aren't saying that, many are saying with support from school and families many children will make up ground lost during the pandemic, but unfortunately children, who would always struggle due to lack of parental support, will probably be further behind.

I still haven't seen what the alternative would be to having some restrictions to school/nurseries during lockdown. Bearing in mind many schools have been struggling with skeleton staff, teachers having to teach multiple classes in the hall, TAs or other non-teaching staff having to cover classes, some schools having to close year groups, whole schools closing for a few days/weeks in the last few months. What do you think would have happened in the early months of this pandemic with no vaccines lessening the impact of the virus.

If I had been given a choice of DS being taught at home via remote provision by his teachers, or being in school with any adult that could be found on site to cover his classes, I would have chosen for him to be at home so he could get a decent education and get his GCSEs, which he managed to do. For many pupils in the last few months in many schools it has been firefighting, and schools doing their best to keep open but I wouldn't say all children have had a brilliant education.

As a deaf person I've experienced first hand the effect of masks. It was horrible and isolating. I can't lipread if someone wears a mask or even a visor If the light hits it the wrong way. With masks I maybe get every second word or so am have to concentrate so hard to fill in the gaps it's exhausting.

I can totally understand why some children are struggling with speech after lockdown as they seen people's faces, my own toddler is having SALT.

It's very complicated

The comparisons to some mythical pre-nursery golden age when children only interacted with their parents and turned out fine are fatuous. Firstly, you have to go back a long way to find a time when no communal childcare was available - I went to both nursery and mother & toddler groups when I was a child in the early 80s, and both existed long before that. Secondly, even if you were cared for solely by your parents, you presumably still went to friends’ and relatives’ houses, to the playground, to the library, to the museum, on bus and train trips, on days out, to the shops, etc. For long periods over the past two years literally none of that was available to small children. There is simply no comparison between lockdown and any imaginary past utopia.

@ReadyToMoveIt

There was an entire pandemic plan written for exactly this purpose that didn’t include lockdowns. Very experienced people have spent years planning for this very occurrence, and it was all thrown out of the window as soon as China mentioned lockdowns. We had never heard of a ‘lockdown’ before 2020.

The one for influenza? That isn't the same as a coronavirus? There were also lockdowns during Spanish flu so to say we'd never heard of a lockdown just implies should perhaps brush up on your history.

@ReadyToMoveIt Exactly! There were existing pandemic plans, until China introduced lockdowns and the whole world played Follow The Leader.

Neil Ferguson even admitted as much in an interview with the Times, in late 2020. He said that when China locked down, the U.K. government assumed European nations would not get away with it…’and then Italy did it, and we realised we could’.

@Patchbatch Yes, an economist. They were startlingly absent from Sage, but had economic experts been included we might be better off now. The economy did not need to suffer regardless. As ReadyToMoveIt said, pandemic plans have existed for years and did not include lockdowns.

How many posters on here stating the restrictions to babies and toddlers were justified have children under four?

Also toddlers have missed out on so much in lockdown things we take for granted. My 3 year old went on a train for the first time a few weeks ago. Just all these little life experiences they've missed out on.

Also a trolley, my toddler has never been in a trolley seat until recently as all shopping was done online etc or me on my my own.

If I had been given a choice of DS being taught at home via remote provision by his teachers, or being in school with any adult that could be found on site to cover his classes, I would have chosen for him to be at home so he could get a decent education and get his GCSEs, which he managed to do. For many pupils in the last few months in many schools it has been firefighting, and schools doing their best to keep open but I wouldn't say all children have had a brilliant education.

What about a few random Twinkl worksheets that you didn’t have time to work through with him and that being all that was offered. Presumably he’s old enough to phone his friends to chat to them so wasn’t completely isolated?

Now think of a 5 or 6 year old - it’s rather different isn’t it. Much more important they see their friends and why primary school children should have gone back in summer 2020.

@TimBoothseyes

Self employed also means no colleagues or boss for support. No one to speak to when things got too much to ask for a bit of help ir an adjustment of workload or any help at all.

If I didnt work, we wouldnt eat. No partner to pick up any slack. If I didnt cook, my kids didnt eat. If I didnt do the washing then we didnt have clean clothes.

Literally carried it all in my own back. Still managed to educate my kids and got one of them from not being able to read at all to reading chapter books.

Everything in that article is lazy parenting. Toddlers behind in crawling and walking? That's on the parents. Nothing at all to do with lockdown.

I've never said there weren't challenges. And people have been affected by things they wouldnt have been able to change but the OP posted an article and my response is to that article. Everything in that piece of writing is down to lazy parenting.

@bookworm14

The comparisons to some mythical pre-nursery golden age when children only interacted with their parents and turned out fine are fatuous. Firstly, you have to go back a long way to find a time when no communal childcare was available - I went to both nursery and mother & toddler groups when I was a child in the early 80s, and both existed long before that. Secondly, even if you were cared for solely by your parents, you presumably still went to friends’ and relatives’ houses, to the playground, to the library, to the museum, on bus and train trips, on days out, to the shops, etc. For long periods over the past two years literally none of that was available to small children. There is simply no comparison between lockdown and any imaginary past utopia.

Yes, exactly. I was made redundant a few days before lockdown 1 when DS was 1 (obviously then unable to look for work - nobody was hiring a mum with no legal childcare) and the difference between those 4 months and my maternity leave just before that was vast. I went from having 8 NCT mums, 2 sets of grandparents, a National Trust membership, groups at the library, weekends away - to nothing. Me, DS, a ball, the TV and one walk a day. I'm pretty sure my SAH mum's experience in 1983 was more like the former than the latter.

Do posters think if there was no lockdown schools would have continued as normal? Or there could have been lockdown but with schools open?

I doubt this country (and others) will fully recover for a generation or two. The mental health fall out is so shocking that most people can't even comprehend it fully, the loss of life in the teen bracket is horrendous and the ensuring mental health problems continues to mushroom long after the lockdown ended. Demand for support means we are still failing young people terribly, even now. The damage to children's development across all levels, the aspirations of so many gone up in smoke due to poor results. So many children unaccounted for and we haven't even touched on the endemic of eating disorders, self harming and anxiety crossing all ages of children. Students who lost their first year in uni and all their confidence. It just goes on and on.

And my poor parents are still locked away in their house as if it is March 2020 having still not left the house due to the fear of catching covid and dying. My mother still washes her shopping deliveries and their life is now the house and garden, it does not exist beyond her garden fence. We can't even visit unless we stand outside - metres away.

Yes the fall out is real, please do not seek to minimise the destruction this lockdown has done or to say it is x,y and z. It won't fucking wash. The fall out will continue for many more years yet.

@manysummersago

BBC link

Reading the above has made me feel so angry and sad at what was done to the babies and toddlers of this country, and I can’t believe that we let it happen, quite honestly.

And the majority of these issues are quite frankly down to poor parenting. No matter which way this is dressed up.

Children not being potty trained, having good vocabulary, poor gross motor skills, children using cartoon voices etc. There has been no reason that they shouldn't have been having play experiences and exploring the world around them, beyond bad parenting.

Once upon a time, parents actively raised their children and didn't expect that it would be outsourced to others. Covid was an amazing opportunity for parents of young children to actually have been actively involved in their children's development and many have failed their children.

I've not read the whole thread so sorry if already said, but it should have been obvious from about the end of May 2020 (at the latest) that this disease was no where near as deadly as had been feared, children were barely affected at all - this was admitted by the 'experts'. Remember in summer 2020 there were no vaccinations, things went back to normal pubs, restaurants, shops and so on, until July most people weren't wearing masks except in medical settings. Deaths rates plummeted, so restrictions should have eased then. It is almost unbelievable that things carried on for as long as they did, and masks are still being worn even outside by some. I dread to think of the psychological damage that has been done to some people, and the class actions that may be coming in the future.

@toomuchlaundry

Do posters think if there was no lockdown schools would have continued as normal? Or there could have been lockdown but with schools open?

I think the 2020 lockdown could have ended sooner for schools - they could have gone back after the summer half term. Certain school years didn’t go near a school for nearly six months - March to September.

Schools should have opened before pubs

Do you think your parents would have been different @Swayingpalmtrees if there had been no lockdown and we had seen more people sick and greater issues in the hospitals

@bookworm14

The comparisons to some mythical pre-nursery golden age when children only interacted with their parents and turned out fine are fatuous. Firstly, you have to go back a long way to find a time when no communal childcare was available - I went to both nursery and mother & toddler groups when I was a child in the early 80s, and both existed long before that. Secondly, even if you were cared for solely by your parents, you presumably still went to friends’ and relatives’ houses, to the playground, to the library, to the museum, on bus and train trips, on days out, to the shops, etc. For long periods over the past two years literally none of that was available to small children. There is simply no comparison between lockdown and any imaginary past utopia.

Communal childcare has varied over the years, we had more in the 1940s than we did in the 1970s. I used to work with a woman in the 70s who had been one of the leaders of the playgroup movement in the 60s which started as it was almost impossible to get nursery places for children without social services input in large parts of the country.

The earliest mother and toddler groups I knew back then started in the 70s. It isn't that far back although I accept how we view timelines does vary.

I can assure you when I was a child in the 50s I never went to a library or museum until I was old enough to take myself, we went on a train trip once a year to the seaside for a week.

I agree that there have been long periods over the last two years when those things didn't happen but there have also been long periods when they were available. Summer 2020 people were definitely out and about, I live in a seaside town and we were very full with holiday makers so no reason for children to have gone two years without these things. The same happened in summer 2021.

Children not being potty trained, having good vocabulary, poor gross motor skills, children using cartoon voices etc. There has been no reason that they shouldn't have been having play experiences and exploring the world around them, beyond bad parenting.

Once upon a time, parents actively raised their children and didn't expect that it would be outsourced to others. Covid was an amazing opportunity for parents of young children to actually have been actively involved in their children's development and many have failed their children.

Perhaps they were working all day to keep a roof over their children’s heads. Perhaps they were dealing with other traumas you can’t imagine. Perhaps comments like yours aren’t helpful.

Once upon a time, parents actively raised their children and didn't expect that it would be outsourced to others. Covid was an amazing opportunity for parents of young children to actually have been actively involved in their children's development and many have failed their children.

Of course, large numbers of those parents were also attempting to work full time from home while also homeschooling older children as well as looking after preschoolers. I’m sure they’ll be delighted to learn they are lazy and have failed their kids.

I think the 2020 lockdown could have ended sooner for schools - they could have gone back after the summer half term. Certain school years didn’t go near a school for nearly six months - March to September. Children didn't miss six months at school though, there would have been the Easter holidays, half term and the long summer holiday and some children did have time back at school before the summer holidays, I know my GC did, maybe because they were teenagers but they did go back part time.

Schools should have opened before pubs

^ this

Pubs did not have militant unions keeping them closed. Said teachers were posting about lunches and drinks out, whilst simultaneously posting that schools must be kept closed because it was 'not safe' and braying that they were vulnerable to vectors aka children. It was truly despicable.

So yes we are angry, furious in fact.

Schools and nurseries should have remained open. Pubs should have remained close if the objective was to lower the infection rates, which we now know doesn't work and it was all for nothing! We have all had covid now at least once, and look not a single lockdown for a year. We had peaked by the end of March 2020 anyway, a natural tapering off would have happened anyway.

@Hugasauras

Totally agree
What worked for one clearly doesn't work for another family. This is why covid has divided so many people.

Some children thrived but many won't have

The groups I felt most sorry for were

New mothers
Mothers off toddlers
Teenagers
Uni students
And of course those that couldn't see or visit elderly relatives and those who lost family.

We incidentally lost mil in March 2020 just before the first lockdown. She has terminal lung cancer but was doing well. She was taken ill super quick and died within days with a severe cold.
Wasn't tested. I'm very suspicious it was covid. We will never know.

Covid was an amazing opportunity for parents of young children to actually have been actively involved in their children's development and many have failed their children.

As opposed to now, when everyone is back at work, kids back at school and no parents of under-5s are "actually actively involved" because they use paid childcare? Nice.

@user1471443411 we didn't have Delta then

Covid was an amazing opportunity for parents of young children to actually have been actively involved in their children's development.

Do you realise many were working at the same time as trying to homeschool or deal with younger dc?

Were you furloughed and that is now what you think Covid was - extra time together?