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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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Original poster

All of you who CHOOSE not to vaccinate your children

659 replies

UniqueAndAmazing · 13/04/2013 10:34

Do you realise that's the reason why there's now an epidemic of measles in Wales?

You know children with auto-immune problems, children with cancers, children with allergies that mean they can't be medicated, children who react badly to drugs?
You know them? They're suffering because of you not wanting to vaccinate your child.

You have no medical reason for not vaccinating, but plenty of reasons TO vaccinate.

You are causing a whole generation of children to be endangered from a preventable disease.

Measles can be fatal
(that means it can kill )

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
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HazardLamps · 15/04/2013 21:37

Oh man! Look at my grammar in that last post! Blush

WouldBeHarrietVane · 15/04/2013 21:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jamtoast12 · 15/04/2013 21:53

Have the single vaccines had even a fraction of the testing the mmr has had? Im sure there was a documentary years ago saying the single vaccines are far riskier than the mmr purely based on few tests generally on them.

ChompieMum · 15/04/2013 21:57

Hazard, I think you may be right that it won't change minds but I am ever optimistic.

I agree with what you say about the two sides never meeting too. It is strange to me though that those who do not/cannot vaccinate (many it seems for very valid reasons) don't encourage others to vaccinate as it does decrease the risks for their DC.

JoulesM · 15/04/2013 22:02

I'm sure everyone who advocates single vaccines has read this....

www.hpa.org.uk/Topics/InfectiousDiseases/InfectionsAZ/MMR/GeneralInformation/

Re: varicella vaccine (chicken pox)...
There are some studies that suggest the use of the vaccine doesn't offer lifelong immunity especially in populations where all children are vaccinated as there is less of a 'booster' effect that occurs with exposure to the virus. There was however a very large Japanese study that found an average of 20yrs immunity (which can be topped up with a booster just like we do with things like tetanus). The shingles risk is so far theoretical...and not proven. These are however the reasons cited by the uk gov. I don't think it's a conspiracy though as some have suggested...more likely the Gov is nervous abt adding another vaccine to the schedule in an already vaccine anxious population!?! Only my theory...

The UK DOH is however considering introducing Varicella vaccination and is funding a large study to look at efficacy.

Sorry to ramble I just wanted to provide some evidence rather than just anecdotes to the discussion.

HazardLamps · 15/04/2013 22:03

"It is strange to me though that those who do not/cannot vaccinate (many it seems for very valid reasons) don't encourage others to vaccinate as it does decrease the risks for their DC."

I have to be honest and admit that I've never thought of it that way. Although of course I'm very aware of 'herd immunity', I've just never considered the benefit to me and my children of actively encouraging others to be vaccinated. You have a very good point there, ChompieMum. Smile

Hey you guys, guess what I'd like you all to do... !

ChompieMum · 15/04/2013 22:25

Lol Hazard. Just goes to show that individualism can be positive sometimes too.

PJM18 · 15/04/2013 23:57

I'm getting confused. Unique and amazing, you said following saintly's post that she hasn't vaccinated her younger children for valid medical reasons and her situation is exactly the reason other people should vaccinate. Unless I'm getting it wrong, saintly chose not to vaccinate her children because she believes that the mmr caused her son's severe autism. This is also why the people you are criticising choose not to vaccinate as they are worried that the mmr may not always be safe. You are being very contradictory.

lottieandmia · 16/04/2013 13:35

I've just heard on the radio that single vaccines now cost over £100 per child. I imagine there are a lot of people who cannot afford that.

WouldBeHarrietVane · 16/04/2013 13:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lottieandmia · 16/04/2013 13:39

Well I have just checked my local private clinic where measles vaccine costs £110, rubella also costs £110 and mumps costs £120. Then on top of this you have to pay £50 registration fee!! When did it get so expensive????

Interestingly though, they also offer tetanus on its own. I didn't know you could get this.

lottieandmia · 16/04/2013 13:41

So realistically you could be looking at £600 per child! omg

monkeysbignuts · 16/04/2013 14:24

It's always been around that price here.
6 year's ago when I was considering single vax for my first it was £100 measles and £90 for mumps and £90 for rubella. Not sure about registration fees though. The more I looked into it (vaccines coming from Africa, risk of them not being tested etc) the less convinced I was.
I also heard that you can't get single mumps anymore due to a shortage of suppliers?

Original poster
UniqueAndAmazing · 16/04/2013 14:37

Amber -
"Hang on. OP you posted this thread berating 'fucking selfish' parents who don't vaccinate because of wakefields debunked research and implied they are stupid, ignorant selfish etc for being worried about the autism link. "
i didn't think she was talking about Autism being the damage that was caused - I thought she meant that her child got brain damage because of it.
Not autism.

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Original poster
UniqueAndAmazing · 16/04/2013 14:40

anyway, I never said the decision wasn't black and white. of course making the decision is hard - what sane person wouldn't go over and over that decision? Even those who don't have medical reasons

I said that the fact of the decision is black and white.
If you don't have medical reasons not to vaccinate, you should for the greater good.
If you have medical reasons, then you have to decide what to do.

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Original poster
UniqueAndAmazing · 16/04/2013 14:41

From a personal point of view, I don't believe in private healthcare at all.
(I know that some medications are done on private prescriptions because they're not neccessary for health - eg malaria when you're going on holiday)

I wouldn't pay out for the single vaccination, but I know some people would.

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Original poster
UniqueAndAmazing · 16/04/2013 14:43

I also said that even though we all know that the research paper got debunked, that I could understand people who would think long and hard before vaccinating just in case.

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lottieandmia · 16/04/2013 14:52

UniqueAndAmazing - autism IS brain damage. Certainly in some children and certainly in my daughter. I expect individuals with very HFA would disagree that it is in their case but there are very different kinds of autism.

sassy34264 · 16/04/2013 14:58

Has any one read the debunked findings? I've read it twice and i can't find anywhere were it says his findings were wrong.

It criticises him for ethical, moral and financial wrong doing.

Like i said i haven't got a science brain, and it is a long article but my understanding is it was the way he went about it and not the actual findings that got de bunked.

Dr singh from the university of utah, has come to the same conclusion in his research papers. Why has his research paper not been debunked???? Why has no-one heard of him?

AmberLeaf · 16/04/2013 14:58

Saintly mentioned her child having autism.

But you are saying that there is no link between autism and MMR.

You gave a list in your OP of the sort of children being affected by the fucking selfish sort of parent who chose not to let their child have the MMR. Siblings of autistic children weren't in that list because you don't think there is a link. So they would be in the 'fucking selfish' category.

Saintly said herself she is in the grey area.

I'm not surprised at your backpeddling when faced with people who have been seriously affected in real life, hard to be harsh when you can see how hard it is for them.

Maybe this thread could be a lesson to anyone who thinks these things are black and white? Maybe an opportunity to be less judgy? Or less vocal about it at least.

Original poster
UniqueAndAmazing · 16/04/2013 14:59

I don't know if I would class it as brain damage, because no one knows what causes it, and it seems to be genetic.

Anyway, I don't know about autism - Even if it is brain damage, it's not the only form of brain damage - not all brain damage is autism.

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Original poster
UniqueAndAmazing · 16/04/2013 15:00

i'm not back-peddling.

the grey area is the parents' decision. not the fact of the decision.

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Original poster
UniqueAndAmazing · 16/04/2013 15:00

back pedalling even. Blush

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Original poster
UniqueAndAmazing · 16/04/2013 15:03

I stand by the fact that it is black and white.

I'm not saying that it's not a hard decision for any parent.
You either vaccinate or you don't.

if you have a medical reason, then you have a hard decision to make (or if your medical reason isn't on the list)
but if you have no medical reason and cannot even give a nod towards one, then you have no case to answer.

like so many other posters have put "ooh, i might have heard something about it being bad" is not a medical issue. nor is "i prefer to give my child vitamin c in the form of flowers"

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saintlyjimjams · 16/04/2013 15:05

Of course it's brain damage. WHY else would a child lose the ability to produce certain sounds - and never regain that ability.

If you want to see a video of severe autism here's a fairly shocking (but very realistic in some cases) example This is what people mean by severe autism - and you don't go from typically developing to being that severe for no reason (please note I do not know that young man personally and have absolutely no idea of his route to autism - my point is just to give an example of what people mean by severe autism his was the first video that came up and I thought was pretty realistic).

It does NOT 'seem to be genetic' in all cases - in multiplex autism the traits do appear to be inherited, this is NOT the case for simplex autism. There may be a susceptibility but environmental insults are believed to play a role as well. Regressive cases usually have a poorer prognosis that autism present since birth - with people being more severely affected.

So basically you are lecturing people about the MMR without knowing anything at all about autism.