I need HONEST opinions about my nanny please...

[Holly29]

I'd be really grateful for your input on this. I just want to do the right thing.

Background: I work F/T. I've had a nanny since DD was 9 months old. She is now 2.10. Initially we loved our nanny, and we have been exceptionally good to her in lots of ways, which I don't need to set out really.

However, I am now pregnant with DC2 and am due in about 4 months. I am lucky enough to have a DH who can afford for me to take 6 months off and still keep her on during that time. So that's what we have decided to do.

BUT the other day I realised that I am dreading maternity leave and being with her so much more. I sat down and made a list of the things she does which I worry about and I need your advice on whether these are silly and how I can/should address them. I want to be fair to her and to us and to do the right thing! so here's my list:

(1) She clearly is not capable of leaving any moods/tiredness behind her when she gets to work.

This was very evident when she had a bereavment in her family - which we totally understood of course. We gave her all the time off she needed of course but when she came back (after 6 weeks, her choice, we did not force her) she was still crying in front of our DD a lot, spending a lot of time on the phone to her friends and so on. She also has quite a lot of 'life crises' (what am I doing with my life?) and gets very depressed and she seems incapable of leaving it behind her when she gets to work and I spend lots of time at work wondering how her mood today is affecting DD. On a really quite large number of occasions I have come home to find her in a really bad mood because of something and she will often say that DD has been a nightmare and that she has found it hard to cope. She does not seem to find it hard to cope when she is feeling good. She clearly isn?t positive or fun to be with or particularly tolerant with DD when she is like this. She is great fun when she is feeling upbeat.

I am sure that I am not always positive/fun with DD when I am tired/stressed but I am not her nanny! Ideally I would like a nanny who of course may have bad times, but who is positive and fun most of the time (or at least fakes it well). I do at my own work!

(2) I have residual concerns about the way she disciplines DD. When I came home a few nights ago she was saying that she had behaved like a baby and had to be put in her cot for 20 minutes. When I was talking to her about it DD was clearly listening and distressed about it still and saying "I went into my cot like a baby". This happens quite regularly.

(3) I think we've been so nice to her that she is starting to take us for granted and as I said this morning, I am unsure that she will actually be a help when I am on maternity leave and with the new baby. She said to me a couple of weeks ago that I might want her to work reduced hours when the baby is born as I will be ?around all the time? ? I said no, but this is the sort of attitude which has me concerned.

(5) I still have concerns about whether she has actually formed a good bond with DD. I have spoken with a number of women who have nannies, all of whom say that their children love their nannies. DD only leaves us with great reulctance each morning. If I told DD that she?d never see our nanny again I?m sure she?d be fine with that;

(6) She?s not that good at actually engaging with DD. I come home every night almost to find her watching TV with her. She does switch it off but I have never seen her paint a picture with her, engage in any creative activities, or even read to her to be honest. There are never any books out despite the fact that DD has millions. I think they sometimes play games but it is rare. The reports we get in our special daily logbook never say ?we played X game or made something or dressed up ?. They go out to groups and places but there is no other interaction which I think is increasingly important, especially as DD obviously loves art/making things.

Yes, DD is our PFB. Am I being silly? How can I deal with it? I've never had another nanny and I hate confrontation!

Hi, I was a career nanny for 10 years up untill a month ago when I registered to be a childminder. I would NEVER even dream of doing that in any of the jobs I had. I know and have met quite a few nannies who are "only doing this because of the good money" So for your own peace of mind, and the mental health of your daughter, I would recommend giving her notice and moving on...Harsh as it sounds, she doesn't sound like she wants to be there anymore than you wanting her there. if she can tell you that your daughter was " a nightmare" all day, i cant imagine what has been going on behind closed doors. if I were you, i would use the maternaty leave as an excuse (if you really have too)

You are dreading being with her on your ML but didn't dread leaving your dd with her after the 'discipline'?
Is all this for real?

Frakk that's really helpful. I think I might have a chat with an employment lawyer if DH and I decide that trying to find someone else is the best thing.

I don't think I could make her want to leave if I tried. She is on a ridiculously good wage, has much more holiday than the norm and works short hours...

AArgh, I wish it was as easy as just 'giving notice and moving on' - will dig out contract tonight.

Lacquitar the 'discipline' was just a few days ago.

It has never been that bad (or at least she has never told me about it).

If it's not too nosy can I ask what wage/hours/how much holiday? I suspect that for her to refuse the revised MH job if you go down the redundancy route you'd have to try very hard!

Holly,
I have a nanny and my daughter is 2.10 so a little bit older than yours.
I have to say, to me personally the most important thing about my nanny is the way she interacts with my DD.
My nanny is not the best when it comes to tidying things up and that kind of thing but that becomes insignificant when I see the way she is with my DD and it is clearly not only when we, the parents, are around. Our nanny has been with us for 10 months now and in that time the two of them have developed such a sweet loving relationship that it sometimes makes me cry (yes I know). I am dreading the day she will leave.
Sorry to gush but what I am trying to say is that if you trust someone else to look after your child then you must be happy with the way they interact with them and you don't seem to be. Sounds like it's time to think about alternatives (whilst acting within the law of course)
Good luck

Just a quick point on the employment law angle...

The nanny doesn't get first refusal on any jobs you create within three months.

She has the right to be offered any jobs you have at the time of the redundancy (i.e. current vacancies). She potentially has the right to be offered a definite future position (not under the legislation, but in terms of fairness). Once you have made her redundant, she does not have the right to any vacancies you subsequently decide to create.

So, if you make no decision about the mothers help for now, put it on hold and decide after your baby is born that you want someone, that's fine, she has no automatic right to be offered the position.

The reason people sometimes talk about three months is that that's the time limit for filing an unfair dismissal claim. If you advertise again during this time, she could argue that the redundancy was a sham and you had the new position planned. However, that can be rebutted by showing that you hadn't and were waiting to see how things went...

Does the first refusal only apply to pregnant employees then? Or those on maternity leave?

I ask because I know someone who won a claim that her old job was being readvertised - she was made redundant on ML - and the ruling was that she should have been contacted and offered the job as it was within (I think) 3 months of her being made redundant. I don't know how the timing went but it was probably only just in the 3 month window for brining a claim.

I'm not a lawyer though so am happy to defer!

But you definitely can't change the job description and say she's redundant so you can employ a mother's help because I know you have to offer her any alternative position which exists or will exist before she leaves.

Ribena I actually love you. Thank you for all your support and help today. I can't believe how fab Mumsnet is and how much time people give up to help others. Hope I can return the favour one day.

I am off home now. But thanks again to everyone. I will update you!

I get you know, mold. Thanks for the explanation.

Frakkin - Um, well the short answer is that there isn't a specific three month rule for anyone.

Your friend's case sounds like it was one of two things. Either the judge thought that the redundancy was a sham and so wasn't fair in the first place (i.e. there never was a redundancy situation. They always planned to readvertise).

Or, the more tricksy one. There is a weird rule about the right to return at the end of maternity leave. It doesn't tally up easily with the rules on redundancy. So, there is an argument that someone on maternity leave can be made redundant and still turn up at the end of maternity leave and demand to be given a suitable equivalent position if there is one available. If you friend was still within what would have been her maternity leave period when that advert went out, it's possible that she should have been offered the job even if she had been dismissed.

You are totally right about positions which exisit or will exist.

Holly - no worries. You could answer my thread here if you have a minute some time! Trying to gather opinions!

The situation doesn't sound great, and I do agree that a new nanny is probably in order.

However, my main concern would be the crying. I have PND and struggle at times when my DH is away. I try so hard not to cry in front of my DSs because it really really upsets them. So yes, the nanny should be hiding these feelings for the sake of your DD. She can't be expected to understand why your nanny is upset, so really, crying in her role is worse than crying in an office.

It's but I wouldn't want my children to be cared for by anyone who was regularly upset in front of them. And if you're feeling rubbish, caring for children does feel much more of an uphill struggle, but I remind myself that I wouldn't be bothered by their behaviour if I was having a good day, so I can't be cross with them just because I'm having a bad day. If your nanny can't do that, then she isn't (IMO) suitable for the job.

I'm a nanny and I find that if I've got horrible things going on in my personal life then the kids actually cheer me up. I might feel drained and teary when I walk in the door but by the time I've had a cuddle and plaited hair and tried to answer questions like "how many hairs are there on that cat?" then I'm grateful to be taken out of myself. I adore the girls I look after, yours deserves the same.

know now

i am a nanny to a 2 yr old and been with him since he was 1 month old and had to help mum and baby get healthy mum went back when he was 5 months and we get on great and have conversations every night about day and even send her pictures of anything exciting whilst she at work. we are on art book 2 now we attend two classes,we go pottery cafe and get messy and made mum a cup for mothers day, we stick and get covered in paint we also do playdates and we love baking new treats which his parents come home and share, we read 3 books with milk and allowed to watch one thomas show. we made a house and train out of a cardboard box. in morning g runs from kitchen to give me cuddle and pulls me to have breakfast with him and every night i get a hug and kiss and wave at door. if she been with you since dd1 was a baby you would think she have a similar bond with child. i used the bottom step for 2 min then a sorry and hug when done something wrong 20 mins is far too long and neglect and child won t remember why they are there i be really upset and so would my boss if i did that. we did baking vegetable car and truck pancakes and peach ones for picnic today and then a class a long walk around regent park swiss cottage and primrose hill and back to regent park when he woke up feed ducks played in playground and then had friend back to play then have tea together then bath story and bed. children need to be creative to learn and develop skills and senses. think she taking it easy as i cook and freeze fresh meals and puds for g and cook three out of five nights do all laundry and beds (5 bed house) and light house work cleaner comes on day a week .

Have only read the fist few posts, I agree you do need to chat and possibly let her go if she is not prepared to improve.

On your 1st point tho, please, please go easy on her and perhaps not even mention the bereavement problem. Bereavement is such a personal thing.

I had such an insensitive employer while going thru a very close family loss, that made things 100x worse for me.

Bringing up the grief is the last thing she needs, this is a totally seperate issue.

Bereavement aside ...

I do arts and crafts with my minded children nearly every day. The parents of an 8 month old in my care arrived early today, to find her covered in glue .... I asked them how else she was supposed to make a mothers day card . They didn't mind.

If I am feeling blue in the morning, the children's innocent smiling faces can always cheer me up. I love being with them and you need a nanny who loves to be with your child(ren).

I'm a nanny too, and I would get rid. First and foremost I think a nanny should allow the parents to go to work confident that their child is fine - the fact that you worry how your child is says to me she's not the right nanny for you.

As for letting your personal life affect your work - obviously a bereavement is terrible to cope with, but some jobs you do just have to seperate your work and private life.

A 20 minute time out for a 2 year old is just ridiculous - has she ever worked with toddlers before?

However much a child loves their nanny, they will always want to be with their parents more so may be reluctant to leave you - but I've never had a child I didn't build a really good bond with within a few months.

Holly - Please get rid of her! I think redundancy is the best option TBH and you could hire a cleaner for a couple of months instead while you look after the children, and then look for a new Nanny. Try not to see it as being so stressfull. Maybe register with a Nanny agency so they will sort it out for you, you just need to do the interviews. But if you make sure you know what you want, and write it all down for the nannys who come for an interview. Make sure you are 100% happy with the nanny before you agree to employ one. As a childcarer myself, I always find if I have a relaxed meeting rather than an "interview" I am much more likely to be myself and there fore you would get a better idea of what they are really like.

I have to say, I would be expecting her to be taking her out most days, to do activities most days, and not bring her personal life into work. I wouldn't bring up the grief issue though. But the leaving her in the cot for 20 mins!? That is not right. And I can't believe you have never had a picture or anything! My DD1 is 2.2 and is always doing crafty things at home, and I have a 10 month old as well to look after, and a house to keep. If all she has to do is look after one child then there is no excuse for not doing things with her.

She sounds like an awful nanny and she definatly needs to go.

If you had a cleaner come every day to do the housework for you, do you think you can manage without a Nanny for a while? And then get a new Nanny about a month or so before you go back to work?

What area are you in? Somebody on here might be able to help?

i am fairly sure that you will cope just fine with some domestic staff, and f you make the nanny redundant you can afford to outsource quite a lot of housekeeping duties.

then, at the end of your maternity leave, you can advertise for another nanny.

She sounds like a nightmare, why don't you just fire her and look after your own kids hire a replacement.

It sounds like you're at the perfect time to do this - as someone upthread said, you'll be there for a while and able to ease in a new nanny. And you being at home serves as a great excuse for getting rid of this one.

(Also, yes, get someone in to help with the domestic chores while you do the babymoon/playing with toddler stuff)

You don't need any more opinions, it sounds like, but I'd get rid as well. TV always being on would be a dealbreaker even if the rest of it wasn't. If my childcare, who deal with 5 children to each carer, can send my one year old home with a homemade Christmas card, and if I, trying to get the week's household chores done in my two days a week at home with my girl, can bake and take her to a park, and not turn the TV on, then a dedicated nanny should really be doing something more than she is.

if you are not 100% happy then get rid of your nanny

20mins time out for a 2years and in bed is not acceptable

i am not a very crafty nanny, thats my down point if when asked at an interview what are your negative points

im happy to do it,but am useless with ideas, so we just paint, playdough and junk model

if i dont pick up mb from station then all 5 (3 kids,me and dog) of us are sitting down watching tv after a bath (dog not bathed lol) as quite time before bed

I wonder if the 20 minute timeout in the cot could be construed as child neglect/cruelty and thus instant dismissal? It's a bit drastic I know but if someone put my wailing distressed 2 year old (not that I have one mind) in their cot for 20 minutes (and it might have been longer, who knows???) then I would hit the roof! Sounds like your nanny is unable to handle toddlers appropriately, and is therefore not a suitable candidate any more for the job you are offering. There must be a legal way to get rid, sharpish!