2 DC - nanny or nursery?

[butadream]

DS went to nursery and we were happy with it but the pick-up time was always stressful. Mainly for this reason now we have 2 DC we're considering a nanny instead. Other reasons for a nanny are:

• a nice nanny always seems like a nicer arrangement for younger babies anyway
• no problems if DC ill
• the other nursery duties a nanny does are v attractive i.e. clean clothes and good food for DC

BUT:

• would a live-out nanny work 8.30 am - 7 pm (hopefully we would be home earlier most nights but trains are not trustworthy enough to promise it)?
• lots of posts on here about unreliable nannies worrying me esp if agencies aren't that helpful
• nursery still cheaper actually esp with increases to employer NIC on the way

It's not quite clear what you mean by "the pick-up time was always stressful" about the nursery. Have you identified what made it stressful? how far away was it from your work/home? Was it hard for you to get there in time without risking fines or what was it? Maybe you need to get to the bottom of this before you decide.

Other questions: are you considering full-time for both? If 5 days/week it would be a pretty long week for a nanny unless s/he lived very close by. You say there would be no problems with a nanny if dcs were ill. But you need to bear in mind that nannies need holidays and also get sick: what would your emergency fallback option be? WIth a nursery, you know it will always be open, which is reassuring if you and your dp are in high-pressure jobs.

And do you have nursery options or is your ds still at a nursery and your baby would go to the same one. Your OP implies that your older child might already be at school if nursery is a thing of the past. So presumably a nanny would be expected to do school drop-off/pick-up.

I'd say that you need to work out what it is you want from your childcare, what are the priorities? If it's that you and your dp can keep working longish hours and then go straight home, then it sounds as though you're heading for a nanny. But if you want more stimulation for your older child and less risk that you have to come up with alternative arrangements when the nanny is suddenly indisposed, you might want to reconsider the nursery.

It's a difficult judgement to make but determining your highest-priority reasons might help you work it out.

I used to work 7.45 to 6.45 5 days a week. That was a live out job but one live in job I did 7.30-7.30.

Re the 'lots of posts on here about unreliable nannies' Please remember that people usually come here for advice when there is a problem and things aren't going right. There are lots of nannies out there that are professional, work hard and are hassle free for their employer - they just wouldn't make interesting reading on here That said, it is worth reading all the posts because it can highlight problems that people encounter and gives you a chance to look out for potential problems and really firm up what you want and need from a nanny.

8.30am - 7pm is typical nanny hours so shouldn't be a problem (though if you can arrange a slightly earlier finish on a Friday nannies will love you ). As has been pointed out you do need to have alternatives for nanny holidays and if a nanny is ill - though generally nannies will work unless they are really ill, it is the kind of job where you can take things a bit easier if you are full of cold.

On the plus side, you get all the childrens washing, ironing and bed changing done. You don't have to get children up and out of the house early in the morning and you should come home to freshly bathed and sweet smelling children to have a bit of quality time with before they go to bed.

Sorry to post and disappear - fell asleep, basically!

The nursery pick-up was stressful even when the trains were running OK because I would have my work bag and work computer and the nursery book and the buggy and baby to juggle and I quite often have a bad back. DS would always want to be in my arms asap so the walk home in the buggy would be him crying and then we'd do cuddles, bathtime and bed as soon as we got in the door and I would be bursting for the loo, etc. - it was all a bit frazzled and I don't fancy doing it with DD as the baby plus DS being tired toddler complaining and hungry on the walk home!

DS is at school nursery 5 sessions a week where he is v stimulated so would like a nanny who could help him relax, we're thinking trips to the park, playing in the garden, crafty things at home.

DD is a baby so would like a nanny who would love her and take her out in the pram, not that bothered about baby music classes and so on but would be happy for nanny to take DD out for that sort of thing if she wanted to.

Their gran would take each DC separately one morning a week most weeks. She would also most likely be emergency cover or I could work from home if I really had to. For holidays, DH is likely to be the main cover.

We live in an area of London where apparently quite a lot of nannies live so would hopefully be able to employ someone with a short commute but all the local jobs I've seen advertised are 7.30 to 6 or 8.30 to 6.30. I'm hoping to be home by 6.30 but don't want a nanny to feel cross at a constantly late MB or to feel like she doesn't have time to say what she wants in the way of handover except in her own time.

When I saw the thread title my main thought was - nanny, to avoid the horrors of the nursery pick-up, but then I opened the thread and found you have that as your main reason anyway
We swapped to a nanny after a year or so with 2 in nursery, the pick ups got even more stressful with 2 - double buggy, double crying, 2 to settle whilst trying to cook with the other hand. It really is the best reason for using a nanny.
We've had 2 nannys and a host of au pairs but as nbee said, I'm sure I've posted on MN a lot about the 'not-so-good' nanny and the 'not-so-good' AP but haven't spent time to write posts on how fab the good ones were/are!
If you want to keep the cost comparable to nursery you could look for a nanny with her own child or a part-time nanny-share (especially since your ds is in nursery part-time).

Thanks jkkipu, Fab, nbee and EColi.

I hadn't thought of a part-time nanny-share, I suppose I could look for someone whose DC were at same school?

Wouldn't mind a nanny with her own child, only thing is I would imagine the working hours might be a bit long to be attractive to a nanny in those circs?

BTW would pay market rate and not expect a nanny to work another 2.5 hrs a week for same price as other shorter local nanny jobs.

10.5hrs is quite normal for live out

most nannies i know prefer to start earlier and finish earlier, so anyway you could do 8-6.30?

its good to have a back up time/ie say 7pm but get in 6.40 rather than say 6.30 finish and get in 6.40 every night

that will piss off the nanny

as nbee said this board is mainly asking for help,so there wont be good threads about fab nannies (may have to bribe my mb to come and post on here about me)

when there are 2+children it is easier to have a nanny, the nanny will come to your house (obv) and get children dressed/breakie etc and all you have to do is get yourself suited+booted for work

Thanks Blondes - you and the other nannies (Nick, Fab in her previous career etc.) posting here do seem brilliant, it's true!

Can't offer reliable 6.30 finish unfortunately, 6.40 would be fairly reliable but at least three times a month the trains will be dodgy and I will struggle to get home any earlier than 6.50 so would rather offer 7pm finish than constantly annoy nanny by being late, esp. as if nanny were late for us in the morning that would be a serious serious issue for us.

and DH works all over the place so it has to be my commute that we work to

With regard to finish time, having the contracted finish time to be 7pm isn't an issue for most people I suspect. If you / DH arrive home earlier than you can always let your nanny leave early that day. You nanny will love you for that and with luck will be more flexible if you call from the train saying that you haven't moved for 1/2 an hour and have no idea when you will be home!

Your 8.30 start time is fine... I start work at 7.30 two days a week, typically arriving at work around 7.15-7.20.

Thanks Nick, I hadn't seen any jobs advertised with a 7pm finish so it's good to know I'm not asking for the moon.

No you're not being unreasonable asking for 7pm finish at all. I worked 7.30-6.30 (11hrs) in one job, so quite normal. Like Nick, I would arrive about 7.20, and expected to be there until 6.30 - if parent arrives earlier it's a bonus, better to say 7pm than 6.30 and be late every day. Hope you find a lovely nanny!

I have friends who work 8am-7pm in London, 8-6 might be the "standard" day but tbh an hour either side isn't unusual.

so butadream - have we presuaded you to employ a nanny?

I think so - I've now seen several FT live-out nanny jobs in my area advertised for £500 pw for 7.45 am to 7pm and even 7.30 to 7, they just seem to have appeared!

So I think we will advertise FT 8.30 to 7 at:

£33,800 GROSS p.a. (net equivalent £485/wk)

or £21,970 GROSS (£328 net) if nanny would like to bring their own child to work - that's 65% of the other wage.

Must have sole charge experience of children aged from 8m to say 6 yo.

Driver not required - there is plenty round here (park, children's centre, cinema, baby groups, DS' school) for a non-driver to do that is easy to walk to with a buggy and a toddler and even more if they want to take a bus up the road.

Does that sound fair?

We're also considering nursery one day a week and nanny 4 days a week so that if emergency cover is an issue we could ring up the nursery and ask if we could buy an extra day or so - when DS did 3 days a week at the nursery it was easy to increase hours like this but I'm not sure that they are too keen on having kids for only one day a week, unless maybe we can help fill them up on Fridays - no harm in asking I suppose.

PS their gran still wants each of them one morning per week as before but she is not reliable enough for us to reduce other arrangements officially - so nice reduction in duties for the nanny 2 mornings most weeks!

Can you work from home on any days? What we used to do is two days in nursery and three days with a nanny. That's how we could make it work financially. So, one crazy day with a nursery pick up, another less crazy one when I was at home.

But that was with one DC. With two, the benefits could be less clear.

Could you have a live in nanny or an au pair to help you each end of the day?

Thanks but the answer to both of those questions is no.

We can cope financially although it will be tough - it's only for a few years so am willing to remortgage if necessary.

To explain - it's only for a few years because when they are both at school we'll either end up going for an au pair plus holiday club, although we'll have to make changes to our house to accommodate an au pair, or I will get a job with better hours and will therefore be able to do the pick-up from after-school / holiday club. I'm trying to develop my career towards the latter but it will take a few years to bear fruit.

Have thought about nursery + au pair now but taking into account the building work, nursery fees and au pair costs it's about the same as a nanny and I am not v comfortable with the idea of an au pair having sole charge of such little children, which would probably happen from time to time. My DS needs watching properly or he'll nut himself on something in the house, he's a lovely boy but can't be left for five minutes!

tbh ap's dont tech exsist anymore (cant think what they are called)

i certainly wouldnt go to work and leave young children with a foreign/unexperienced girl

yes when they are older an ap(or whatever they are called now) are great but not left sole charge for 11hrs a day of young children

Didn't mean sole charge all day for an au pair, don't think HarrietTheSpy was suggesting that, just from school / nursery pick-up until we got home from work, which would still be about 2.5 hours for school even if less for nursery so still a no go. Think it would be OK when DC are 8 and 5 though but will see how things stand when the time comes.

Thanks for continued responses Blondes - did you have a view on whether the suggested nanny pay looks attractive? Not sure about the 65% level if nanny had own child, that was a bit of a guess based on other threads.

i think the pay looks good (I think it's about 12.4 gross/hour which I think is average in suburban London). YOu should be able to get someone experienced and maybe even qualified. Mine is experienced, not qualified and gets £12.1.

YOu're obv aware of employer NI but don't forget nanny food, outings, heating, sick pay, payroll cost, Ofsted reg cost (insurance, first aid, course etc) if appropriate.

Choose your nanny carefully, because the stress of dealing with a bad employee is far, far worse than the stress of picking up from nursery. Good luck!

I think it looks fair - but there's no set rule with taking your own child. Some nannies expect no reduction at all, others have anything from 60% to 80%.