Hyperactivity label? [titled edited by MNHQ]

[Flojobunny]

Health visitor wants to refer DD (4 yo) for hyperactivity assessment. What is it with health care professionals trying to stick kids in to boxes.
Yes she's always on the go, yes she doesn't sleep but she's my DD and that is that. No good can come of being labelled surely.

I agree they will still struggle even with harsh consequences, but they will still usually get more done with those consequences - the more immediate the more useful. They are still just a useful aid though, not a cure.

Sorry Insanity your first post read as being a positive experience for your child until you said all the awful stuff you have been through.

Ah, so if anyone has the temerity to disagree with Davsmum based on their own personal experiences with their own children it's because we all have 'victim mentality brains'

Very good Q, Rules, thanks for that.
Would I not have ADD? If I could do it all over again, difficulties included?
Yes I would. It's a hoot at times. It makes you funny, it makes you daring, it makes you brilliant in a crisis. It makes you very kind and empathetic, oddly enough.

Would I want DS or DD to have it, though? Not on your Nellie.

'So can it ever be a good thing. For example Robin Williams the actor says that it caused him to become a comic/actor because he needed the applause to get his hit of dopamine. Others have said that for them as an adult it is like a gift that has allowed them to strive to be the best.'

Oh there can be massive upsides to ADHD, creativity being one of them...but first parents have to get children through the school system and to help them find ways to manage and channel behaviours - which is of course much harder to do if ADHD isn't recognized in the first place because it isn't the same as raising a child without ADHD.

Minoum you sound like you really except yourself and love yourself which is lovely and a lot more than a lot of us can say. Makes me wonder then if perhaps more of us could perhaps be slightly affected by some of these conditions even if not fully. So what we perceive to be "quirky" might in fact be "slightly" autistic or similar. Just wondering ....

A lot of people with ADHD thrive in highly structured jobs (e.g. military), and fail in unstructured environments with long deadlines and little supervision or collaboration.

Finding a career that works well despite ADHD problems is a job in itself but if you find one then that can be lifechanging. I still tend to think that people who hit exactly the right job area and have the talents to match are then successful despite rather than because of their ADHD. I.e. they'd do the same but even better without it, except possible for the serendipitous aspect where events that you would never have experienced without ADHD (losing a job, failing a course) lead you to later be in the right place at the right time for another job opportunity.

I view it as a pretty horrible disorder not a gift, personally.

Tell you what, Age - I've been self-employed for years, but I collaborate with a team....and it's only the thought of letting others down that keeps me in line. Otherwise, I'd doss about doing rubbish piecemeal writing work that's utterly disposable and throwaway, as well as very underpaid.

The office environment would be a nightmare.
It's not a horrible disorder; it's a PITA, it can be emotionally painful, YOU can be a PITA to more organised people, but it has its place.

Rulesgirl

You could be right.
I have heard that many people are on the Autistic spectrum somewhere.
I often think my partner has austistic traits and other people have commented on that too.

The traits of ADHD vary across the population and it's the people clustered at the very very far end of the spectrum whose lives are severely affected enough for diagnosis. If you don't have the severe impairment across more than one area of your life, then being occasionally a bit forgetful or distracted or impulsive won't ever lead to a diagnosis of ADHD.

minouminou, it's definitely a horrible disorder IMO. But the 'it's a gift'/'it's a disorder' debate is probably not worth going into right here!

Afternoon all,

Thank you to everyone who brought this thread to our attention.

We feel that the OP has every right to ask about her DD's possible diagnosis. However, we do have an issue with any posts that infer having a diagnosis is something bad, or to be avoided. It is this sort of thing that our up-coming campaign "This Is My Child" is going to tackle, and we can see that there's already been some great myth busting on this thread.

We're going to go through this thread and remove posts that break our talk guidelines, which included disablist posts. As ever, please do report anything you'd like us to look at.

Flojobunny - we wish the very best for your DD

Ageofextremes - it was my understanding that anyone showing 'symptoms' of ADHD was not accepted in the military? Or someone taking medication for ADHD would also be excluded (even if they then did not display 'symptoms'). Have things changed recently?

Now my children are adult, one of them can explain what having ADHD is like....most people have no idea at all how much they suffer in being able to exist in a world that is so difficult for them...thankfully medication saved my son's life...without it there was no education possible, no social life and there would definitely be no chance of holding down two jobs, having a fun and active social life and being the responsible member of society that he is today (as long as he takes his medication!!!).

In his case the only side effect of the very strong and complex medications he takes, is the prejudice he receives from someone who does not understand how necessary it is!!

There is no victim mentality going on...just a lot of pissed off people who have enough to deal with already in a daily basis.

I have already said in this thread that ADHD can be misdiagnosed.

I have also said that this is not the case for the vast majority if children diagnosed with the condition.

In return I have seen

People questioning the motives of parents and schools and the medical profession for wanting to use medication which has been proven to help.
The suggestion that children with ADHD are segregated in different schools.
The comment about only 1% of French children being diagnosed with ADHD with no reference to the plethora of stuff in the media which answered that. The suggestion being presumably that if the French don't believe in it then neither should we

Yes I resort to angry insults in the face of that because it is what I hear on a daily basis. I actually omit the ADHD bit when people ask about DS's diagnosis, I generally only mention his autism and dyspraxia which is far more socially acceptable it seems. Yet his ADHD gives him an equal number of challenges and more so academically...all his medication has done is allow him to catch up and feel some self confidence with his school work.

I apologise if I offended people with my insults but quite honestly my life is exhausting and it's about all I am fit for.

Like I said...walk a mile in my shoes before judging me or anyone else please.

Davs girl & Rules - for many years now, about a decade, people who work with children have been talking about the sliding scale of ASD and ADHD and how the two are linked.
There is also much about sensory issues.

The fact that you are both 'wondering' about this now makes you sound very out of date with what you know.

Please take this on board.

In everything you post you sound out of date, ill informed and prejudiced against accepting the medical world's fairly substantial findings.

Why have you bothered to come on this thread to ask us such out of date and basic questions when you have been told repeatedly that your opinions are upsetting? If you really want to learn more, go the SN boards and lurk there. If you know you are upsetting people, but persist in what you do, that becomes bullying, so please desist with this 'innocent' musings about maybe we just don't know what we're talking about.

Or start a thread with a confrontational question, like, "could someone please explain what the dx process is, and why does medication seem to be the best answer?"
You will receive a much more open response to that.

''Wondering' out loud (when you have to go to the effort to type that out) whether parents are too keen to go for med/dx, whether there should be therapy etc really is insulting.

"We feel that the OP has every right to ask about her DD's possible diagnosis. However, we do have an issue with any posts that infer having a diagnosis is something bad, or to be avoided."

I'm assuming that doesn't include the OP? Because I agree that in general that is disablist, but obviously when it's a parent trying to get their head around something then that's completely different.

Hmm, see - I think a parent dealing with something emotive should be given a bit of leeway.

Just my opinion though.

A lot of people do have traits of ADHD and ASDs. For most of us, though, and I include myself, while we might have isolated difficulties, like coping with unstructured social situations and the dreaded small talk (I am talking about myself, here - others may struggle with budgeting or punctuality), the difficulties aren't pervasive and can usually be dealt with, without too much effort or possibly avoided without too much effect on our overall lives. ADHD and ASD are pervasive, though. They are lifelong and affect people in all situations. With ADHD, there is too much of it for people to organise or self-discipline their way out of without some form of help.

I was giving the military as a general example, I don't know much about specific rules, though I think I remember reading that in one country you can't get into the army with diagnosed ADHD but can get treated if it's diagnosed after you're in!

fwiw, in the US medical insurance does NOT include getting a dx for ADHD. Those parents who have gone through the process have paid $4,000 (aprrox.) JUST for the dx.

Then you have to pay a bit each month towards the meds - dd's cost me $50 per month. Luckily we can afford it.

The meds have to be signed for each time you pick up the prescription, which you have to order one month at a time from the doctor. You have to take the script to the pharmacy, (no automatic repeats) and, because it is a RARE (yes, please not that word) prescription, they don't have it in, so I have to wait a few days to collect the meds, at which point I have to sign three times to pick up and pay for it.

I work ft. The mileage from work/doc/pharmacy etc is probably about 50 miles by the time I've done the various journeys, and getting to the gp outside of my working hours isn't easy. As she is on an unusual (again - please note, unusual) medication, I have also had to appeal to our med insurance co. to get it covered, otherwise we would have to pay the full cost of it, which would be 100s of $ a month.

So, please, don't start thinking that the high incidents of ADHD in the US is because it is 'easy'.

And yes, in the past, ADHD or ASD people didn't get dx, the condition was discovered because the signs were there & scientific research shows what the cause is, but the symptoms have been recognised for many many years.

Watch the movie 'Let Him Have it' if you want to know just one example of how things were in the good old days before some quack invented it.
Then google the % of prison convicts with ADHD.
The % of school drop outs v college graduates.

In other words, do some reading and research before making your inaccurate assumptions.

Jakebullet

I understand what you are saying however, please bear in mind that even in the medical field and amongst 'experts' opinions differ regarding diagnosis and drugs.
It also differs amongst parents who have children being diagnosed with ADHD.

It would appear that only one type of thought or opinion is allowed to be mentioned on a thread like this - and those must never be questioned or discussed.
I am afraid I did not understand that about this site.

minouminou Wed 24-Jul-13 14:25:43
"I'd like to see the long-term outcomes for these French children."

This.

Speaking as a HE teacher, a diagnosis (whether of dyslexia, ADHD or Aspergers) means that I am able to offer my students the support they need to make the most of their abilities. It might mean support from our specially trained pastoral staff, it might mean tweaking my teaching to meet a specific problem, extra exam time or something as cheap and basic as a different font used on the exam paper. What it boils down to is the difference between them being able to get an education or not.

To put it briefly, a diagnosis means they achieve more. Now who wants to quibble with that?

I regularly see students who were undiagnosed at school, who were led to believe they were just stupid or naughty, who underachieved throughout their childhood and only went back to education as adults, post-diagnosis. The satisfaction of seeing somebody like that tackle an ambitious degree programme and emerge at the other end with their degree is beyond words.

But the stories they have to tell of their school years, before the days when SN were diagnosed and catered for, are heart-rending.

ouryve .....interesting, sometimes I have thought about my lack of fitting into social circles as a child and running away from large groups of people and not always understanding everything that is going on and that feeling of being an outsider and not really belonging but put it down to upbringing. Like someone said, there are many levels to the spectrum I guess.

Cory - I should have been clearer...I was asking about the French children who were offered family counselling and so on, rather than meds.

Actually, if anyone has any genuine questions about ADHD there is a wiki page on it.

It was first 'diagnosed' in the 1700s.
Medication has been around since the 1930s

Still think it's some kind of modern 'epidemic' made up by parents & quacks.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder#History