what if you get more hol than your nanny?

[camflower]

been talking to a lovely nanny about doing three days a week when i go back part time and she says she normally has four weeks' paid leave a year. the thing is, dh and i (both work at same place) get six weeks' hol a year plus eight lieu days, so what happens on the extra weeks when we are off - do we just agree that she doesn't work and doesn't get paid??? put like that it sounds unreasonable but on the other hand why would you expect your hol quota to nearly double?

and what would happen at a nursery? do you have to pay every week it's open even if you are on holiday? this is a whole new world and i'm stumbling along trying to find out how it works!

I dont think she would agree on unpaid holidays(unless she is desperate to find a job). As she is available to work. Maybe you can ask her to cook food for the freezer and/or arrange the kid/s dravers, clean the baby's room etc.

I have more holiday than my nanny, but it is handy having those extra days, I've needed to take one when the nanny was ill. It was handy to have days when i needed to do things (docs appts, all the food shopping for Xmas, going for a massage). Our nanny also wants days off in "payment" for overtime, so I need the leave for that. and given some of the overtime she has done for us, I've given her extra days off as well as a thank you.

I know the nurseries we looked at you had to pay 52 weeks a year. And having a nanny has been amazing as I've not needed to take leave when DD has had a tummy bug or bad cold.

I think it would spoil the relationship (which is critical) if I insisted on unpaid leave

thanks for your thoughts everyone it's v helpful.
laquitar - i assume she has rent/mortgage to pay. she's been working full time up until now and wants to ease off (she's in her fifties) and do 3 days. don't really know why she has never had a contract but she said we can have one if i like - she does her own tax/ni.

she has great references and has only taken 2 days off sick int he past 6 years - her last employers can't speak highly enough of her. i think she's just not into paperwork

Ahhh - another old schoolnanny that thinks she can be self employed. Be very careful with this as a nanny with a regular job, on set days is an employee and you as the employer will be the one facing the £3000 fine and back payment of tax, ni and employers ni.

she does her own tax/ni.

Don't go there!

Walk away now.

Do do not pass go, do not collect £200.

Highly unlikely that she would be considered to be self-employed. A nanny will very rarely meet the criteria for that. You need to operate PAYE.

Do not continue any discussion with her until you have made it very clear that you will be operating PAYE, that she is your employee.

I take it she is fit and able... as caring for an active toddler is hard work. While your ds is a baby now, he will some become a toddler. Consider what happens over say the next 3 years.

Good advice here.

Make sure you read the bit about contacting the relevant authority yourself to confirm the nanny's employment status for your particular job.

some become a toddler
opps... meant of course: soon become a toddler

Lol i knew this thread is strange...

OP, you said in the begining 'i want to do the right thing'. Erm...then do the right thing and pay tax and NI.

Nannynick , 50 is not that old!

I know that

As we get older though, it is something that needs to be thought about. As I've got older, I've become less active... thus now I am making an effort to go to the gym, so I am strong enough to lift the toddler I care for.

'as i've got older..' I like it when you young people say this..

Is 'I have' better
Are you calling me young?... if so, good to hear 35 is considered to be young. Only a few years and I'll be 40... will I be young then

Well yes, thats becase i 'll be 50 in few years

OP what are you going to do?

At least I'm not using d txt spk

OP - have you considered other childcare options? Having a nanny to care for just one child is very costly.

So she has been a nanny for years yet never had a contract and says she pays her own tax&ni

stay WELL clear of her!!!!!!!!

Ahhh, again SE issue. OP, nannies can! be SE. I know many nannies who are SE for years and had no problem with HMRC. Your potential nanny has been working as SE for years so it must be prove what I said above.

Blondes, to have a contract is good but that doesnt mean she is not a professional nanny. It is also mean that both parties trust each other but again it is always good to have one.

oh lawks this has all taken a turn for the worse - a black market nanny! argh ds has woken from his microsleep and is now shouting so have to go ...

Bluegreen, why a professional nanny and a decent employer wouldn't have a contract?

ok back again. from what i can gather she has gone from one family to the next (only about 4 or 5 in 20 years) on personal recommendation and i have now established that she is actually used to being paid cash and people think she is so great they are happy to do this. it's illegal but then surely there is a lot of this sort of thing going on out there?(not that it makes it right of course).

nannynick - was/still am considering the nursery option two days a week and have seen two so far, one quite grim and one quite nice but nearly £90 a day. huge waiting lists for lots round here and i need to do at least one evening a week (there are lots of complications). also dh (and me) not keen on the idea of him being stuck in a baby room when he can't walk and can't talk

Agree a nursery is not ideal for a baby. Childminder would be better.
If nurseries in your area are £90 a day, how much is the nanny wanting to be paid?

Sounds like this nanny really isn't someone you can consider. Nannies these days are far more wise about employment rights and things like having their NI stamp paid so it counts towards benefits latter (if she's being paid cash, is she declaring any income to HMRC?).
If you are to consider this nanny, please do the right thing and have a written contract and operate PAYE... least then you know you are doing things right.

first nursery was £45 a day; i think £86 was top whack and others charge anything in between. prospective nanny charges £10 an hour. like i said, i have no idea about whether or not she pays tax although she did say she did her own tax and ni...

could i ask one more thing nannynick as you seem so well informed, what's the best place to look for info about drawing up contracts and sorting out paye? thanks for your help

Camflower - take a look at the nannytax website (is a payroll agent that will sort out paye for you - has some basic legal info about employing a nanny too). There are various payroll agents out there - have used nannytax for my nanny's tax for past 3 years with no real issues.

I'd agree with all the others - you really need to be careful about using a nanny (even a brilliant one) who wont go down the normal PAYE /employer route.

Oh and FWIW I get a week and a half more holiday than our nanny - we give her extra days off (paid) when we use our extra holiday though she often repays this in kind by throwing in a free babysitting session or two to say thanks for the extra paid holiday. It is good to have more holiday than the nanny to be able to take emergency days off when your nanny is ill.

Contract help - just search on here. There has been lots about it in the past. Plus you can start a new message thread with any specific questions.

Here are some message threads that may be of interest:
Advice needed about nanny contracts
Contract of employment for nanny
Dealing with sick leave
Maternity Leave
My Contract: End Date? Notice period?
Sick Nanny

Some of the above are to do with issues that can arise, which is what the contract is there to help deal with.

A basic contract can be found at: NannyJob: Employment Contract
Use that as a starting point and make modifications to it to suit the specific role.

HMRC: PAYE Intro - This is your starting point on how to register as an employer and how to operate PAYE.

As Dinkystinky says, you can use a payroll agency to do a lot of the payroll stuff for you.

There are many around... currently www.PAYEforNannies.co.uk is the one I direct people to, as they seem to cope well with doing mine ... plus are not as expensive as NannyTax.