Hyperactivity label? [titled edited by MNHQ]

[Flojobunny]

Health visitor wants to refer DD (4 yo) for hyperactivity assessment. What is it with health care professionals trying to stick kids in to boxes.
Yes she's always on the go, yes she doesn't sleep but she's my DD and that is that. No good can come of being labelled surely.

The other thing to consider is that Ritalin has been around for 60 years or so, and has been used very safely indeed (proper, legal use, that is).

I think a lot of the controversy comes from people thinking "WTF? You're giving speed to a hyperactive kid?!"

I think whether or not a 'label'/diagnosis is appropriate for your daughter is impossible to say over the internet.

However, I agree with you that it isn't always necessary or beneficial to seek a diagnosis. It depends entirely on the severity of the symptoms or condition and whether or not anything can be done to help.

A few years ago I had a girl in my class who was very classically aspergers (I know aspergers doesn't technically exist any more but I find it such a useful differentiator from autism. If it's an unacceptable term I apologise). When I first raised concerns with her parents the response was : "Do you have any academic concerns about her?" I said no. They then asked "Will diagnosing her as aspergers help her with her social difficulties?" I had to say again, probably not. So they didn't want to explore it. Because she was just who she was and there was nothing that could have changed her so why bother going down a long, hard diagnosing road.

However, had that child had a condition that could have been improved, then I would say that not seeking a diagnosis would have been very unwise and unhelpful.

Interestingly, I also work in a Sunday School class where we are not allowed to know personal details about the children (excluding medical danger). At first, as a teacher, I was appalled that I couldn't know about any diagnoses - 'how am I supposed to teach and support them without knowing any challenges they might face?' I thought. But actually, it's fine. I suspect I deal with 1 child with ADHD and another two with ASD but, even though I don't know for sure, I can still treat them as they need to be treated.

Sorry that was a bit longwinded but, in short, I'm on the fence.

davsmum - there are MANY illnesses that the med community is unsure about, why pick on ADHD to mention? Why come on this thread? You aren't taking on baord what we're saying.

We WERE discussing the different aspects of dx and treatment, til you started implying that it was mainly down to family failing, and ignoring all the information people have shared with you.

Say what you like, but we don't agree with you. We can turn round and tell you that you're wrong without it meaning we aren't open to discussion. Because a lot of what you have said is based on inaccuracies, ie wrong.

You voiced your opinions, we told you they were wrong. Get over it. Don't go sulking that we aren't open to discussion - we have engaged with you, given up information, and discussed this. But you are still wrong.

Rules - how did you get your name? I ask cos many spectrum people really LOVE rules, it gives them a sense of security when they can't work out the nuances of social interaction etc. (Genuine questions, partly prompted by your last post)

Oh sorry, minimou

Should have added, I have taught students with ADHD in the past, and I am absolutely convinced it is not something you can cure with family counselling; from my observation it is a learning disability that affects how you process and transfer information (amongst other things). It has made me realise how much we take for granted in the development of young NT people.

And from my experience it has nothing to do with bad manners or lack of discipline; they have been some of the most charming and well mannered students I have ever dealt with. But they have had to work many times as hard as anybody else.

Counselling might help to some extent, just as counselling has helped my dd to come to terms with her aching joints and dodgy back. But it won't cure real ADHD any more than it will cure dd's connective tissue disorder.

To be fair kick there are many many references we could all point to that would tell a different story if we wanted to. I didn't actually think anyone said it was made up by parents and quacks....sorry if im wrong. I have found the information that was given by some of the ladies on here to be very interesting and informative and thank you to some of the answers. It must be really hard to deal with your childrens condition and you have my sincere apologies for making anyone feel that I was patronizing you. I wasn't , I was asking genuine questions as that is the only way to learn about something. I can read about it in a book but that is not the same thing is it. Thankyou.

@tabulahrasa

"We feel that the OP has every right to ask about her DD's possible diagnosis. However, we do have an issue with any posts that infer having a diagnosis is something bad, or to be avoided."

I'm assuming that doesn't include the OP? Because I agree that in general that is disablist, but obviously when it's a parent trying to get their head around something then that's completely different.

Hi tabulah - yes, that's it - we were posting slightly in haste because our inbox was filling up with complaints about posts on this thread (understandably).

As you say, parents' ambiguities about receiving a diagnosis for their child are perfectly understandable.

What's really not on is to imply that children's diagnoses are the result of bad parenting, or a failure to adhere to alternative therapies.

@PolterGoose

Kate whilst of course the OP has every right to ask about assessment, the way she has worded her title and general posting style is inflammatory and dismissive of ADHD as a medical condition, thus rendering it inherently disablist.

We've had a good look at this, and we do think that the wording of the title and the OP are understandable, given that this is a parent discussing something that could have enormous significance for her own daughter. (Sorry to talk about you as though you're not here, OP!)

While we understand that expressing misgivings about 'labelling' can in some ways feed in to damaging narratives about behavioural disorders, we don't think her post was dismissive of ADHD in its entirety - it reads to us more like an expression of her discomfort at the idea of that diagnosis being applied to her own child.

Had it been a post explicitly expressing scepticism about the very existence of ADHD, that may well have been different. (We've nixed several posts on this thread for that sort of blanket statement.)

The OP sounds understandably worried and angry, but hopefully some of the responses have helped her.

rules - as this discussion has gone on, you have sounded more like you actually want to know, so my last comments were directed at davsmum as I get a completely different feeling from those posts.

fwiw, a friend of mine was dx as an adult. She said that taking med for the first time was like the clouds parting. Life became clearer, sunnier, happier.

If you think you have some symptoms, then do read up, ask etc. But MANY people have some symptoms, it IS a sliding scale with people referring to being 'on the spectrum' rather than saying adhd, asd etc.

I am very mildly on the spectrum. So is dh. Neither of us failed at school, but looking back at old reports you can see we showed some signs (doesn't always concentrate comments abound on mine). So it's no surprise that we have a daughter with ADHD. There are other family members who show some signs, so I suspect it has been 'bubbling' at sub-medical level for a few generations until dh & I got together.

Is this not an open forum. You have removed posts because you don't agree with the rest of the thread. No one has been rude except the lady who told people to "fuck off" but that is still there. Mumsnet has been very biased here and I am quiet surprised at the way you have handled this and hope that you don't censore all your threads in this biased unfair way.

kick I was interested in the thread for many reasons when looking at my own childhood and thinking about my own grown up children. So my questions were genuine and I apologised in the beginning for anyone who felt that I was patronizing. I have actually learned a lot and for that I thank those who replied. Like I said before, I wish you all well with your wonderful parenting efforts.

Thanks Cory - and you're right about the manners. Getting into trouble was never great, but I always shrugged it off. Unintentionally offending someone, though...ermagerd!!!! Or queue jumping by accident.... I can remember pretty much every time I've done these things - and I've done it a lot.....

We're wondering about DS, who will be seven shortly - he's showing a lot of similar traits to me - including what seems to be innate good manners.

Except for interrupting people though - that's never good....I try not to, but sometimes it just happens.

@Rulesgirl

Is this not an open forum. You have removed posts because you don't agree with the rest of the thread. No one has been rude except the lady who told people to "fuck off" but that is still there. Mumsnet has been very biased here and I am quiet surprised at the way you have handled this and hope that you don't censore all your threads in this biased unfair way.

Gosh, we're sorry to have upset you Rulesgirl.

We're not quite sure though what you mean by 'open forum'. Mumsnet does have a set of Talk Guidelines, which clearly state that we will delete posts that we consider to be disablist.

We try our hardest to be fair in our deletion policy; we're sorry if this isn't coming across. Do please report any posts that you think we ought to look at again.

I am happy for that post to be deleted and will report it myself. Was a bad moment and I shouldn't have said it.

They then asked "Will diagnosing her as aspergers help her with her social difficulties?" I had to say again, probably not.

manicinsomniac How could you say that an Asperger?s diagnosis would not have helped with her social difficulties?

Did you know for sure what all her communication difficulties were, and that none of them would have been amenable to help from a language therapist? Does your NHS/EA really not run any social-communications-skills groups for kids with Asperger?s? Or if they don?t, and if there are no affordable privately-run groups or therapists, did you know for sure that the parents could not have used the diagnostic process to pinpoint the areas where they could have helped their DD to develop her social and communication skills using some of the many social-skills workbooks?

And then there?s the other support - wouldn?t a diagnosis have allowed her a place (for example) on the introduction-to-university summer school for youngsters on the autism spectrum that Bath university are running this year, and may run again? Or access to other social groups specifically for young people with ASCs or other communication difficulties?

And finally, did you not think a diagnosis could be helpful to the girl herself to understand why and in what ways she struggles socially, and that it might show her how to empower herself?

How could you just give up on her like that?

My post iz reported...not my finest moment and I am happy for it to be deleted.

I apologise for offending anyone.

Kleinzeit has just put into words what I was feeling. I have met so many students whose lives have been needlessly complicated because nobody realised that a diagnosis would open doors. I am continuously surprised at how many strings we can pull if we just shout a bit. And students who have gone through childhood feeling stupid or bad or useless because those were the only words they could find to explain their difference.

Ime modern children and teens are usually very tolerant and acceptant of peers with SN. But they are no more tolerant or acceptant than anybody else of people who just appear disruptive and badly behaved for no discernible reason.

kelinzeit - I don't want to discuss too many details about her personal situation online but I didn't give up on her - she's just left the school and was a senior prefect, one of the top athletes in the year, managed the backstage crew in a play and performed solos in concerts. She may have been an unusual case but she has transformed unbelievably from a 9 year old who couldn't see anybody else's point of view and couldn't cope socially to a delightful, if very quirky, girl with lots of friends. Maybe her condition is mild, maybe she grew out of it or maybe she didn't have it at all. But, in her case, I believe her parents were correct not to pursue diagnosis. She will always be unusual but I don't think she needs intervention for that.

Well, I am glad things turned out well for her. But if she had continued to struggle instead, I hope you would have changed your mind.

Rowan - cheers, I was just a bit worried that the poor OP might come back and find that not only had it turned into a huge discussion but that she'd been told off as well when she's clearly dealing with something a bit big.

Kickassagngel, I did not 'pick on' ADHD to mention. The thread is about ADHD.
I came on the thread because my sister has been told her son has ADHD by a peadiatrician who refuses to have him properly assessed for autism. My sister has also been told for him to continue to get extra support at school she may have to agree to him having medication for a diagnosis she does not agree with.
I think that explains why I came on this thread - but then again, I should not need to explain why I came onto the thread!!

At NO time have I implied it is MAINLY down to family failing!
ADHD is NOT down to family failing but because of the ridiculous way my nephew has been 'assessed' it has made me wonder whether other children get diagnosed properly!

I am afraid some people have chosen to believe I implied something I at no time did!

Davsmum, I think people with disabled children took huge offence at the way you labelled us all as having victim mentalities when we tried to explain our opinions to you.

It may not have been intended, but it did come across as ignorant, inflammatory and downright judgemental to parents that deal with unimaginable difficulties every single day.

We fight battles everyday trying to raise awareness for our children's conditions, the fact that so many posts on this thread have had to be deleted for disabling comments simply highlights how long we still have to go.

*disablist, damn iPad!

I have two labeled kids - it has helped them - at least it's helped us all understand that the violence, the bad moods, the anxiety, the upset, the isolation, the clumsiness, the difficulty making friends etc etc

It has reduced the number of exclusions my 10 year old daughter has faced, brought support for both of them and me

It's a long road towards a possible statement for one and also, yes, medication - which should help her control her temper

She is full of self loathing and her self image is shit because she hates the fact that she looses it and lashes out - if a label helps that, if drugs help that - bring it on - because to see that in your baby is utterly heartbreaking

Y y gordys heartbreaking.

And to have your 3/4yo described as "violent and aggressive" in a report by a professional on the same side as you (and writing the report to support you) is a dagger twisted in the heart.