what if you get more hol than your nanny?

[camflower]

been talking to a lovely nanny about doing three days a week when i go back part time and she says she normally has four weeks' paid leave a year. the thing is, dh and i (both work at same place) get six weeks' hol a year plus eight lieu days, so what happens on the extra weeks when we are off - do we just agree that she doesn't work and doesn't get paid??? put like that it sounds unreasonable but on the other hand why would you expect your hol quota to nearly double?

and what would happen at a nursery? do you have to pay every week it's open even if you are on holiday? this is a whole new world and i'm stumbling along trying to find out how it works!

A nanny gets 5.6 weeks holiday including bank holidays as a minimum - pro-rata for three days that's 17 days.

It's up to you if you want to give her more paid holiday than that, or you can have her work while you're on holiday. I think it's unreasonable to require her to take unpaid holiday though, and can't imagine many nannies would agree to that.

At a nursery you would pay every week it's open.

It's a nice problem to have. When we had a nanny we both had the same amount of holiday (I had 5 weeks, she had 4 weeks plus a week at Christmas). If you have a bit more than her you will have some flexibility if she is sick ie you could take some extra holiday. Also might be nice to spend the odd day doing your own thing.

i would think the nanny would end up with a few extra paid days off (though they can be surprise, short notice ones) and for a few days you might spend some quality time with dh or go shopping/ t the gym. i use one or two half days a year visiting people with new babies without my dd's - to make them meals or just chat or whatever they choose! that is the sort of visit it hs hard to do with other little ones around. so enjoy it but dont expect her to take unpaid leave....

Some nurseries expect you to pay full fees even when on holiday, some do 1/2 fees. Either you pay your nanny holiday when you're off or you give her the 5.6 weeks and expect her to turn up for the other days even when you're off. It would be hugely unfair to tell her she has to take 2 weeks or more unpaid every year because you're too tight to pay her. You get paid for holidays - so does she.

you cant not pay her, but you could have her work doing other things for you (cook for your DD or her washing etc, sort toys)while you are on holiday
you might use the odd day to do things with friends/your DH as well while DD is with the nanny, so factor that in!

I work as a nanny for an mb who gets 2 weeks at xmas, easter, 4 weeks in the summer plus other additional dates!!

I get the usual 5.6 weeks holiday as I work a full time 50 hour week over 5 days, of which I choose 2 weeks and she chooses the other 2 weeks.

With any other dates mb may have off I have the option to work them and have mb about; these tend to be half days or easy days or have the time off - fully paid as I am available to work, but she is away and therefore I can't work.

You could have the nanny work - for example so that you can do things you want to do on your own or with DH. If you have more than one child, then you could take one child out for the day, whilst the nanny cares for the other(s).

Holiday entitlement is 5.6 weeks, not 4 weeks. It can include Bank Holidays.

You may find a nanny who will agree to periods of time unpaid. However most I expect will want to be paid. You are choosing not to need them and you may be deciding when that time not working occurs.

She should get 5 weeks. So the difference is only 1 week. I would pay it because one week unpaid hol means she will not be able to pay her rent/morgage.

On lieu days you can still have the nanny and catch up with appoitments (dentist, hardresser...).

Yes you still pay when you dont use the Nursery.

meant to read 2 weeks at easter

It's probably a good idea to keep back a week of your holiday every year to cover nanny sickness, appointments you would rather take your child to, or days when your child is really sick and wants their mum rather than nanny etc.

mainly it means you get days off wth childcare. if you are paying her full time equivalent it should all be factored in and she should be paid the same monthly all year round.

when ds was 1-2y i paid cm for 50 weeks in that year, although she only worked 46 so it was f/t pay as for a nanny. we did a deal on the fortnight.

after that baby time, as she took more children, i paid for full time place when taken up but not when she was away.

thanks for your replies everyone. sorry to be so clueless where does this 5.6 weeks hol rule come from? it was prospective nanny who told me she normally has four weeks

Everyone is entitled to 5.6 weeks - it's the legal minimum.

Holiday entitlement here

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Timeoffandholidays/DG_10034642

5.6 weeks is of course 4 weeks plus the 8 bank holidays: it is stated as 5.6 weeks so part-time workers don't lose out on bank holiday days in lieu.

every 5 day worker is entitled to 28 days - 4weeks and 8 banks hols and obv less if 3 days, ie pro rota

i work 3 days and should get 17days, but i get way over that - i have 5weeks paid plus bh that i work in my contract but often have 10+weeks off

my work family get a lot of holiday and often go away to their holiday home, i get paid and have time off

mb does take a few days here and there off work but then goes shopping/sees a friend/take older one horse riding etc and i say with younger 2 and work less hours

my friend works for someone who when they go away either make her work in their house cleaning playroom/sorting clothes etc or she goes to look after the cousins (ie mb sister kids)

In contract I would just give her the standard amount of wks hol and then you can decide what to do with your other wks as and when.But I would pay her regardless of whether she works them or not.You could decide to have a few days child free time or you could let her have the days off.It'd be a great perk of the job.
Plus as someone else said your extra days might come in handy for any sick days the nanny has.

I can't see anyone having posted this link already, so I will:
BusinessLink: Holiday Entitlement Calculator

3-days per week, calculates to 16.8 days. It can'd be rounded down, so most employers I would expect would round this up to 17 days. Holiday entitlement could also be calculated in hours, if so desired.

camflower - your prospective nanny may have previously been a full-time nanny, thus 4-weeks plus bank holidays would be the norm. Though there is no right to having bank holidays off... some nannies may work for employers who need them to work on bank holidays.
Over the past couple of years, statutory holiday entitlement has changed... so your nanny may also be referring to the past and may not be aware than the 5.6 weeks thing now applies.

If your nanny will be working on a Monday, do discuss with them what the arrangements for bank holidays will be. You can deduct them from the holiday entitlement... or you could give them as extra's on top. You may need your nanny to work them. Note: there are other days (such as today - Good Friday) which are bank holidays which don't fall on a Monday. More Bank Holiday Info - there are variations if in Scotland or Northern Ireland.

When considering how much holiday to offer your nanny, do consider how things may change over the next few years. Your child/children get older and will have varying needs - there may be times when you will want to have a day off to see your child in a school play, take one child out on a special treat, that sort of thing. So you having more holidays than your nanny is a good thing... gives you some days to do what you want, while knowing you have childcare available.

nannynick, yes she was full-time. her employer worked in the legal profession and took a month off in august so she would take her holiday then. fwiw, she says she has never had contracts, all her jobs have been word of mouth and verbal agreements.

we have one ds (now 7m) and i hadn't planned to go back to work until he was about 11 months. i've been looking at nurseries for two days a week, say mon.tue, with dh looking after him on a wed. but because this nanny comes so highly recommended from a near neighbour we are now thinking i'll go several months earlier than planned and we'll agree to an extra day that we could do without because that is what she is looking for. she needs two weeks off in august to go to a wedding so i will have to take the holiday then rather than being paid for it before i go back to work, and we then have four more weeks.

if we pay her holiday for all of those that would be six weeks in six months - again, going back to my original question would it still be unreasonalbe to say we'll pay 4 weeks hol in six months but not the two weeks in august (remember these are weeks i would never have wanted and are costing me money).

or as someone said earlier, it's our choice not to need her so if she ends up with six weeks off in six months that's our lookout? i'm keen to do the right thing but is that just a bit mad?

How can anyone survive with 2 wks unpaid leave? Doesnt she have rent/morgage to pay?

How come she always worked with no contract? Are you going to have one? Have you look into tax and NI?

As long as you are paying her for the statutory holiday entitlement (so 5.6 weeks per year, pro rata, so 17 days as she would be doing 3 days per week), then YES I can't see a problem with you telling her that any additional time off would be unpaid.

Take the envisaged start date, then work out all the dates during that year when you will be requiring your nanny to take time off, such as periods over Xmas. Then with what remains your nanny can decide when she want's that time off - and you can agree to giving that time off.

we'll agree to an extra day that we could do without because that is what she is looking for.

Hmm.. not sure that is sounding very good. A nanny to care for one child is very expensive - 1:1 care will always be costly. As you are already considering a nursery, then the hours you require childcare must fit with nursery days - thus would also fit with a Childminder.

Why do you want a nanny? Is mixing nursery, your DH and a nanny going to be confusing for your DS? Would you be losing one of these care types if you take on this nanny - if so, I feel you should keep DH having a day with his son.

I'm not quite getting where the 6 weeks in 6 months is coming from. Is it that you have 4 weeks already booked yourself prior to August? If so, could nanny not be working some of that time... even if that is more housework related tasks, than childcare, or is shorter days.

In the past I have had a nanny job where I was unpaid for 9 weeks a year. It is fine if it's all agreed to at the start. During those weeks I often temped in nurseries. Though it is fair to say that it is one of the reasons why I left the job and took another job which didn't have portions of unpaid time.

The not working without a written contract isn't legal and hasn't been for some time. The Employment Rights Act 1996 requires that employers produce a written statement within 2 calendar months of an employee starting a job.
More info - ACAS: Employment Contracts

I also feel it's unprofessional of the nanny not to have signed a written contract with her former employers. While this person may be great with children, her attitude towards work is a potential worry - it seems a bit too laid back. Now that may not be the case in reality... though do ask former employers with regard to the persons time keeping, sickness record, general attitude towards doing what the employer requires.

Will you be interviewing some other nannies? Maybe useful to have a comparison between this candidate and one or two others.