GP not being very helpful regarding Circumcision

[Debster7808]

I went to see the GP recently at the first check-up after DS2 was born, and I said that because DS1 was circumcised (-he was born in US, where it kind of gets done as a routine just after boys are born-), we wanted to get DS2 done as well, while he's still a newborn. I was really surprised when the GP tried to talk me out of getting it done, which means that I'm a bit lost as to where next to turn to get this done. I can understand that circumcision isn't available on the NHS, which is fine, but if I want to go private, don't I need a GP referral? Should I just seek a second GP's opinion?
Anyone have any experience of getting their boys circumcised in a culture that generally doesn't do it?

An HONOR?!
To hold a baby down whist it is being mutilated?
To appease an invisible friend?!

I have never heard anything so disgusting in my life.

3LittleFrogs your description Has made me feel physically sick.
i hope against hope OP reads your post.

MrsMicawber, how is it that everyone who advocates circumcision as a jewish ritual says that the effect on the baby is minimal, less than having a nappy changed, etc, and yet numerous (non-US) healthcare professionals, such as midwives, say babies are in shock, go blue, scream, etc?

I would think that Jewish babies must somehow be genetically conditioned to accept circumcision happily, except that another friend of mine (non jewish) had a baby with her jewish DP and agreed to circumcision. Her baby did scream, terribly, was unhappy, panicky and jumpy for days, and has been left with half a foreskin as the job wasn't done properly. My friend has never forgiven herself, and her relationship with her DP has never recovered, either. Though I think it is equally her repsonsibility. She should not have agreed when in her heart of hearts she didn't agree with it. She was being somewhat PC about her partner's culturla heritage - as you say earlier.

Do people forget the pain of their baby screaming, in the same way that people allegedly forget the pain of childbirth?

Ah yes. Honour. Such a caring concept.

Abortion obviously effects someone else apart from the mother, the father the rest of the family siblings etc?

Not to mention the actual foetus

So I still don't understand.

In the 80s women in labour were regularly strapped down in some places too.

Practices in the 80s and cowboy oops or anykind without anaesthetic are not acceptable on anyone. But to bring that up in a thread about circumcision in the UK by qualified professionals using anaesthetic is like bringing up the danger of backstreet abortions 30 years ago.

Nailak - this thread is not about abortion. Why don't you start another thread?

i was replying to a post.

the reason i am posting on this thread is because i feel like anyone who is pro circumcision is being bullied, in a way that wouldnt be allowed on other subjects, so i am comparing it to other subjects in order to understand why this rail roading and persuasion to change beliefs is acceptable on this thread concerning circumsison but the same is not acceptable on other threads.

and i am yet to have an answer that i can understand.

nailak - have you been on any of the abortion threads? There usually are a few pro-lifers who rock up to try and change the OP's mind or heap coals of fire on their heads, damn them to hell if they've actually had one, that kind of thing.

To me the difference is that a baby who is circumcised has to live with that for the rest of his (or her) life. A foetus who is terminated doesn't. Does that help?

Jewish circumcisions aren't necessarily the full amputation that happen in hospitals though MrsM! If they did to baby boys in the desert what's done in hospitals then the death rate would be much higher than it is today and it wouldn't be done in someone's arms.

People have mentioned the money US doctors make out of it, but so far I've not seen anyone mention the money they make from SELLING them! They are such rich and useful bits of rubbish throw away skin that a lot of money is made from them - for medical research, grafts and to go into that lovely white stuff you like to smear on your face (I'm talking about the stuff in tubs, you buy it in shops, get your heads out the gutter!)

It is possible both sides of the pond for people to be sued for circumcision. Now that female circ has been made illegal in the US (BTW, they tried to pass a law that allowed female circ to be done as just a pin prick to allow it to be done for religious reasons without mutilating the child but that was too barbaric) there is a law that automatically makes it illegal for boys too but it will take those boys growing up and applying it to see the affects of it. The law is that you can't make laws that don't apply to all.

In the UK "Any surgery that is performed without the patient?s personal consent and without therapeutic need is clearly an assault. Any cut made without consent or therapeutic need 'that breaks the continuity of the skin' is a wounding under the (Offences Against the Person) Act 1861."

Here is an article about parents in Finland being found guilty over circumcision

Foreskins being sold

One of many little boys it went wrong for

One of the many babies who's died from circumcision

Malawi rules out circumcision as AIDS prevention

How much blood does a baby need to lose to bleed to death?

4 year old NZ boy injured trying to escape from circumcision

I could go on but there's been enough links in this thread that are probably being ignored too.

My OH was circumcised for medical reasons, they did everything they could to not go there but were eventually left with no choice. I've never known a Brit so against RIC. He has a genetic condition and one of his sons does too, when I was pregnant we had to know if I was carrying a boy so they could be on the look out for signs that he'd be affected too. I was so grateful to have girls. As much as I love my OH who's fortunate enough not to have had a full amputation, I do notice the difference.

Something I never understood is the idea that it looks icky in it's natural state. So you're basically deciding that your son's future partners are going to be as shallow when it comes to sexual preference as you are? I'd rather teach my children to accept everyone no matter what they look like.

Bullied? Are you for real.?
Just how does that compare to having bits of your genitals sliced off?

he wanted his sons to look the same

What a lame excuse! I have a cleft lip, I think I will put my girls through an unnecessary op & all that goes with that, so they look the same as me. I wonder if a surgeon would cut their tummies too, so they have a section scar like mine...

So it will look the same is a lame barbaric excuse to justify CUTTING your child's body.

Don't forget to get the surgeon to perform vasectomies on them too, if Daddy has one. After all, can't have them being different individuals,. can we

My OH said he and his brother never noticed that he looked different, I was the one who told OH his dad has the same genetic condition as him! (Chatting with his mum, I don't know his dad to ask!)

why is it ok for lisaro to say that to me but its not ok for someone to say ANYONE WHO HAS AN ABORTION FOR REASONS WHICH ARE NOT MEDICAL ARE MURDERING THEIR CHILD? ANYONE WHO CONDONES ABORTION FOR THESE REASONS SHOULD NOT BEABLE TO BREED AND SHOULD UNDERGO FORCED STERILIZATION TO STOP THEM KILLING CHILDREN.

As you can see i dont get it.

i understand thumbwitchs point.

lisaro, you know if you really wanted me to understand, you would take the time to explain, rather then ranting and insulting me.

thumbwitch, i remember one where someone told the op she would regret it and a lot of other mnetters came on saying they hadn't regreted theirs.

similarly i know a lot of circumcised men who are glad they were circumcised at a young age so they didnt have to do it at a time when they were older and recovery was more. Including my DH.

I in no way believe that about people who have abortions BTW it was just a comparison, if I someone said that on a thread where a woman was asking for advice about abortion providers it would in no way, rightly so be acceptable.

nailak - it's you that's ranting - repeatedly. You're trying to make your sad little point over and over again by cheapening the abuse to children. Either start your own thread or stop your boring repetetive drivel. It's self explanatory, but unfortunately you're the type to keep shouting until people shut up, thus thinking you've won, when all you've done is deafened people to hearing your message again. Off to bed now, goodnight, and keep to the OP.

indeed, i actually find lisaro speaking sense at last...let's keep to the original post.

Anyone else have some useful ideas on how the OP can go about getting this medical procedure done? I do believe that was her question.

I don't get this point about men being glad it was done as a child and not when they can remember it - why do they think they would need it done? We aren't have major issues, the NHS isn't collapsing under the strain of all the foreskins that are needing to be cut off the adults who weren't done as children.

Women are at greater risk of a lot of infections than men. We get more UTIs which is supposedly a benefit of RIC and they're a lot worse than men get them. The risk of penille cancer is tiny, especially compared to breast cancer.

They don't take loads of looking after "when intact don't retract, only clean what is seen" you're supposed to clean them like a finger. A girl probably needs more cleaning. There's no need for parents to retract or anyone other than the boy himself which is a major cause of intact "complications". As he gets older he doesn't need to use cleaning products, just pull the skin back and use water (and do boys really need encouragement to play with themselves?)

nailak

An unwanted pregnancy can be mentally & emotionally damaging for a woman. Being made to continue a pregnancy & raise a child you don't want leaves unmentionable scars for both. Having a father who, after persuading her to go ahead with the pregnancy ditched his family when that baby was 5, leaving her to be bought up in a home where all she felt was emotional battery. Mentally scared by years of not being loved by her mother, a mother who never said I love you, a mother who left her to wake from an op on her face at the age of 9 & wouldn't come see her at the hospital when she begged her to, all because she didn't want her & didn't bond with her. If you like, I'll pm you the effects of living with a mother who didn't want me for 18yrs. Yes, it probably would have been better if she was allowed to abort me, she wasn't & it wreaked 2 lives. We haven't spoken for 20yrs.

Having a termination is far far removed from someone taking the decision to cut a baby for no reason.

You have to be stupid not to see that!

Pocksrule

Odd how there is no address to be found on that website

just because the baby is crying, it doesn't mean it is huge amounts of pain/going through a traumatic event

WHAT??? NOT TRAUMATIC?? It isn't a fucking picnic you are talking about. It is having the most delicate part of it's body CUT! Get real!

It's late, but before I go to bed I feel I must contribute (although it is quite sad that I've had to namechange for this and related threads).

I am Jewish and my two ds are circumcised. As I posted recently on another thread, there was not much crying - in fact the crying was really from the nappy being removed. Of course I was nervous - what mother wouldn't be? - but I'm pretty sure they did not go into shock etc. - I was there and I'm their mother- I should know. Of course I gave them milk and calpol afterwards, and took care over their dressings etc., but didn't notice any further pain on peeing etc., slept well. etc. I have definitely seen more crying form immunisations (sometimes more, sometimes, like the circumcision, none) - but I can certainly say that I was more worried before than after.

Have been to many other circumcisions and have witnessed the same.

Now I can understand other people's reactions - if I wasn't Jewish I would be in the same position of ignorance (not meant in an insulting way, just factual - i.e. I would assume that most of you have not witnessed a circumcision), but maybe you should think a little more carefully and truthfully.

Agree some comparisons with abortion should be made - why is it fine to kill a baby in the womb for non-medical reasons and claim that the only person affected is the mother? What about the child that can feel pain the womb?
(I am not anti-abortion by the way - just think people need to think a bit more).

Also, it may be that the general hospital atmosphere might be more frightening to a newborn at the time of circumcision (Jewish brises are commonly performed at home surrounded by family and friends and it is a happy occasion). Maybe this is the reason you have witnessed more crying in hospitals?

I should go to bed now.

and sorry if last post not making enough sense - it is nearly 3am!

What about the child that can feel pain the womb

Firstly, it isn't a child in the womb, the largest majority of terminations are before 6 weeks, when it is a foetus THAT CANNOT FEEL.

tell me, all those for circumcision, do you use physical punishment on your sons? Smacking etc? Probably not, why? because it hurts & holds no purpose, right?

Yet you mutilate their penises. To make them look nice. OK!