Feeling forced to chose a circumcision...is it my husband,is the religion,is it really necessary?

[efy]

I have read some messages related to this tread by some of you and I understand when you guys call people like us....crazy etc.
I come from a non-circumcised family, my three brothers have never done or need it.
After I have changed my religion I wanted to follow the requirements of being from this religion. I like to believe that I have personally done some changes which were related to my self.
Now that I have an almost 12 months son, it looks that I have to fill up another requirement, which is circumcision, because I am from the religion that requires circumcision but the difference is....the change I need to do does not envolve me directly...is actually my little baby boy.
How do I feel about this?? Well I feel is unnecessary, I already feel guilty for planning to handle my little precious boy in someone's else hands to just harm him...yeah that is exactly how I feel...me and his father taking him with his little smile to a place that God knows what may happen.
And you know what, it was actually planned for tomorrow but I feel relief for now because we have discovered the person who was suppose to do it has had an unfortunate case where the little boy had to be taken to hospital for more operations in order to be 'fixed'.
My husband was circumcised when he was 5 and he believes in it, I don't believe and I think is more cultural than religious, I just do not understand why God will leave this for us humans to do it? Why did he leave that thing there if it need to be removed and why on such as small baby? Why??
My husband speaks about it as being just a simple procedure because he is a doctor but this is not the point, what about the baby? how is he going to feel?
I am relief for now but I am not convinced that this is in anyway necessary if at all...
I rather feel pushed to do it along with my baby.

[NurseyWursey]

I like the use of foreskin 'fetishes'. Sorry, but we're not the ones who are obsessed with the removal of if.

Cleanliness washing can't give? Rubbish. Absolute rubbish. Do you have a penis? Because washing one really is quite simple.

And the foreskin is there to protect there are numerous reasons why they're there. But you seem to think you know better

And you think the stubbed for analogy is ridiculous yes? That's because it is. Exactly the same as removal of a child's foreskin for no reason.

[Martorana]

"I use braces to demonstrate the hypocrisy of your claim that doing something to a child's body without immediate medical need is wrong.
It turns out that this only applies to the foreskin.... removing teeth for cosmetic reasons is perfectly acceptable!"

No. I believe that doing something to a child's body without immediate medical need without consent is wrong. Children do not have braces fitted until they are of an age to decide for themselves whether they should have it done or not. I am suggesting that the same should apply to circumcision. You have not addressed this point.

[baggins101]

Mawbroon said "Braces have stopped all these problems. Now, I don't know about you baggins101, but I would not consider sleep apnoea, mouth breathing or ENT problems "cosmetic" hmm

My, my! Considering what, 99 percent of braces are fitted for purely cosmetic reasons we do have a lot of unhealthy people here, don't we!

And all entirely beside the point since you have no objection to braces being fitted for cosmetic reasons you are still a hypocrite.

[MrsAtticus]

Not read whole thread, so sorry if I'm answering having missed something.
I also converted to a religion that requires circumcision. As far as I know the requirement does come from religion. There are many medical advantages for circumcision, which your husband as a doctor will have told you about I'm sure.
I'm not undermining your feelings about it, which are obviously very real and distressing to you. For me though, it was a simple matter of trusting that this was in the best interests of my son. It was a simple procedure, done in a professional way, and didn't cause undue distress. Our DS was also 1 year when he had it done.
It's a lot more painful to have it done as an adult so your son might not thank you for leaving the decision to him.
I hope you and your husband come to an agreement and you both feel as peace with the decision. Perhaps leaving it for a bit is the best option for now.

[baggins101]

Martorana said "No. I believe that doing something to a child's body without immediate medical need without consent is wrong. Children do not have braces fitted until they are of an age to decide for themselves whether they should have it done or not."

You delude yourself if you think most 12 year olds choose to have teeth removed and braces fitted. Their parents persuade them to have them just as I persuaded my daughter to have them.

And I "persuaded" my five year old son that being circumcised was better too. Does that make you suddenly think his circumcision was right? Of course not. NOTHING would persuade you that circumcision is ok so you really are talking complete nonsense in order to support your BELIEF that circumcision is mutilation.

[PigletJohn]

steady on, baggins old chap.

I'm sorry to hear you had a filthy stinking penis until you were 29. Your zipper accident must have been absolutely frightful, I can't imagine how you managed to damage yourself so severely. I dread to think how bad the damage would have been if you had ripped a chunk out of your glans instead. Lucky it was protected by God's natural design, eh?

[Martorana]

Well, 12 is much more able to consent than. 5 days.....

Why didn't mt you have your son circumcised as a baby if you think it 's such a good thing?

[Martorana]

Well, 12 is much more able to consent than. 5 days.....

Why didn't mt you have your son circumcised as a baby if you think it 's such a good thing?

[Martorana]

And have you had your daughter's labial lips removed so that they don't spend the day bathed in urine?

[PigletJohn]

I'm told there are women who have their labia surgically trimmed because they have somehow got an inaccurate idea of what a human body looks like. I suppose the same thing must happen in countries where mutilation of baby boys is so common that they think an unmutilated penis looks wrong.

[MrsPear]

Not read every comment but I wanted to add I married into a different culture and had two boys. My Dh wanted circumcision and I didn't. It got heated however he accepted my argument that can always get it done of they want but they can't get it undone?! We would had it done in hospital in his country but aren't religious ones done in home that would worry me more

[MrsPear]

Oh and we had to firmly shut up with the comments about our boys funny willys!

[mawbroon]

And you got that figure of 99% from where?

If you are actually interested in why orofacial structure is important to overall good health then have a read of this, especially the sleep apnoea section And it will also show you how idiotic your "teeth are not meant to be straight" comment is.

I don't know how you have reached your "hypocrite" conclusion. I have only questioned your comment that all braces are for cosmetic reasons and have not expressed an opinion on circumcision at all.

Straight teeth are IMO almost a side effect of his treatment. My motivation for seeking early orthodontic treatment was to improve his ill health and ensure that he will not need extractions when he is a teenager.

So you can get tae Falkirk with your circumcision = same as braces.

[DaleyBum]

Agree with everything Nursey has said.

[YNK]

You are the hypocrite baggins!

[AlpacaYourThings]

I'm sorry to hear you had a filthy stinking penis until you were 29. Your zipper accident must have been absolutely frightful, I can't imagine how you managed to damage yourself so severely. I dread to think how bad the damage would have been if you had ripped a chunk out of your glans instead. Lucky it was protected by God's natural design, eh?

[baggins101]

Martorana said: Why didn't mt you have your son circumcised as a baby if you think it 's such a good thing?

Sorry... did I say it was such a good thing? I actually said there are some advantages to it and it is a valid choice for parents to make. I also said that as far as I could tell from the evidence there was not such an advantage to circumcision that all boys should be circumcised.

At the time of my sons birth neither my wife or I had looked into the evidence for or against circumcision in any depth. It only became important when a family friend contracted penile cancer.

The more we investigated circumcision, the more we found that the foreskin fetishists like you are happy to exaggerate and spread lies as long as it supports their beliefs.

You see, instead of looking at both sides of the argument from a neutral standpoint, the vast majority of foreskin fetishists have decided they don't like circumcision on an emotional level and refuse to consider anything that doesn't support their emotions. Bad science. Bad advice. Even worse than Brian Morris, and that is also bad science.

On balance there seem to be very few genuine disadvantages to circumcision (the pain argument is entirely fiction and certainly my own had not made sex less pleasurable over the years), and several viable advantages.

But you will believe on Wednesday what you believed on Monday, regardless of what you learn on Tuesday. I just feel your lies and misinformation should not go unchallenged.

[baggins101]

YNK said: "You are the hypocrite baggins!"

Please do feel free to elaborate, YNK. Or is this what you are reduced to now that you have lost the argument on reason?

[NurseyWursey]

foreskin fetishists

Is this your buzz word of the week? Poor.. very poor. It loses affect say... after the FIRST TIME.

There are plenty of men who have suffered physical and psychological damage due to circumcision. Men who have had to have further surgical procedures, counselling, refused to speak to their families after what they've done...

If you truly believe in the benefits which obviously you do, why not let your DC to make that decision themselves when they're older? Or are you worried they won't see it your way so you remove it whilst they're too young to protest?

[baggins101]

AlpacaYourThings said: "I'm sorry to hear you had a filthy stinking penis until you were 29."

Yes. Its much cleaner now, thanks.

"Your zipper accident must have been absolutely frightful, I can't imagine how you managed to damage yourself so severely."

Thank you for your concern. I was in a hurry and the teeth were sharp. And since the nice clothing designer put a chord on the zip like they do with ski jackets, I pulled it with rather more force than was good for me.

"I dread to think how bad the damage would have been if you had ripped a chunk out of your glans instead."

Yes. I imagine it would have been far worse, seeing that the glans is so much more sensitive than the foreskin.

"Lucky it was protected by God's natural design, eh?"

Which god would that be?

[KirstyJC]

I was going to say wow Baggins is a total cock.....but of course he isn't

Removal of body parts for non-medical reasons is unnecessary and barbaric. Just because it's been done for years doesn't make it right.

[NurseyWursey]

So because you weren't capable of cleaning your own penis, and you were clumsy enough to harm yourself... you removed your sons

[Layl77]

Have you seen a procedure being done? No? Have a look on YouTube. Vile, mutilating and unnecessary. Cutting off a part of your body might prevent something that is unlikely to happen anyway but increases the chances of your innocent baby being harmed. Your baby is much more likely to be admitted to hospital after undergoing circumcision

[baggins101]

NurseyWursey said:

"foreskin fetishists

Is this your buzz word of the week? Poor.. very poor. It loses affect say... after the FIRST TIME."

An apt description though, wouldn't you say?

"There are plenty of men who have suffered physical and psychological damage due to circumcision. Men who have had to have further surgical procedures, counselling, refused to speak to their families after what they've done..."

I wouldn't want to denigrate anyone's suffering.... but really! How cosy does you life have to be for a lack of a foreskin to be your biggest worry!
Have you noticed how young guys rarely complain their circumcision stops them getting erections.... that it is mostly middle aged guys? Middle aged guys who are often a tad overweight? Who, perhaps, wrongly blame their age and weight related inability to get or maintain an erection on their circumcision?
Just saying.

"If you truly believe in the benefits which obviously you do, why not let your DC to make that decision themselves when they're older? Or are you worried they won't see it your way so you remove it whilst they're too young to protest?"

Before the age of 7 or 8 a plastibell or circumplast can be used. These are virtually painless (yes, they are - local anesthetic then my son didn't even want any of the stack of Calpol we had bought in preparation!) and bloodless methods of circumcision. Older boys and men have thicker skin and need stitches.. and usually a general anesthetic.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

My brother wore braces and didn't have any teeth extracted. I thought that was pretty common.