All of you who CHOOSE not to vaccinate your children

[UniqueAndAmazing]

Do you realise that's the reason why there's now an epidemic of measles in Wales?

You know children with auto-immune problems, children with cancers, children with allergies that mean they can't be medicated, children who react badly to drugs?
You know them? They're suffering because of you not wanting to vaccinate your child.

You have no medical reason for not vaccinating, but plenty of reasons TO vaccinate.

You are causing a whole generation of children to be endangered from a preventable disease.

Measles can be fatal
(that means it can kill )

Im I'm a scientist to me the evidence for vacation is a no brainer. However, I also believe in freedom for the individual. I think making anything compulsory has to be thought very careful

It's not the very small number of people with personal experiences that anger me.

It's the educated mothers who should know better, who jump on the bandwagon and the journalists who encourage them.

I attempted to answer Tailtwister's question on Saturday at 8.20pm if anyone's interested

and i said that those without medical reasons should morally see it as their duty to make sure their children's vaccinations (and their own) are up-to-date, so that those who cannot protect themselves can be protected

My point about grey areas is that some people don't officially have a medical reason. But as far as they are concerned they do.

Provide the option of single vaccines and then it will only be those who are totally against vaxination that won't get their children vaccinated.

Seeker. 'Jabs' was the general terminology used when my children were at the age of getting them. I do know that the correct medical terminology is vaccination.

Mandragora - I don't necessarily believe the government has the best interests of the population at heart at all times but what I actually meant was that the government is more concerned about disease control overall than it is about individual cases of vaccine damage.

Yes sorry Lottie, my comment was a bit facetious, you're clearly not daft.

I do wonder what their main motivation is and often I think it comes down to cost.

15% of 11-16 year olds may not have had MMR, but how many have had singles? The figures are a nonsense without that information. It may be that teenagers aren't rushing forwards to get immunised because they already have been - just with monovalents.

And what a pity David Salisbury wasn't able to confirm of deny the report I saw (either on bbc or broadsheet) saying 25% getting measles in this outbreak had been vaccinated (it was presented as a positive for vaccination '75% have not been') but that figure seems high to me and I would like to get a look at the actual figures broken down by age group & vaccination status really - proper vaccination status, not MMR status.

Amandine - the GP should also have explained to you that if the vaccination doesn't work it will be because you dd has antibodies to measles still (from you). If she doesn't it should work. The issue with doing it early is that you have to get it done again - at 15 months - and then pre-school.

Oh to be certain that vaccination was definitely the right thing to do, oh yes I remember those days :goes back to trying to teach teenage son the meaning of the words neck, shoulder, thumb and chest it's only been 3 weeks of trying so far: (he got ankle & elbow straight away so not quite sure what's so hard about neck)

I am not sure that there is a big difference of opinion here. The pro vaccination people say that the default position should be vaccination both for the benefit of your own DC and to protect others. They are generally against mandatory vaccination.

Those whose DC have a medical issue or a potential predisposition to one which means that they have been advised not to vaccinate or they are more worried about it than they would be if their child was healthy and had no such predisposition have a difficult choice. But the OP and others support that choice whatever it is. No-one is judging them and nor should they.

Pag
"But that is the problem. It's not a black and white issue.
I have many Drs who believe DD should not be vaccinated yet i could easily find some who would say I could go ahead."

but that's when you exercise your decision brain. you can only make the final decision based on what's best for you and your family.
If there are medical reasons not to, then you make the final decision.
That's the black and white bit, not the thinking about it, not the actual reasons.
But I stand by I cannot accept people who have no medical worries not doing it - they believe the herd will offer the protection without realizing that they are the herd.

"The 'justify your reasons to my satisfaction' tone on here is awful."

and that was expressly what I said I wasn't doing.

hazardlamps
i'm 36, so a long time ago, although i did have a tetanus booster in 2000.

DD is 16 months and had her MMR etc about 2 months ago.

Amber
"My point about grey areas is that some people don't officially have a medical reason. But as far as they are concerned they do. "

like someone else said, the list of official reasons is very very narrow, probably precisely to avoid this.
But I am including anyone who has actual, proper worries about it, not just CBA or debunked theories (unless at the time of the report and siblings), or drinking lemon juice or rolling in herbs.

Like I said, my DD having eczema was a medical worry. In my case I decided it was worth the risk. Others might not have agreed, in which case, fine.

Chompie - exactly.
perfectly put.

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread.

So apologies if these have been mulled over and discussed.

I read the GMC findings on Andrew wakefield (twice) and i know i haven't got a scientific brain, but i only found ethical reasons for him being discredited.

I have researched this long and hard, having 4 children and one being born in the middle of all the furore.

Will post some links. Food for thought maybe.

lawsuits

courtcase

dr singh

dr singh again

negative findings

independent article

I could go on, as there is more. But as long as i can research and find these things out for myself, i will not believe the mmr hype, iie, it's safe.

I choose single vaccinations which i pay for.

"i'm 36, so a long time ago, although i did have a tetanus booster in 2000."

And when did you last have a titer test to ensure that your vaccination had actually worked and/or that you were still immune?

Or are you just relying on luck that your vaccination worked and is still working and that you're not potentially just as "fucking selfish" as those who decide not to vaccinate for any reason other than those which meet your approval?

UniqueAndAmazing - do you personally know people who have admitted they decided not to vaccinate just because? Because I really don't think many people like that exist. I appreciate you may know some - I'm asking because I myself don't. I would think that people who don't vaccinate mostly do have a good reason for not doing so.

I don't know the background to the situation in Swansea. But is it really the case that many parents there just decided not to vaccinate without any thought? It seems to me that most people who decide not to use MMR seek singles themselves - this won't be included in the statistics so it will look as if fewer people have had the vaccinations.

So surely it is possible that a outbreak has occured in Swansea in spite of the fact that most people are vaccinated?

where did the outbreak come from?

I agree with the op.
700 cases of measles since November in Swansea alone!
People need to start vaccinating their kids now to stop it getting worse!
My baby is 6 months old (too young for his mmr) & everyone who hasn't vaccinated is putting him at risk.

I know 6 families who have not vaccinated. One has been advised not to for medical reasons- I won't go into details. One has an older sibling with autism and have not vaccinated the younger ones. The other 4 are just bonkers. One family doesn't believe vaccination works at all, one have religious reasons, and two believe believe that homeopathy is a more effective method of protecting their children against illness.

No, I wouldn't force a JW to have a blood transfusion. But I sure as hell would stop them denying their child one.

'but that's when you exercise your decision brain. you can only make the final decision based on what's best for you and your family.
If there are medical reasons not to, then you make the final decision.'

You're being very patronising assuming that none of us have thought of that, OP.

And very facile about the whole thing imo

and very aggressive with it.

You're being very patronising assuming that none of us have thought of that, OP

And very facile about the whole thing imo

and very aggressive with it

Agree.

As I said, obviously there are people who think about it properly and make proper decisions based on the facts. I don't think anyone is talking about those people.

Well, I'm certainly not. I'm talking about the "ooh,I don't know- I heard something bad once so I'm not going to risk it" the "these aren't serious illnesses" and "I'd rather rely on carrot juice and homeopathy" brigade. Among others.