Is my nanny acting inappropriately here - opinions please

[nannywobbles]

I am a mumsnet regular but I've name-changed for this because I don't want to be identified.

I have recently recruited a new nanny to look after my children, the youngest of whom is 12 months old. We are currently in a 2 week handover period and I am going back to work next week, when she will take sole charge.

Yesterday, I took the older children out for a few hours and left the nanny to take care of the baby. When I returned home, I found her sitting on the sofa watching daytime television (not cbeebies, I mean some kind of game show) with the baby on her lap. She had some toys with her, and I think she was trying to keep the baby entertained whilst watching the television.

Now, my initial reaction was that this is totally inappropriate, but I would really welcome the mumsnet jury's view! Obviously I'm in a state of complete stress anyway what with going back to work and I don't want to overreact here.

I guess the following info might also help:

1. She is a professional nanny with about 5 years experience, and we employ her professionally, i.e. we have a contract, we operate PAYE etc.

1. I said that I wasn't comfortable with her watching TV and she said OK that's fine. Her previous employers were fine with it apparently. I didn't ask her how long the telly had been on for or for how long she would normally watch telly in an average day (I should have done, I know).

1. I never watch daytime telly myself so I suppose I might be in danger of being a bit snobby about it - I mean if she'd been listening to radio 4 then maybe I would feel differently?

1. I do have some reservations about how energetic she will be with the kids, but she's kind and responsive and obviously loves children.

So.... was this completely out of order? Or just a minor issue where different families take different approaches? Please help me put it into proportion!

It actually doesn't matter what any of us internet sprites think - it's about you and your family and what you want to happen when she is in charge of your baby.

And therefore the absolutely critical thing is to make your 'rules' very explicit, so that the nanny know what is and isn't allowed/acceptable.

We used to share a nanny, who was lovely, but she was always in trouble with the other family for doing things wrong. However, they were things that they had never told her not to do, so she was always getting into trouble retrospectively. She got told off for a day trip to the zoo, because it had involved driving on the motorway. She got told off for walking into town, because it meant the pushchair was at the level of car exhaust pipes. She got told off for serving fish fingers because they didn't like processed food. And so on.

She would have done none of these things - not matter how unreasonable she thought the other family - if she had been told beforehand.

So make it clear to your nanny what you do and don't want her to do.

And good luck re going back to work. It will be fine once you get there - it's the anticipation that's the worst thing!

no need to appologize Laquitar

we all read things differently

again i got told off for giving ex dc chicken nuggets BUT they were in the freezer at home and MB brought them!!!!

worthit - your poor ex nanny with other family - you would have thought other mb happy that nanny was walking+getting fresh air for her children etc

Thanks Blondes
Here's a cup of tea for your waiting.
Now you are making me curious too!

OK I'm back.

Deep breath.

So, yes, I do have a few reservations, although nothing major. She has spent quite a lot of time sitting down watching the kids, rather than playing with them. My 4 year old girl loves to run around a lot, do dancing, go outside etc, but I've noticed that, when left to her own devices with her, our new nanny encourages her to sit and do colouring. We've had a few children over to play and sometimes I've gone off to deal with the baby leaving her with charge of the older ones (eg putting the baby down for a nap) and come back to find the nanny reading her book or on the phone and not seemingly aware of what the older ones and friends are up to (yesterday, they interrupted me as I was putting the baby down because they wanted something - nanny was on the phone). She has perhaps not leapt up to help me out with the cooking/tidying etc as much as she might have done.

Now, before you all leap to tell me that I'm being petty, I should say that I am fully aware that handover periods are very difficult, that the nanny inevitably feels like a bit of a spare part and is to some extent 'hanging around' waiting for the real job to start. I have exacerbated this perhaps by treating her as a guest (always making the coffees etc). I'm not a crazy helicopter parent and do think that kids can generally be left to get on with stuff by themselves when they have friends over. But yes I'm beginning to get a sense that she might not be hugely energetic or conscientious.

The Tv incident seemed to stand out to me as an alarm bell and that's why I posted about it - I didn't want to clutter up the post with the other low-level stuff which is really just impressionistic and would look like I was trying to persuade you all that she was not very attentive etc.

It is a 2 week handover, but she's only doing 3 days a week, she was off sick for 1 day (I know, I know, but it was genuine illness and fair enough) and the TV incident happened on day 4 of her employment.

I suppose I felt that by posting about the TV incident and getting your views, without letting on about the general impression that's forming in my mind, I could get some clarity.

I should also say that our previous nanny (who stayed for years till I went on mat leave) was very sporty and was the sort to be running round the house being a monster, and I know that different nannies do have different approaches and perhaps I am unreasonably comparing them.

I think perhaps that she is simply very different from our previous nanny, and that I may have overreacted to the TV thing a bit - her previous employers were fine with it, and some of you are saying that you would be fine with it too.

I think you are all quite right about making my 'rules' very explicit. I thought that we didn't really have very many rules as a family apart from all being nice to each other but perhaps I should have been more upfront about my expectations. I think I will have another chat to her this afternoon.

BTW, we put 'energetic' as the second most important characteristic we were looking for in a nanny in our ad (after 'caring and cuddly') and we did try to test this at interview but were probably rather lame with our questioning on it.

I've just re-read my last post and do worry that I come across as having high expectations.

But watching tv during a handover period whilst you are supposed to be looking after a 1 year old? It still doesn't seem right!

Surely you have an obvious opportunity for a feedback-type chat at the end of the two week period. Seems like a natural time to me, she'll probably be expecting it.

Maybe you need to mention tv and also that (eg) you'd like them outside for at least an hour a day. Something like that might help to up the general activty levels.

does seem a bit weird that nanny doesnt want to run around/take kids in garden but nothing wrong with colouring either

my 7yr and i can spend hours (literally) colouring in

does seem weird was sitting reading her book when kids were playing, i sit and read mine when older 2 at school and bubba in bed

ill already? what was wrong with her?

but as i said it is hard to try and play games/do stuff with kids when parents are about and sure your children came to ask you rather than nanny (even tho she was on the phone) as they are used to you

obv if alarm bells are really ringing then dont employ her, do you have a 3mth probabtion in contract and after then you can both reassess the situation?

Fine to state what you would like in this period, you are not being petty to say no tv in the day.

Are you worried she might say ok then watch it anyway while you are at work?

Nannywobbles - I think there are a few things at play here...

1. Anxiety at returning to work (although as you've had a nanny before I'm assuming this isn't a new thing for you), but 'she' is still new, so you will be leaving your kids with someone you don't really know - a little anxiety is natural

1. She isn't your old nanny

1. Handovers - nanny nightmares, feeling like a spare part at a wedding. It is difficult with parents around and she might feel really stupid playing monsters and singing songs when you are there...

1. She might be lazy and just be looking for a job that's 'an easy ride' - I find it very strange that she is comfortable (??) enough to be reading a book when you and all the children are around. Surely there would have been something more productive she could be doing, even if it was 'only for show' while you are there - the fact that she's not even making an effort while you are there is a bit to me.... along with not really mucking in with cooking/cleaning.

1. She might not be the right fit for your family. It happens. I'm sure that you've done a 'good enough' job in selecting her so that she will be OK looking after them, but it may turn out that you need to start looking again to find one who is a 'better fit'. It's all very well saying to have 'Rules', but she isn't a child. You need someone who will 'parent' them the way you want them to be 'parented' while you are around, not just someone who will 'do as they're told' (well, at least that's what I would want).

If it's any consolation, I don't think you do have 'high expectations' - I think you are being perfectly reasonable.

I don't think you have high expectations, you are employing her full-time and leaving your three children in her care. However I think you need to be explicit in what you expect the children to do on a daily basis, do a jo-frost esque list. I think the TV incident is neither here nor there, really. I often have sky news on or something in the background, and sometimes have baby on my lap. But if she was watching TV to the exclusion of your child's needs, or if your 1yo was not happy, that is different.
It could be that she is not in full swing yet because you've been around a lot.
OR it could be that she's a bit lazy, actually, or tired for whatever reason. The things you describe are how I would act if I was absolutely exhausted. For the moment I would give her the benefit of the doubt and see how it goes.. do you have a 1 month/ 3 month probation period in your contract with her?

'reading her book', do you mean her own book? (initially i thought reading to the children) Wow!!!

The rest of the stuff in your post tbh sound normal to me.

sorry - didn't mean to come across harsh

But does she have any break? Or the tv and book is her way of trying to have a break?

I don't think your expectations are too high at all.
I think you are being perfectly reasonable in not expecting her to watch tv or read her book. That is really odd.

The thing is if she is the sort of nanny who kind of seems bored and unenergetic then she'll never change it's just how she is and it doesn't matter how much you talk about your expectations. Sorry but I think you need to reconsider her and look for someone else she doesn't seem like a good fit for your family. That doesn't make her a terrible nanny just not a good fit for you. I used to look after 3 children and in the holidays you really don't get a break as such if there are no naps. Now I'm not saying she shouldn't sit down and have a cup of tea of course she can but there's no need for her to need to switch off by watching tv or reading. Alarm bells are ringing!

With any domestic staff you must always start as you mean to go on and explain all your "rules" and preferences right at the outset, and nip anything untoward in the bud at the very beginning. You must always make things absolutely crystal clear to domestic staff; they can't be expected to know things. That way there is no room for resentment on either side and nanny can't say she doesn't know what your wishes are.

Your nanny is very new, so here is what I would do: sit down with her (sans enfants), coffee/tea and biscuits and have a "how do you find the job so far" chat.

When you have listened carefully to what she says, then you have the opportunity to say your piece. You don't need to enquire how long the television had been on (that is immaterial). You do, however, need to establish that in YOUR home, you expect all her time to be devoted solely to looking after your children. Any entertainments should be child-centred in your home - regardless of what previous employers allowed. If children have a nap during the day, then you may require nanny to catch up with other tasks such as laundry, mending or tidying, meal preparation etc (for the children, of course).

It will be difficult to police the "no television" policy when you are back at work.

snort

snort

I wouldn't be happy about her being on the phone personally. Who was she calling? Fair enough if she's arranging playdates but in my view, personal calls should be limited. I know sometimes you have to ring the bank/doctors etc but I think if I was doing a handover, I would have asked your permission first. I don't think I've ever sat around reading a book whilst I have children up in my care. Fine if baby is napping and all nursery duties are done. She sounds lazy. A handover is the time that you go all out to make an impression. It is hard when the Mum is around and easier to be proactive when you've got sole charge but you sound like a relaxed employer.

I agree with nannyj.

I fear that the problem is with the nanny's personality or energy levels - which is not something you can change.

As opposed to giving her the benefit of the doubt (as you would with every new nanny), I would be monitoring her quite closely to see if I need to manage her out quickly. I find that when someone is of the wrong fit, it is quite a rapid descent from the first 'incident', to 'monitoring' to 'micromanaging' to 'managing fallout' ...

If so, it is kinder for both you and her and the children that she leaves sooner rather than later.

Definitely, make it clear to her she is on a fixed probation period. Follow up on reviews and be quite matter-of-fact as to how you would like things to be, on-the-spot as opposed to biting your tongue. Check with your older children what she is like when you are not in the house ...

If you are feeling uncomfortable in your gut or constantly trying to secondguess her thinking and making excuses for her behaviour, that is a warning sign.

I do think that the TV/book reading/phone stuff is a bit odd! Sounds like the kind of thing a nanny who has been in her job a long time and got comfy might do, rather than a new nanny during the handover period with the boss still at home.

Alrm bells would be ringing for me if I'd employed a new nanny who was off sick during the first week and was then caught sitting watching the TV, rather that playing with a 1 year old - personally I would think that she wasn't really committed to her job.

Go with your gut instinct - if you're not happy with her tell her and give her the opportunity to improve or get rid.

Also - if she's like this when you're around - imagine what she's going to be like when you're nt there. I agree with others who have said that she sounds lazy

I do think she's acting strangely for a handover/probationary period.

I rarely, if ever, have the TV on when working. If I do then I make sure it's appropriate for the children (no Jeremy Kyle!). Reading her book/making phone calls when she's supposed to be on duty isn't on, especially if you're at home. It's okay if you're home alone and a child is napping but not when she's supposed to be supervising children. At this point she should be making extra effort to do things! Personally, in my last job I was always doing something if my MB was home, even when my charge was happily amusing himself. I didn't want to look like I was slacking, even after I'd been there ages and she knew I wasn't a slacker, but especially not in the first few weeks. In my current job MB doesn't work so she's often around and I wouldn't dream of putting the TV on - even if I only had the youngest 2 AND they were both napping.

She sounds rather sedentary which is difficult if your previous nanny was very active. Presumably your children are used to having an active nanny and might wonder why the emphasis on colouring in?!

I would have a chat with her, emphasise that you want her to be proactive, energetic and do lots of imaginative/physical/creative things with the children. You said you have concerns about how energetic she'll be, it sounds like that's a priority for you. If she's not that kind of person and that's really important for you and something you want your children to have then let her go. It's also a time to reiterate all the rules and make it clear you're not her old family.

you obv love your old nanny tons, why did she leave?