All of you who CHOOSE not to vaccinate your children

[UniqueAndAmazing]

Do you realise that's the reason why there's now an epidemic of measles in Wales?

You know children with auto-immune problems, children with cancers, children with allergies that mean they can't be medicated, children who react badly to drugs?
You know them? They're suffering because of you not wanting to vaccinate your child.

You have no medical reason for not vaccinating, but plenty of reasons TO vaccinate.

You are causing a whole generation of children to be endangered from a preventable disease.

Measles can be fatal
(that means it can kill )

link again

i'm lecturing people about MMR fullstop.

nothing to do with fucking autism.
but to do with swathes of people putting their local community at risk because of namby-pamby reasons.

unique i think what you are saying is, it is black or white, you can choose yes or you can choose no.

there is only a grey area if a person comes up with a grey area.

???? Is that what you are getting at?

the first part - you can choose yes or choose no.

the grey area is not knowing the decision for the best.

What is a namby pamby reason?

They don't trust the rhetoric?
They don't believe the government funded scientists?
They read up on the subject and it's most definately not black and white?

lol. But you know the decision for the best?

Are the rest of us too thick?

But you don't understand that 'fucking' autism is brain damage?

Here's a less shocking, very typical video with a very sweet kid (not mine)

My son was developing typically (he played peek a boo, he said quack when he saw ducks, sssssss at snakes etc etc) he lost those skills, took until he was 10 to understand the meaning of the words 'yes' and 'no' and has been taught everything he knows more or less in a similar way to the video above.

So excuse me if I don't want the same for my younger children.

This is a really good from someone who has no idea whether she's immune from the various diseases herself or whether she, like this "fucking selfish" parent and my children, may be going around spreading them.

I repeat, UniqueAndAmazing - unless you have been titer tested recently and you know for sure that the vaccinations you had, some of which were administered 20 or 30 years ago, worked when they were given and are still working you are just as "fucking selfish" as me.

You're potentially just as guilty of the people at whom you're swearing and to whom you're being patronising and aggressive but you won't give up and admit it, will you?

I would have thought that the majority of people that don't have the mmr, is because of fucking autism.

Oh and he was taught yes and no in that way as well.
Teaching yes and no:

(1) Hold up a picture of a dog
(2) say 'is this a chair',
(3) provide yes no symbols,
(4) physically prompt child's hand to no,
(5) reward.
(6) And repeat.

In our case for two years before ds1 understood.

That's what vaccination decisions are about in our house.

Just as guilty as the people at whom you're swearing. (I really shouldn't post on Mumsnet when I'm supposed to be working, it results in too many typos).

well that's true hazard - I've said it before but rubella entered this house from a vaccinated child (we stayed in for the entire infectious period - yes before the rash came out - and didn't spread it anywhere).

U and A - I've tried to be patient and understand where you are coming from, but I find the tone of your posts offensive, unpleasant, rude and arrogant to boot.

I corrected you when you seemed not to realise that some kinds of autism are brain damage. Of course they are! The brain doesn't function properly, so the child is brain damaged. For whatever reason.

Maybe if you had a child who at 11, can't convey information, can't dress herself, eat by herself or do anything by herself and requires constant restraint when outdoors you might understand that some children with autism are brain damaged. May I suggest you educate yourself and stop swearing at people??

There is evidence that a rare side effect of the MMR is encephalitis. Encephalitis can result in some forms of brain damage. However there is no evidence that encephalitis can lead to autism. Study after study has searched for a link and not found one. So having a sibling with autism is not a reason for not vaccinating.

Seeker - autism is not one thing. Therefore I would suggest it's very hard to find a link to something which presents in many ways and which may have many causes.

i'm fed up of going over and over and over.

please read my OP again.

I'm not going to post again after this because i have already answered your silly questions before.

i have said that not all brain damage is autism. that it is possible to have a damaged brain without autism being involved.
that the people i was referring to in my OP (and every other fucking post since) are those who believe they have no social responsibility towards vaccinating their child.
the ones who believe that the herd immunity is someone else's responsibility.

now you're just nit-picking and splitting hairs and sounding very petty and ridiculous for it.

herpes encephalitis is a known cause of autism

'So having a sibling with autism is not a reason for not vaccinating.'

Easy for you to say if you don't have that situation yourself, seeker.

If you have one child that is genetically predisposed to environmental triggers then it's possible your other children will also have that predisposition.

thank you seeker - that's better than how i said it.

Except that seeker is wrong. Herpes encephalitis is an accepted cause of autism.

Of course it's easy for me to say! It's a completely hideous situation to be in. And actually, if the only people who weren't vaccinated were the people with recognised medical reasons and the siblings of people with autism, then we'd probably still have decent herd immunity......

As the OP says, it's the many who don't read the science properly. Or who prefer homeopathy or Flower remedies. They are the ones who are putting others in danger.

But herpes encephalitis is not a side effect of MMR.

It doesn't exactly help that the health authorities have absolutely no idea how many people have received a measles vaccine as they have no record of those who paid for singles. A large number is my guess. Oh how much easier it would be if they had continued to allow people a choice.

You said there is no evidence that encephalitis can lead to autism. Herpes encephalitis is known to and there are cases in the literature of cases of encephalitis of unknown origin also leading to autism.

Anyway encephalitis aside, which is a very direct route, there is a lot of mounting evidence that an aberrant immune response is involved in a decent number of autism cases (specifically inflammation). The exact way this happens is currently poorly understood, and there are quite a few different models (and it may be that they're all right in some way for different groups of kids). I personally watch the research with interest. Obviously.