Hyperactivity label? [titled edited by MNHQ]

[Flojobunny]

Health visitor wants to refer DD (4 yo) for hyperactivity assessment. What is it with health care professionals trying to stick kids in to boxes.
Yes she's always on the go, yes she doesn't sleep but she's my DD and that is that. No good can come of being labelled surely.

[ouryve]

embrace

[embracethemuffintop]

I want to apologise for my last post as I was very upset and I lashed out. I just want to say that the last thing I would want to do is upset another mother with a child with special needs. I know only too well how tough it can be, but also how rewarding. I agree with everything euphemia said.

[EuphemiaLennox]

It's good you have somewhere to vent Ouryve, Im sure its a lifesaver at times for you and I'm sure your experience and support for others on the SEN threads is invaluable too.

[ouryve]

And to be open and honest, I do tend to come on here and have a good vent when I need to (and the boys are occupied - though sometimes even when DS1 is working off a meltdown, as being "busy" is often the best way of helping him to calm himself, whilst still being vigilant). Ideally, I'd run up the nearest hill (that would mean running down this one first, but you get the picture) and have a good roar, but I'd have to arrange respite, before I could carry that off.

[tabulahrasa]

Well to be fair it was me being defensive on somebody else's behalf...I think when you're talking about what is by nature of being about parenting an emotive issue then it matters greatly how things are said.

If I accidentally inferred something insulting about somebody or accidentally said something which was disablist then I wouldn't object to being censored and explaining what it was I actually meant.

Different points of view aren't an issue in themselves, but how they're expressed are.

[EuphemiaLennox]

Ouryve I have absolutely no doubt that you have spent exhaustive amounts of energy addressing your sons needs and that you feel that medication has been a really positive thing for him.

Both these things are very clear from your posts, and neither I nor anyone else has suggested that you've done it lightly or that it's beena negative thing for your son.

No one has said that.
But that is what you've heard, and I understand why as its an understandable defensive reaction to a perceived slight.

But honestly the suggestions that others would chose differently and take a different stance with regards to diagnosis and medication (in reference to the OP) is not a judgement on you. It's just a different approach or way of viewing things.

I see both sides, I've worked with parents who've had very different views to how they want to approach SEN with their children, and there is no right/wrong clear cut answer.

What I don't like though is when one view is shouted down and accused of being prejudiced or judgemental, and when that results in some censorship as was called for on this thread.

I'm sure you and Embrace both love your children, have spent countless hours and endless sleepless nights considereing how to help them but you've both taken different paths, probably for a variety of reasons: your different children's needs, behaviours, differing opportunities for you both and a differing philosophical perspective on the medical model/within child debate.

There are many parents grappling with this making difficult and different choices and that alright as there is no clear answer,just opinion.

[ouryve]

Euphemia - I have expended a huge amount of energy, over the past year or so, exploring and investigating a better educational model for DS1 than his current mainstream setting, which whilst extremely caring, is often overwhelming for him. I have found somewhere with small classes and a very gentle approach which will encourage him in his interests and talents and help him to come out of his shell, socially. This is all providing I can get the LA to agree to it, of course.

Without medication, the search would have been fruitless because he wouldn't have a hope in Hull of accessing it. I medicate away as much of the pain caused by my HMS as I possibly can - plus I do physio exercises to help prevent the pain and weakness. Without the medication, I can't manage the physio. It's too difficult and leaves me exhausted and in more pain. I view his medication in the same way. It dulls the roar inside his head so he can work at life. The advantage for us is that we see a lot more of the bright, funny boy that he is.

And yes, I do accept that my "little bubble" comment was scathing. Over in SN chat, we were discussing sleep, the other day and I acknowledged that I am very lucky that the boys usually sleep OK. Not well, but OK (we've had a few notable exceptions, recently). If I was to proclaim that my boys' reasonable sleep patterns were down to my awesome parenting and that other people must be doing something wrong for their children to be awake half the night, then others could quite rightly accuse me of being in a little bubble because I would be displaying an incredible lack of empathy and understanding.

[Davsmum]

No one can tell a parent how they should parent their own child. However, you can make suggestions, especially when a parent is claiming to have problems.
If someone does not want comments or suggestions then its best not to post about problems!
You will get comments you like and comments you don't like.
Try to ignore the ones you find 'insulting' and just go with those you find reassuring.
However, sometimes its the ones you don't like that may be the most useful.

[ouryve]

Oddly enough, Embrace. I don't take offence. I love him to bits and there is plenty positive that I do say about him, but right now, I'm sleep deprived and physically and mentally exhausted. The problem that DS1 had, yesterday, was that DS2 was existing and in his way and dared to cry and make a noise when he was hurt. I do mean woe betide us, including DS2 in "us" because he has severe SN and LDs and also struggles and it does him no good to have a brother who loses his temper for reasons that are beyond his comprehension and cuts his activities short. So when DS1 loses his rag on a day out and poor DS2 ends up only getting a short walk around the park, accompanied by a shouty brother as we have to go back to the car early because it's a bit too windy not only is it unfair on DS2, it's a bit bloody miserable for us when we have to scrape a now tearful DS2 off the ground, dodge his lashing out because he doesn't understand why we have to change direction and try to get everyone out of the situation and home, safely. There is NO talking it all better. If you appeared with your head tilt, he would either be further enraged than he already is by Weather happening or a shop not having something in stock or run away in blind panic because the last thing he needs is an annoying social interaction to try to cope with while the adrenaline is pumping.

I am acutely aware of how awful all this is for him, and of how troubled he is, but I'm blown if I'm going to paint a rosy picture of the behaviour.

[tabulahrasa]

I'm honestly not objecting to anything that you and Jakebullet are saying about different methods of communication, or even embrace saying that heightened emotions from a parent can absolutely affect behaviours.


Of course shared experiences and strategies can be massively useful, that's pretty much a given.

It was the suggestion that you can tell from posts how someone is feeling about their child and how they act towards them that really got my goat.

I mean I don't know how negatively someone is while communicating with their child, saying I have been and found things easier when I changed what I was doing is helpful or of course irrelevant if that isn't the issue. Presuming I know how somebody else needs to parent without ever having met them is the bit that's insulting, suggesting that I think you feel negatively about your child is really quite insulting.

Especially if you consider that of all people I'd expect another parent of a child with an SEN to understand that what is true of one child isn't true of another. Isn't that one of the things that lots of people on this thread are complaining about, the inflexibility of systems to cope with children that have differing needs? Including embrace...

[Davsmum]

Its great to seek out solutions in books about different methods of communicating. Some can be really helpful.
I was always quite negative with my daughter and had not realised I focused more on what she did 'wrong' than what she did right - and you are correct Jakebullet - it DOES make a difference just by changing that one thing.
Mind you - I read quite a few books and found myself over thinking everything!

[tabulahrasa]

Nope not particularly easily - I just think there was a lot in that post that was insulting.

In what way is saying that you feel negatively towards your son not judging?

It is blaming if a parents is saying that x frustrating behaviour is linked to the two diagnosis my child has and someone responds with, maybe you should just try to feel less negative about your child.

Maybe embrace didn't mean to imply that the behaviours were in fact caused by the negative feelings and not in fact because of anything that affects the child, but that is how it read to me and possibly the other people who objected to it.

[JakeBullet]

Just adding in something else here. I recently read "Calmer, Easier, Happier Parenting" by M Noel Norton (I think...don't quote me on the author lol).

I bought it because lifw is stressful for me as a single parent and I began to worry that my communication with DS was too negative. I wanted to change that and make my praise more descriptive. As DS is also autistic this works veey well with him.

Part of this was to change our mornings, to stop the nagging and praise what he HAS done...even if all he has achieved is getting his socks on. "Well done J, you got your socks on even though they are hatd for you" etc. It HAS made a difference and more is being managed in a quicker time.

Just a thought.

However I dont agree thay people who might write negatively on here are negative in real life. Sometimes it is about letting off steam safely. I can gey very frustrated and can rant (and swear ) on here but I don't do that in real life. Unlike DS who has NO problem with expressing how he feels...complete with the language of a five star navvy when he is upset.

Btw....for those of us helping our children who do explode from time to time I have found a distraction box helpful. Getting DS to identify his feelings successfully is still a work in progress but progressing. We have stress balls, stretchy men, pen and notebook etc. DS sometimes finds it easier to draw his feelings before being able to talk about them.

[Davsmum]

I disagree that she was judged.

I don't think 'blaming' is the right word either. As a parent, we are all 'responsible' and I doubt any of us do anything deliberately 'wrong'
We all do things with the best intentions - but it doesn't mean its the best thing.

You appear to feel insulted quite easily.

[tabulahrasa]

Oh and I also object to the implication that those behaviours might not be present if only people were more positive about their children, because it smacks a bit of mother blaming...but I suppose that that could be interpretation.

[tabulahrasa]

I find it insulting to suggest that a parent posting negatively about behaviours feels negative towards her son, not just the behaviours.

I also find the implication that the way she posts is exactly how she feels while dealing with those behaviours and not just abstractly while illustrating a point slightly insulting, but mostly the first one.

Maybe he picks up on your frustration about his behaviour and it escalates the behaviour isn't the insulting part, it's the part where her feelings about her son that are being judged by posts about a specific part of his behaviour.

[Davsmum]

He will pick up on the feeling ( which she expressed in words on here!)

Then Embrace made a suggestion that the feelings could be picked up by the child and this could affect his behaviour.

What on earth is wrong with that?!
Of course children's behaviour is affected by the feelings of their parents! Do you seriously think children are oblivious to a parents feelings?
Do you seriously think that we should not all be aware and consider this?

Why do you find that insulting?

[tabulahrasa]

"They are your words and reflect your feelings about your son, which of course he will pick up on. I think that maybe you should think about how you see your son, and whether that has anything to do with his behaviour."

That is what it says, not how I'm interpreting it, what it actually says. I'm not suggesting anything other than what was posted.

[Davsmum]

Yes,.. you have made that clear.
But please try NOT to suggest that people mean something that they have not actually said - but it is how YOU have interpreted.
I think THAT could be described as 'insulting'

You don't seem to have understood any explanation to your accusation.

[tabulahrasa]

Picking apart somebody's posts on here and saying that the attitude that they display on here about their child (not behaviours or situation but actually saying that that is how they're feeling about their son) may be affecting his behaviours is insulting IMO.

[Davsmum]

No one said anyone should stop.

No one said its not ok to find something frustrating or to discuss it.
We all find things frustrating - but you have to be pretty naive not to think a child picks up on these feelings whether we kid ourselves we are not showing it to the child or not.

Its just about being aware. Thats all.

[tabulahrasa]

So anyone complaining about toddler tantrums, whiny pre-teens or surly teenagers should stop as well?

It's not ok to find something frustrating and then discuss it in a space away from the child? We don't assume that adults are capable of feeling frustration towards a behaviour without being able to seperate it from how they feel about their child?

[Davsmum]

Of course they don't pick up on something they can't see!

If someone shows their frustration in a post about the situation then that frustration is also there in real time in real life when the child IS present. It isn't switched on and off - It exists!

How on earth can anyone find anything insulting in common sense!

[JakeBullet]

Absolutely, I spent a year declining medication for DS. With the benefit of hindsight I now feel it was a wasted year to some extent. Except it wasn't as it allowed me time to clarify that it was the right path to take albeit very reluctantly.
I am a convert to medication though given the benefits Ihave seen DS experience.

[tabulahrasa]

Children do not pick up on feelings in a post in an adult forum - that's the insulting part of it, that because someone is negative online that they must also automatically displaying that feeling to their child.

That because they're stating negative things about how something affects then that they let that spill on to how they feel about their child and that their child is picking up on that.

The rest of it is just a bit circular, not insulting.