Normal for a night nanny to be heavily asleep (not hear baby being sick etc)?

[newmummy100]

I've just employed a night nanny, her first night was last night for my 3 day old baby.

I was awake and heard my baby start crying (only just started) so I popped into her to check how things were going and she was getting out of bed and looked at baby as I was approaching and said 'oh, your baby has been sick'. He had been sick in his moses basket and she hadn't heard as she had been asleep. [I think he had been sick as we had agreed that she give him one formula feed in the night and I would do breastfeed at other times and she had given him 100ml of forumla - double what he has had so far - is this a bit much for a 3 day old?].

She was due to leave at 7am this morning, it was 7:15 and she hadn't gone to get me and I went in and she was fast asleep and I called her name about 10 times (loudly) before she woke up.

My question - do all night nannies sleep when the baby sleeps? i.e. is this just part of the role... I sort of thought that they may stay awake/watch tv etc or just doze.. not sleep and out for the count.

Thanks for your help.

thank you very much starexpat, and i am not going to take the credit for your breastfeeding, but thank you for the compliment I must change my name back !

I agree with the post-natal doula suggestion. She won't "take care" of the baby per se, but she will take care of you, DH, toddler and the house, etc. Her job is to help you so you can look after the baby and recover.

If you have daytime help, then you know no matter how hideous the night before may be that you can handle the next day. That will be a great relief. And you need daytime help to recover from your CS. DS won't understand why you can't pick him up, but if doula/helper gives him to you, sets him on sofa with you then he should be happy. You will be able to give DS more quality time and attention if someone else can feed him and distract him a bit when you are busy with baby.

I hope you haven't been scared off, newmummy. FWIW here is my advice:

1. Can you bring the new baby into bed with you? I would not worry about forming bad habits at this stage. It is all about getting through these first weeks and whatever works, works. Feeding lying down in the night is fantastic for your supply and hopefully you will get more sleep too (as you can sort of drop off while feeding)

1. I agree with during the day can someone take the new baby out for an hour or so, to give you some one on one time with your toddler. Can you involve your toddler in anything, e.g. bringing you a nappy for the baby or a muslin to burp him etc. And I also agree with always see to the toddler first if both are crying - the baby knows no different, the toddler is still young enough not to understand why he should wait.

1. I know this sounds a bit hippyish especially with bedsharing as well, but if you can get a decent sling, a wrap sling or a ring sling is good, then you can cuddle/feed the baby while doing something else with your toddler and the toddler should not feel so jealous of this because you are not actively paying the baby attention.

1. Relax! It really doesn't matter if you end up taking your toddler out in his pyjamas, or the house is a tip, or you are eating rubbish food. As I said above, anything that gets you through these first weeks is worth it.

You have come out of hospital very quickly after major surgery and you need help more in the day than at night ime.

The night nanny sounds horrendous. I currently have a night nanny 2 nights a week for my 3 week old, started last night so BF is fairly well established. She stays downstairs with him in his moses basket, reads, watches TV and sleeps when she gets home in the morning. I feed him till midnight and she wakes me up again at 6am to feed giving him some EBM in the night.

I was on my knees and have 2 other children and this is the only way I can function so I do sympathise and I do get 5 other nights to be up with the baby.

I would certainly second the other ideas of getting some help at home. If you could get someone to come in, give the house a tidy and spend some time with your big one or take the baby for a walk whilst you do something with her then I think that you'd find things much easier.

Far too much formula!!! And as for sleeping through being sick?! It's normal for night nannies to sleep but I never slept that well on duty anyway. Definitely not normal to sleep heavily!

Get rid of this night nanny. Definitely. But don't give up on the idea of help.

If you desperately need lots of help get a maternity nanny who will do 24/6 (and hopefully help out with your older one a little) who's experienced working with just post-natal mothers BUT they won't take care of the house etc so IMO your money is better spent elsewhere. It's an option if you feel you need very intensive support because baby is taking up a lot of time.

If you can get by with less then I would get a doula for a few hours a day and a good cleaner to do the heavy stuff.

IMO now isn't a great time to introduce a new carer for your 16month old. I would have someone who can watch and cuddle the baby so you spend some time with your older one. If you have to give a bottle of formula do it during the day, maybe have your 'help' do it and BF at night. After a while your older one may feel more comfortable going to the person you've got coming in, especially if they're prepared to do lots of fun active stuff. Your toddler won't pick nanny over you, you're his mummy and you're who he wants right now. I still remember my mother reading me endless stories when she BF my siblings but I was a bit older and more minded to listen to stories. What does your toddler really like doing? Can you have 'special' toys to keep him occupied while you BF? I agree about dealing with toddler first - babies are tougher than we give them credit for!

If you decide to go the Mother's Help route bear in mind:
MHs are often fairly inexperienced people wanting to get into nannying. They can be a lot of work and you will need to employ them (contract) and pay NI/tax if you pay over the threshold per week. You will probably get a lot of fairly rubbish applications from people who profess to love children but don't know one end of a baby from the other.
You may be very lucky and get a Granny type person who knows about running a household and having babies. Alternatively a temp who is already legitimately self-employed to avoid the hassle of employment but then you don't necessarily have guaranteed care as they can choose when/whether they work.

If you want to stick with a night nanny then get one experienced with BF mothers who's prepared to bring the baby in to you and settle them after you're done feeding.

Hope you feel more together soon and do keep posting, if not here then other places on MN because there's lots of help and advice on all sorts of things.

Thanks for all the terrific posts and advice. So I've:

1. Sacked the night nanny.

1. I'm interviewing 3 maternity nurses tomorrow that can come in from 9-6 Mon-Fri for the next three weeks. I've called them all and explained that I need someone that can help me involve the toddler, take the newborn when I'm not feeding so I can play with my toddler etc. I'm hoping that after three weeks my c-section pain may have let up and my hormones may have settled down (am a weepy mess, especially when toddler keeps rejecting me).

1. I'm going to look for a Mums help that can come part-time to do chores etc after the 3 weeks are up.

1. I'm going to take a stab at doing the nights myself. Tonight is the start...

Someone asked where I was in case they could help/recommend someone. I'm in South East London near Greenwich.

Thanks again. I feel like I've made steps forward today.

I work as a night nanny and tend to sleep when baby does but a very light sleep more of a doze, I do ask for a bed in room with bed so I can do this but as soon as baby stirs I am awake just in case I need to be doing anything.

Currently night nannying for a 10wk old doing 2 nights a week started 6wks ago and slowly we are getting her to go longer at night, parents dont want to follow a strict routine and are demand feeding and I go with whatever parents want.

I would never ever be asleep when due to finish, I tend to get up 15-20mins before baby is due first feed - if demand feeding or not yet in a routine of any kind you can roughly work this out from last feed time.

My current baby wakes at around 5.45-6am for her first feed and I get up around 5.45 usually awake by myself or she stirs and I get up, if she is not fully awake ie crying I go and make myself a cup of tea which takes couple mins and take back upstairs if baby still not fully awake i pop in bathroom and have quick wash get myself dressed etc etc

At 7am I finish, as long as baby has finished feed (wouldnt leave mid feed unless i had to rush off) I take to mum (or place in cot depending on job), current job i take baby downstairs to mum at about 6.50am who gets up with 4yr old at 6.30am, give a brief handover of how night was and then i wash bottles ready for sterilser.

Also 100mls is way way too much for a newborn baby especially if not used to formula I would be guestimating without knowing your little ones weight a feed of around 40-60mls max at the moment!

Sorry to waffle on but night nannies (good ones) have their place and some people think its an easy job that anyone can just do in that you just feed baby and then go to sleep - its certainly much more than that.

I'm glad that the advice given here has helped, newmummy, and I hope you find the right balance of help for you.

Perhaps you could try a little reverse psychology on the toddler - pick a time when the baby is asleep, and start doing something really interesting, but make no fuss at all about it - be absorbed and enjoying yourself but unworried about whether the toddler joins in, and they may well come and start playing.

I was thinking of something like painting - and when the toddler does join in and is enjoying themself, you can make some sort of casual comment about how nice it is to be able to do something with him that the baby is too much of a baby to do - make him feel a bit special.

Just remember that he's not rejecting you, he's trying to get to grips with a changed situation, and with a bunch of things that have happened that he really doesn't understand - and that will settle down. My instinct would be not to make too big a thing of it - be normal and try not to worry too much - I know that that's not easy when you are hormonal and getting over a cs.

And like I said before - look after yourself too.

newmummy - what did you say to the nanny and was she polite about it?

I told her that I didn't want her back and that I had envisiged a night nanny would be alert to the babies needs and not sleep heavily so she couldn't be roused with my shouting her name and putting on the TV. She said fine and goodbye. That was that.

My first night alone tonight... wish me luck!!

Good luck.

You will be fine.

Don't have any expectations.

You will do great! Are you opposed to the baby sleeping with you and feeding laying down? If not, this makes it soooo much easier ime, especially for you with pain getting up and down from cs.

That nn sounds horrid. She didn't even try to defend herself... weird.

Good for you in the midst of all this taking charge and getting everything sorted so quickly!

Well done & best wishes

Well done for getting rid of her. She was useless and doesn't sound as if she knows what she is doing

I pity her daytime family

where did you find her?

Good luck for tonight newmummy. I am sure you will do fine! Keep posting

i have been in a similar situation, with a 18 month old, a newborn and recovering from a CS.

You have done exactly the right thing in looking for day time help. is there no way that your Dh could take more time off work ? its such a wonderful opportunity for him to bond with his son and do some of the things mum cant do ( temporarily)?

i would suggest that baby sleeps in your bedroom and your Dh gets up at night to pass the baby to you - remember you shoudln't be lifting baby yet

my toddler coped ok with me sitting on the sofa, bf the baby on a pillow on my lap. i don't know if he even noticed him very much, as he was always wrapped in a blanket. he was got more upset that i coudlnt lift him, carry, bathe or change him

My godsend for occupying my toddler while breastfeeding was a nursery rhyme book that played the tunes so he would push the buttons and I would sing my little heart out!

Sounds like you definitely made the right decision by getting rid of her!!

I hope your first night went well, and that the maternity nurse and Mum's Help makes things a lot easier for you.

weddingseason - that sounds like a great tip - will search something like that out for when my time comes in August.

Ours is a big ladybird one - I think it's called the piano book but will check. I got it in a big mothercare.

how did last night go?

Hope last night went well for you, perhaps if you need a night nanny maybe just to do a couple of nights a week so you get some sleep and feel refreshed someone on here who is experienced and much more professional than the night nanny you had can help you out.

Also if you struggle to find a maternity nanny or a mothers help contact the agency www.kidsmatter.uk.com

you may find that you can get a lovely daily maternity nanny who will do a couple of nights as well as if you need it.

well done on getting rid of the night nanny you had that was very brave of you especially at a time when you must have been debating the whole I need the help but not this kind of help!!

you poor thing!

Where did you get the "night nanny" from? If you got her from an agency, make sure they are aware of how awful she was.

Most night nannies (myself included) are nothing like that. We "sleep" very lightly and are awake and dealing with the baby long before any one else in the house gets woken by the baby.

The baby I am currently working with gets wriggly in her bed and that wakes me up as I know she is coming into a light sleep and may need something.

I hope that you managed to find someone else to help you with your baby and little one.

Paula, same with baby I have she is such a fidget she wakes me an hr before she needs a feed as she starts to fidget around bless her, even a little splutter or sneeze and I am wide awake.

I am truely shocked that this person is a night nanny and someone obv gave her a good reference for you to employ her.

Newmummy there is a new thread for someone asking how to find a night nanny for twins in london suggested she send you a message so she isnt unfortunate enough to employ the same person - Also Paulamummyknowsbest thought you may be interested if you are not booked up for ever and ever as you seem so popular.

Thanks for so much support - am overwelmed at the kindness of people on mumsnet.

Update from me!

Someone suggested seeing if my husband could take more time off work. In my hormonal weepy state I'm not thinking clearly and hadn't thought of this! It was a great suggestion, and though tricky he has managed to get another week so we have all next week too now together! Phew.

I interviewed three ladies today, it was tough going juggling the newborn and that but well worth it. I found a lovely lady that can work full time for me for the three weeks after my hubbie goes back to work - i.e. the time I cant lift my toddler etc. She will come days, but can do an odd night too if that is something I need.

I've also got the name of a girl from a friend of a friend that could do a 'mums-help' role for me three times a week at a really reasonable rate (college student). She will mainly do domestics and tidying but has 6 brothers/sisters all younger than her so will be useful in interacting with my toddler etc. Seeing her Friday!!

I tried to get my toddler to sit next to me on the sofa when breastfeeding.. he wouldnt come near but I'm not giving up! It is hard though as whenever he rejects me I get all weepy as I feel rejected - but am trying to bolt in those tears as sure it isn't helping him.

Last night was a disaster.. I got 2.5 hours sleep - baby wants to feed every hour. So my 2.5 hours was 20 min snatches of sleep.

Hoping for better tonight (yawn).