New Home for the Chalet School

[Vintagejazz]

Welome everyone. Dormy lists on the board as usual and I know you are all hoping like mad that you are all not in the same dormitory as Mary Lou. But only some of you can be the un lucky ones and the rest of us will have to make do with each other.

Oh, and the good news is that Joey has sabotaged discovered something wrong with the roof on her house and believe it or not, the only property available to rent is right next door to the school.

Shit Hurrah, lucky us.

Got to go. Matey wants me for unpacking.

Tbh I find it really hard to get much of an impression of Joey as a parent. Likewise her relationship with Jack.

I'm not sure whether her spineless-jellyfish-shoplifting-accusation moment is proof positive of weakness, but then I've not read CGGU to know the nature of this weakness she's given there. I can definitely picture her sticking resolutely with an awful marriage because she's so dutiful (and Catholic), and I imagine a marriage that bad is enough to reduce anyone to weakness... :(

I was reading School At on the tube today and found it v v hard to not burst out laughing when they're singing under the window for Madame's birthday, following our excellent celebration of it on here. Madge is so lovely. I'd struggle to give any impression of gratitude if someone decided to start my birthday by waking me up when I was "sleeping the sleep of the justly weary".

WTAF? Anna has just spilt a pan of boiling jam over her hand & arm. Rosli has treated it by wiping the jam off and dunking the arm in some flour. That's a jam roly poly she's trying to make, surely?

Because of what we see, we don't see a normal mother/daughter relationship between Joey and her dc when small as when we see them it's almost always around others where she's usually trying to show them off like a new handbag.
When we do catch glimpses of them on their own it's often very much Joey coming in and saying a nice praising sentence each and then leaving them to Anna or whoever is looking after them.
With the triplets when older she often seems to be one of those parents who really wants to be best friend rather than mum (or mamma!), and I can't think of any real interaction between Joey and the other dc when older except in one of the holiday books-Joey goes to the Oberland I think. And in that they're pretty independent of her.

There are times when she seems quite callous towards them-when she packs Mike off to weekly board with Winnie when he's only about 6 or 7yo; when she (nor Jack) don't see Margot, despite her crying herself ill, until ML comes round-it would have only taken them half an hour to pop in and comfort her, was it really that important they didn't leave ML; the oft discussed episode of appendicitis or Mike going down the cliff are ones I can think of offhand.

But some of these are very much of the time (boys would standardly go away to board at 8yo for example) and there's no doubt that EBD did mean to portray her as a loving and very much hands on mum.

We have got far too serious especially Robin don't have that user name unless you are willing to worship Joey. are you a tad jealous that you were airbrushed out of the series my lamb! You had a starring role in Adrienne so stop being bitey.

Agree Dewee tis all time and context and EDB wasn't a mother so may not have have the feelings we put on actions in the slightest.

Nell did you conceal the book on the tube behind a newspaper or was it In full view.

I was on the tube today and would have hailed a fellow chalet girl.

We need to watch Rob though she's fiesty.

I was thinking last night about the apendicitis episode where Charles goes to Len who tries to deal with it, and I have a not totally dissimilar episode from my childhood.

Dm and df had started playing tennis, they used to go down to the courts on a weekend, and play singles while we 3 dc (aged about 2 (db) 6 (me) and 9(dsis) ) played in the woods next to the courts.
One rather cold November day we went and db wasn't totally well, so dsis went to do her usual passion of climbing trees, and after a bit db was obviously struggling and I took him into the car with me (no heating). We didn't take toys as we usually played in the woods, so we had nothing to do, so I kept db happy by playing follow the road in our AA road atlas, and fed him a sweet I found in the glove box. I came out two or three times to say I thought he was getting worse.
Eventually we went home, after well over an hour in the freezing car, mostly because it was getting dark. Within a couple of hours he was rushed to hospital with his first asthma attack.

Now dm was a total worrier. Even now if I say I'm a bit unwell on the phone she's likely to keep phoning at short intervals to check I'm okay. So it certainly wasn't lack of caring. I slightly wonder why she wasn't concerned that time, because to my 6yo eyes he was clearly getting worse. And I probably made it worse, because the sweet I fed him almost certainly had azodyes in, and it turned out he was allergic to them.

But the one which always seems totally uncaring to me is where both Joey and Jack stay with ML despite her being unconsious, and Margo having made herself ill. There must have been other smaller ones at home too who were abandoned. I suppose it was meant to show how compassionate Joey was, or perhaps how wonderful ML was, but to me, I can't imagine not being able to spare half an hour out of the 2-3 days ML was ill, particualrly as Margot was only down the corridor to visit.
And particularly as Jack uses ignoring his dc as a punishment, what on earth was Margot going to think other than she was being blamed?

I can't really work out what EBD is trying to say there: I suppose it does make sense that it's a demonstration of Joey's compassion, and how she mothers everyone as long as she's specially chosen them rather than just her own children, but she's also clear that Margot isn't OK. I can't imagine it's a lesson in how mothers can be tugged in every which way and sometimes misjudge things (though if I am trying to be understanding towards Joey here, this is my best effort). Is the idea that Margot gets a bit of a punishment, but 'only' a few days, rather than indefinitely?
It is also reminiscent of Sybil, and again I don't think it's entirely clear what EBD thinks about that: it seems understandable (imo) that Madge doesn't want to leave Josette who is potentially dying, and EBD specifically says that Madge has forgiven Sybil instantly anyway, but Jem doesn't go and see Sybil until I think Matey tells him he has to because she's making herself ill. Again, Jem uses ignoring his children as punishment. But the other difference here is that EBD is very clear that Sybil is at fault, whereas Margot isn't in the ML business, is she? So the similarity is puzzling. I wonder if EBD experienced her mother ignoring her for lengthy periods when her brother was unwell? I'm not suggesting that she's deliberately talking about these things here but it would make sense of something that otherwise seems quite confused.

I feel really quite sad for 6yo DeWee trying to look after an increasingly poorly toddler under those circs. :( The variety of people's reactions to the appendicitis episode always interests me (my own take is that it reflects very poorly on both Jo and Jack as parents), and I wonder how much of that comes down to people's own experiences (I am an over-responsible eldest myself).

That also reminds me of something I've been meaning to ask - Jo's childhood frailty, in which every slight cold becomes a chest infection, the cold air is something to be feared, environment makes a huge difference, exertion causes problems etc: this sounds incredibly like asthma, doesn't it? Especially the fact that she is expected to outgrow it (and indeed does). But asthma did exist as a diagnosis then, and EBD definitely doesn't use it to describe Jo. Am I just imagining this diagnosis, as a result of having an asthmatic child? I almost think that anyone presenting with all those symptoms would be more likely to be incorrectly diagnosed with asthma even if it was actually something else, iyswim...

The funny thing Nell is that I didn't find it a scary or upsetting incident. I remember it as being a lovely cuddly time with my little brother who needed me. I also didn't really realise how bad he was, I don't think, although it was only half way home that he started into a full blown attack.
I was also at times rather inclined to exaggerate for effect wonder who dd2 takes after so that probably had a bearing on why my dp didn't react to me saying that he was getting worse.
I do remember telling them off when they got back into the car though. And df drove rather wildly to get back home to phone the doctor.
Interestingly though dm had no memory of this happening. I referred to it at one point a few year back when they were discussing when they'd started playing tennis, and thought it was several years later.

I wouldn't necessarily think asthma for Joey. I know a young lad who used to get bronchitus (sp?) every time he had a mild cold, and a few times when he didn't too. Talking 5-6 times every winter. He was eventually tested for cystic fibrosis, which thankfully he didn't have, but he was also tested for asthma and they didn't think he had that either. he has now (in his teens) mostly grown out of being that bad, although I think it's a rare winter he doesn't have it at all.
It may be a bit like glue ear, where they expect a child to grow out of it by about age 10yo, because the ear tubes have grown wide enough for the ear wax not to get stuck.

I think EBD just thinks general frailty makes Jo interesting, and attractive. Especially in the early days, the physically robust characters like Polly, Corney or Hilary are a bit unimaginative and plain. The frailer ones like Jo, Amy or Robin are sensitive and attractive.

Elisaveta's right about frailty/romanticism of delicacy. Look at all the romantic faints or near-faints where someone 'sways on their feet', and are steadied/caught by someone more robust. In the later books it's Miss Annersley who does it, but every single headmistress does it at one point or another, even Mademoiselle. Jo does it every 5 minutes.

I've heard several times Joey compared to Jo March from Little Women. But as far as the frailty goes she's definitely a Beth.

I often feel the frailty is used to show how much Joey's adored by everyone. Things like in Rivals when Joey and the other girl whose name I've forgotten Maureen? are both seriously ill, no one is worrying about the other girl really. Although the other girl apparently was left with a weak heart and died young, so was obviously seriously ill, Joey was the one everyone was asking how she was.

Maria's meant to be beautiful, and she's the sports person, so must be fairly robust.

Has anyone here ever genuinely fainted from shock of news/relief? I know I go into shock very easily, but I never have even come close to it for that sort of thing.

I didn't know that, about Maureen eventually dying young. What book is that in, please?

And yeah, agreed on the romance of frailty. I think it also gives EBD licence to get all sentimental, in spite of repeatedly campaigning against sentimentalism. Interestingly, I found most of the frailty really difficult to bear as a child. I think this is why I did like Mary-Lou but never Jo. I admire robustness! Now I can be much more tolerant of it and even find the Robin quite sweet etc. Haven't got over my judgy-pants at Mlle just swaying and being carried off to bed when Eustacia runs away, though - total abdication of duty there.

I definitely think EBD saw something romantic and interesting about delicacy and general weak health.
But she was also very fond of people fainting and swooning and collapsing at any minor shock. Even Bride, who was generally a very robust and strong person, went all weak at the knees when someone trashed her study and had to be sent to bed by Miss Annersley.
Not to mention all of the girls crying themselves sick every time they were told off and ending up in the san.
I wonder was EBD herself a very strong brawny person who longed to be fragile and dainty and have people fussing around her?

I think it's in Kenya. When Maisie has written to Joey about Jo Scott, and she asks Jack to guess who has written, and he guesses Maureen. Joey says approximately "don't be stupid you know she dies ages ago, after the bad heart brought on by falling into the lake with me".

Chalet girls don't cry though: They weep like waterspouts-or they have an almost boyish dislike of tears.

^Nell did you conceal the book on the tube
behind a newspaper or was it In full view.
I was on the tube today and would have hailed
a fellow chalet girl.^
I missed this. I am afraid to say I do conceal the books or in this case it was on my ipad. I'm sure I shouldn't be so embarrassed, but I am...

I wonder was EBD herself a very strong brawny person who longed to be fragile and dainty and have people fussing around her?
I bet this was the case. I think it actually accounts for the way she's quite callous towards her robust characters who just have to cope - Bill in Gay, Jack and Gottfried in Exile.

Lols at Chalet girls never merely crying, btw. S'true.

The fainting thing is also just v typical of the genre, isn't it?

I would love to have the confidence to sit on a train reading a chalet school book in full view. It's obvious from this and other forums and blogs I've seen that a sizeable number of adults still enjoy reading children's books including school stories. It's a pity we all feel we have to keep it under wraps (literally).
In fact, if we were more open about it, there might even be a chance that the Chalet books would come back into print at affordable costs.

I thought Joey's frailty is a plot device initially as it gives Madge a reason for locating her school in the Alps.

And after that it gives Robin the excuse to sing the Red Sarafan at every opportunity

I've just seen in the baby names thread that someone is expecting quads

They haven't even included Josephine Mary in the list of potential names

Hmm. I think those quads might be as fictional as Josephine Mary's triplets. Anarchy and Rebel??

In fact I wonder does the OP read The Chalet School. Apparently her DH is one of quads and two of his sisters have given birth to triplets.

Think you're right Vintage

Apart from the names, her surname is Carter-Hunt

Obligatory, I've enjoyed all the fill-ins I've read. Of the ones you've listed, I'm least keen on Robin and Deira, but I'd be hard-put to it to decide which I like best out of the other three. Guides is near the beginning of the series, Muller twins is a few terms later, and Difficult Term is Armishire - so if you have a favourite era maybe choose on that basis? I think all three capture the period flavour very well.

I read my Chalet School books in full view - flaunt them, even! I've occasionally had interesting chats with complete strangers who see what I'm reading and tell me they used to love reading the books but don't admit to still being fans. If necessary I tell people that I collect early 20th century girls' fiction, but mostly I don't mind saying that I've always loved reading them and always will.

I don't get the Carter-Hunt reference from the dubious-sounding thread, can someone explain please?

Question: the SSM, in either of its incarnations - do we think EBD approved of it? Whilst I can totally see the appeal to a child reader (I was definitely most taken with it in New House as a child - dont think I'd read Princess ) it seems oddly anti-authority for EBD to approve of. And although I appreciate she has zero sympathy for Bad Adults, don't the heedless actions of the angry girls really just create more problems for the mistresses, with whom EBD usually feels most sympathy? But she doesn't seem to disapprove, really.

Nell, I suspect it relates to the problems Jeremy Hunt had with his name on Radio 4...

I just think EDB enjoyed the drama of illness and doctors.

She's obsessed with doctors after all.

I suppose a lot of oeople were described as delicate back in the day as their illnesses hadn't been properly diagnosed or treated pre NHS.

Her appendicitis, double shock 48 hour flu, measles and childbirth are book fillers and boy did she indulge in them all.

Interesting asthma reference Nell it could be something EDB witnessed but wasn't sure of.

I don't for a minute think She realises she portrays Joey or Jack or Jem as bad parents. On the contrary I think she feels they are exemplary.

They are so good in fact they extend their parenting to any of the girls that needs them and much is made of joeys loco parentis and unofficial mother to the school in general.

Dewee can you imagine now your parents would be regarded as neglectful. Mine used to leave us in the car or playing outside to go to the pub. We had crisps and coke and loved it.

Different times now aye.

If Joey had managed her Quads do you reckon they would have been girls or boys or a mixture? What do you think she would have called them??