All of you who CHOOSE not to vaccinate your children

[UniqueAndAmazing]

Do you realise that's the reason why there's now an epidemic of measles in Wales?

You know children with auto-immune problems, children with cancers, children with allergies that mean they can't be medicated, children who react badly to drugs?
You know them? They're suffering because of you not wanting to vaccinate your child.

You have no medical reason for not vaccinating, but plenty of reasons TO vaccinate.

You are causing a whole generation of children to be endangered from a preventable disease.

Measles can be fatal
(that means it can kill )

Mrs DeVere
"I will call someone names and give them hell if they have a child with an infectious disease (that can be vaccinated against or not) who takes their child out and exposes others to that disease.

I wonder if any of the people screaming at the non vaccers ever turn up the chicken pox threads telling people like me we are being hysterical for telling people to keep their kids indoors?"

AGREE
completely and utterly - I think it's ridiculously hypocritical to vaccinate your child so that they and the whole community can be protected, and then send your infectious child around the community, endangering it wholesale!
I really cannot understand people who are determined to deliberately infect anyone with a disease. (being as vaccinations are not the full-blown disease, and therefore are an entirely different thing. Some vaccinations are a very mild form of the disease and some aren't a form of the disease at all, but something known to create the same immunity to it)
Especially something like chicken pox, which if contracted by a pregnant woman can be very dangerous

yy WouldbeHarrietVane - it's situations like yours that are so difficult to decide what's best to do.

sorry Harriet - was replying to your first post.

No, you obviously don't get it - I'm saying that lottie is one of the people that has an understandable medical cause/reason not to vaccinate if she chooses.
I'm not talking about people who believe that because of medical history, there is an increased risk to their child. I'm talking about people who have NO SUCH REASON TO DOUBT.

Mandra - the ones who really aren't sure can think long and hard about it. My main "gun pointing" is at those who choose not to because they don't want to, because of airy-fairy reasons mentioned earlier and because they don't want to risk their own child's health because who knows whether they'll be the 0.1% that has a bad reaction.

Responsible people will look at that 0.1% and say that everyone has the same risk, all things being equal and choose to vaccinate.
But that only works if that child hasn't already got problems or had reactions.

eg: my DD has eczema. I looked at the information about the jabs she was going for before she went to see if there was anything that might cause a bad reaction due to the predisposition for manky skin (and not knowing what has caused it)
I decided that I prefer my child not to get a really nasty disease instead, and prefer that she isn't the reason why a child like Mrs DeVere's could be fatally infected with that disease.
Thinking both of my child and others.
that's what modern human beings are designed to do.

There may be some parents who choose not to vax for airy fairy reasons but I'd wager they are in a very small minority.

no, the point is Harriet - i am not pointing fingers at people and demanding they give me reasons for their choice.

I'm telling those people who choose not to vaccinate without good reason that they should feel guilty and ashamed for doing so. and that they should vaccinate their children.

I'm not being a vigilante about it - I'm telling people to think carefully about the choices they have made and how they affect other people.

The very fact that you feel like you need to justify it to me, means that you care a heck of a lot more than they do.

(and actually, in your circumstance I would vote No too)

I think it needs discussion and isn't pointless stiring.

There was an epedemic in France in 2011 they mentioned on the Welsh Report last night. 6 children died. 5 were teenagers.

If this thread being in active conversations prompts a few families to get vaccinated then thats fantastic.

thank you MisMaid - that's all I was hoping for too.

I think you should take note OP that there have been posts from people who's children have medical issues that mean either they have been advised not to or have chosen not to have MMR. Yet even they have said they can understand why some parents are/were concern and don't judge them for it.

Also you have sais in relation to some that you get why they made their choices due to theoir childrens medical history. However they are in the grey area where no HCP would officially say 'don't have MMR' so it was down to those parents to make that choice. Some would I suppose call them airy fairy too because in the absence of any medical document or solid research papers it just comes down to parental choice doesn't it?

Point is, it isn't that black and white and I really don't think it comes from a care less or selfish angle. This is about worried parents and a gov that doesn't give a shit.

i think you're splitting hairs rather too far here.

I said that people who choose not to vaccinate are putting lives at risk.
I said that people who believe they have medical reasons not to vaccinate should feel they are protected by those who don't have those reasons.
and i said that those without medical reasons should morally see it as their duty to make sure their children's vaccinations (and their own) are up-to-date, so that those who cannot protect themselves can be protected.

that's pretty black and white.

But that is the problem. It's not a black and white issue.
I have many Drs who believe DD should not be vaccinated yet i could easily find some who would say I could go ahead.

Telling parents what to do, the hectoring and name calling changes no ones mind. It's just sanctemonious hectoring mostly.
If you want to change minds you discuss and persuade. All the threads on here are 1 part social concern and 9 parts gleeful superiority.
The 'justify your reasons to my satisfaction' tone on here is awful.

I can't understand this argument. I live in a country where vaccinations are reported by GPs to the ministry of health and anyone not vaccinating is chased up by the government. Children without the required vaccination history can be excluded form starting school. Vaccinations include bcg at birth and hep a and b as well as mmr.

I am moving to another country halfway round the planet that has exactly the same system.

Neither of these countries has any backlash or fear about mmr and where we live at the moment, there is a 6 in 1 vaccination. The uk seems very behind in vaccinating in comparison and choosing to allow children to die from an illness when there is a simple vaccine to give immunity seems positively medieval.

If people aren't vaccinating for valid reasons (e.g fragile health of child, affected sibling), then why are the numbers of unvaccinated children in Wales so huge? If people really, truly do believe that their child is at risk from the vaccination why are they now queuing for hours to receive it? Surely if they really thought the vaccine would cause harm they still wouldn't want it, despite the epidemic.

That's an integration point tail twister.
Why Wales?
Where next?

Good point, tailtwister.

And people who don't believe people don't vaccinate for airy fairy reasons, you should try living in a trendy middle class area. I suggest Brighton, or Whitstable or Islington........

Seeker, I perfectly believe that some have airy fairy reasons. I just think talking to everyone as if they only have airy fairy reasons is unhelpful and often unkind.

If people are wafty you won't change thir mind.if they are not you are just making an awful situation worse.

Sorry.i am going to disappear.
These threads are always upsetting so I should bugger off.

Excuse my interruption.

They're hoping to vaccinate 70,000 in Wales. From recollection 30,000 fall into the over 5 category. The population isn't that large so thats a high number.

15% of 11-16 year olds in Monmouthshire haven'thad both doses of MMR. Thats a shocking statistic. The wales by agefigures have really surprised me as being so high too.

But nobodynis saying that everybody has wafty reasons. Nobody from the OP onwards.

It does make me a bit cross- sorry, Pagwatch- that there seems to be a view that you can't even talk about this without being accused of disrespect.

Some people obviously have excellent reasons for not having their children vaccinated. That's what is so very annoying about the people who have crap reasons. They are putting the children with good reasons at risk. And they deserve to have their ideas challenged.

Unique, how long ago did you get your children vaccinated? And how long ago were you jabbed?

Sorry, posted too soon, and it's very difficult to challenge the people with crap reasons if the people with good reasons are going to get upset and offended and think they are being tqrgettted, when practically every post from the OP onward has made a point of saying that they are not.

Interesting- if trivial linguistic point. The anti vaccination people always say "jab" and "jabbed". A constant drip of negative language.

Actually seeker, I smiled to myself when I re-read my last post because I realised how aggressive "jabbed" sounds. I don't normally use the term, if I'm not saying "vaccinated" I usually say "vaxed".

Pag I'm certainly not gleefully smug, what I am is concerned. I've got an 8mo who until 2 weeks ago was too young for the MMR. She's had it now, but I was warned by the GP that her age means that there is a good chance it won't work. I don't want my baby to suffer because other people haven't vaccinated their children if there is no medical reason not to.